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1996 225hp V6 starts and will keep running only w primer bulb being pushed

O

OceanPro1996

Member
1. New oem fuel pump bought and replaced.
2. Powerpack replaced.
3. Primer solenoid replaced.
4. All hoses from fuelpump to tank replaced.
5. New pickup line and check valve on there way.
6. Fuel tank cleaned out and is breathing.
7. All carburators rebuilt. 3 of the 6 with new gaskets other 3 with the best of the gaskets left. Opening up throttle and butterfly valves at linkage also kept engine running longer.
8. Engine was being run from previous owner without thermostats. When i replaced them with new ones the boat would still start very nicely but would cut off much quicker than when they were not there. New fuelpump is being evaluated now to see if its the problem. I plan on taking out the thermostats when I get fuel pump back. Not sure what to do next? I have sunk a huge amount of money trying to fix this problem with very little results. Please help me if you have any tips of what I need to do and/or you can explain the problem with the thermostats.

I eagerly wait for your suggestions!
 
OceanPro1996 said:
8. Engine was being run from previous owner without thermostats. When i replaced them with new ones the boat would still start very nicely but would cut off much quicker than when they were not there. New fuelpump is being evaluated now to see if its the problem. I plan on taking out the thermostats when I get fuel pump back. Not sure what to do next? I have sunk a huge amount of money trying to fix this problem with very little results. Please help me if you have any tips of what I need to do and/or you can explain the problem with the thermostats.

I eagerly wait for your suggestions!
Click to expand...
So help me understand the problem. You say the engine will only run when you pump the primer bulb. But, then you say the engine will 'cut off' when the thermostats are installed. What exactly does 'cut off' mean?

Have you tested the primer bulb to see if the check valve is functioning properly? The need to pump the primer bulb to make an engine run means you have a fuel delivery problem and should have nothing that directly is effected by the thermostats.

Have you installed a new water pump? What does the stream look like from the water indicator? Is your vacuum sensor installed and functioning properly?

KJ
 
If the engine runs "Only" with the key pushed in (Engaging the Fuel Primer Solenoid function), that allows the fuel to bypass all of the carburetors... in which case, the carburetors were not rebuilt properly, the floats are not adjusted properly, the floats are upside down, the jets were not cleaned properly or installed improperly... something! Fuel is either NOT flowing into the float chambers OR is NOT flowing through the carburetor fuel passageways.

Double check the carburetors.
 
Have to have t-stats for Quickstart to work properly. Without stats that motor runs a high percentage of cold seizure or scuffing as it a closed deck block.
 
The fuel pump runs with crankase compression pulses.-----Look into issues with crankcase compression.-----Lot of money spent on new parts.----- I would say you have lots of good spares on hand now.
 
kevinj said:
So help me understand the problem. You say the engine will only run when you pump the primer bulb. But, then you say the engine will 'cut off' when the thermostats are installed. What exactly does 'cut off' mean?

Kevin, the engine starts but only runs for a short period of time before it cuts off with the thermostats in. With the thermostats out it starts and will keep running if I keep pushing the primer bulb.

Have you tested the primer bulb to see if the check valve is functioning properly? Yes it is brand new and seems to be functioning properly.

The need to pump the primer bulb to make an engine run means you have a fuel delivery problem and should have nothing that directly is effected by the thermostats. I know but this is what is happening.

Have you installed a new water pump? What does the stream look like from the water indicator? No i havent put in water pump but it is pissing water out. Is your vacuum sensor installed and functioning properly? No After you asked this i looked closely and i must have broken off one of the electrical connections while working on the fuel pump. Can this be causing the whole problem?

thankyou so much for your help!
Click to expand...
 
I checked compression but i think i did incorrectly based on other posts. Before I bought it i pulled out each sparkplug and tried to start engine with one in and all were very close 70-90 but i cant remember exactly.
Do you have a good reference to how to check compression properly? I really hope I h
 
Sorry to ask more questions, but do you have a water pressure gauge on the boat? If so, what does it read? The thermostat (T-stat) issue seems like you might not be generating enough pressure to keep the cooling system filled and flowing well. I know you said your indicator has a stream, but it doesn't mean your water pump is in top shape. Water pumps are under $70 and is good insurance if you don't know the age of the current pump. The fact the previous owner removed the T-stats tells me they took the cheap route to deal with a problem. I'd suggest a new water pump and install new thermostats in the engine so it's all correct.

OEM Water pump on Marine Engine: http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=OMC5001595

On the broken vacuum switch wire I'm not sure that will be the cause of this problem. I don't know if the switch is normally open or normally closed, but I would think this would be causing some kind of alarm if there was a broken wire. Whether or not this is the problem you should fix the wire.

You should have all spark plugs removed to test compression. There is no need to try and run the engine to do this. Pull the plugs, make sure the battery is fully charged, then install the compression gauge in each cylinder one by one and crank for about 10-15 seconds or until you see the gauge max out. Throttle position doesn't matter so you can have it at idle position.

I'm starting to wonder if you either have a bad diaphragm in the fuel pump or the cylinder driving the pump is low on compression and it's not pulling enough fuel for the engine.
 
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Kevin,
Thank you for your help. I will wait for fuel pump diagnostic assesment. Then install if it was faulty. If not I will try the compression testing. Exactly as you have described. I will worry about vacuum switch later. Hopefully after the $&@$&$& boat starts and runs for an extended time.

i am greatly indebted to you. I will probably have more questions later. Is it better to start over or continue here?

thanks again
 
Ok I did all of that and i got answer back from evinrude that the fuel pump was bad. So, I

installed new oem non vro style pump recomended for this engine and even worse reponse. Engine starts breifly then stalls.
I adjusted and checked all my carbs again and nothing better. I put all carbs back to 0 then started up 1/2 turn open at a time. Then woukd follow exact same procedure. Best at 4 1/2 turns out but I adjusted all carbs together. Still same result though short run then stall. Did a little better if i opened manual choke.
Primer bulb is tight but then goes soft after stall. It holds hard no leaks.
I got desperate and hooked up johnboat tank to it and got same result. I already replaced all hoses etc back to tank including puckup and check valve.

please help not sure where to go from here?
 
I hope because you are not using the vro system. That your mixing your gas and oil at least 50:1. It sounds like the idle circuit is plugged. If you have to use the primer to keep it running. Pull the low speed jets out and look inside to see if they are plugged. I've seen many a time. Clean the carbs. Only to find out the fuel line from the tank to the engine was just as contaminated as the float bowls
 
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A bad fuel pump and then a new fuel pump and the motor still runs the same.------The fuel pump is driven by a positive pressure pulse and a slight negative pulse.----Look for issues with crankcase compression here.
 
Makes no $en$e-----Somebody said the fuel pump was bad and now with a big $$ new pump it still does not run properly.----What shop said your pump was bad ??
 
racerone said:
Makes no $en$e-----Somebody said the fuel pump was bad and now with a big $$ new pump it still does not run properly.----What shop said your pump was bad ??
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It was done by evinrude. Took them about a month. Now my mechanic says stator and timing sensor are both bad. Another 1000 repair. Really disgusted with buying it.
 
A $20 meter allows you to test / inspect those components.------Time to learn.----Hard to believe that both items are bad.------Tough to find good help these days.-----And who sent this pump to Evinrude to have it checked.------Something smells on this saga !
 
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racerone said:
A $20 meter allows you to test / inspect those components.------Time to learn.----Hard to believe that both items are bad.------Tough to find good help these days.-----And who sent this pump to Evinrude to have it checked?------Something smells on this saga !
Click to expand...

Ditto! Really hate to criticize anyone but I'm wondering how your mechanic came to that conclusion. If battery voltage was thrown at both those items, yeah, that would cause damage... BUT... I've never encountered that situation.

Racerone has a point when he states.... "Time to learn".
 
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racerone said:
A $20 meter allows you to test / inspect those components.------Time to learn.----Hard to believe that both items are bad.------Tough to find good help these days.-----And who sent this pump to Evinrude to have it checked.------Something smells on this saga !
Click to expand...

That was my concern also. Why would both be bad at the same time. I returned the part to marineengine.com and they sent to manufacturer and we waited a month for them to tell me it was defective but without specifics as to why it was defective. I hoped it would be that easy but it definitely wasnt.

Mechanic said timer base was definitely bad bc he wasnt getting any readings from it. I dont know what he meant by this. He also stated that the readings coming off the stator were not what they should be either.

i dont know what to think or do from here?
 
Ok another update to the already major problems. I asked the mechanic to check the compression. He said all were near 120 lbs but 1 was down at 105 lbs. Could this be causing lack of firing? I dont think so but the more I try and learn the stupider I am becoming as far as problem is getting worse not better
 
Thankyou. I have been using 50:1 and i removed all fuel from tank and put in new pickup check valve line and primer bulb. I also have pulled the pins on al all of the low speed idle pins and cleared but I will do again to be sure. But i did not replace the gasket on the side of the trottle body on both banks only one side. I also did not remove the entire trottle body as i saw in the service manual. Is this needed?
 
OceanPro1996 said:
1. New oem fuel pump bought and replaced.
2. Powerpack replaced.
3. Primer solenoid replaced.
4. All hoses from fuelpump to tank replaced.
5. New pickup line and check valve on there way.
6. Fuel tank cleaned out and is breathing.
7. All carburators rebuilt. 3 of the 6 with new gaskets other 3 with the best of the gaskets left. Opening up throttle and butterfly valves at linkage also kept engine running longer.
8. Engine was being run from previous owner without thermostats. When i replaced them with new ones the boat would still start very nicely but would cut off much quicker than when they were not there. New fuelpump is being evaluated now to see if its the problem. I plan on taking out the thermostats when I get fuel pump back. Not sure what to do next? I have sunk a huge amount of money trying to fix this problem with very little results. Please help me if you have any tips of what I need to do and/or you can explain the problem with the thermostats.

I eagerly wait for your suggestions!
Click to expand...

9. Put new fuel pump vro nonoiling type instead of original. Still wont start.

10. Mexhanic now says stator and timing base both need to be replaced. He also found that one cylinder isn’t getting nearly as good of compression. 1 is like 105 and all others are like 120lbs.

should I take a chance buying more electronic stuff. Cost is $680 for both plus $160 labor to put them on.

shoukd I do this not knowong why the commpression is a like 20% lower on that o e cylinder?
 
OceanPro1996 said:
9. Put new fuel pump vro nonoiling type instead of original. Still wont start.

10. Mexhanic now says stator and timing base both need to be replaced. He also found that one cylinder isn’t getting nearly as good of compression. 1 is like 105 and all others are like 120lbs.

should I take a chance buying more electronic stuff. Cost is $680 for both plus $160 labor to put them on.

shoukd I do this not knowong why the commpression is a like 20% lower on that o e cylinder?
Click to expand...

He replaced the stator and the timing base and found that the keyway was also busted. After “fixing” these problems we are now back to where i began. I have a motor that will start and run only if I keep pumping the primer bulb. It cant seem to get enough fuel?
 
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