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350MPI - Black Scorpion Base Engine?

2000_Tige

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I have a 2000 Tige with a 350MPI Black Scorpion (330hp) and I need to get parts to rebuild it, but a lot of the stuff is no longer available from Mercruiser like a gasket set. Does anyone know what Chevy engine this is based on? It looks like the Vortec truck engines are similar from that year but I'm not sure. The serial number on the engine is 0L391533.

Thanks,
Scott
 
""When MerCruiser introduced its new direct-drive ski engine that it calls the Black Scorpion, the new V8 created such a stinging impact that some industry experts felt that it might be an impostor. What was being labeled as a small-block 350-cu.in. engine was apparently pumping out big-block performance. While 350cu.-in. V8s have been stalwart performers in the ski-boat market for some time, no one engine has ever blasted so far ahead of the pack so fast. Compared to the sibling 350s in MerCruiser's lineup, which top out at 290 horsepower, the Black Scorpion boasts 25 more ponies, m&king 315 horsepower at 5000 rpm. The bottom line is 3- to 7-mph better performance, with better fuel economy to boot.

New generation engine

The controversy was put to rest when inquisitive wrenchers dismantled the Black Scorpion and put their micrometers to it. They discovered that the size was indeed 350 cu. in. What's more, they found themselves staring inside a new-generation 350 created by General Motors. ********""""

https://www.google.com/search?clien...S-cjgAhWmdd8KHft5BIMQBQgrKAA&biw=1280&bih=662
 
I have a 2000 Tige with a 350MPI Black Scorpion (330hp) and I need to get parts to rebuild it, but a lot of the stuff is no longer available from Mercruiser like a gasket set. Does anyone know what Chevy engine this is based on?

It looks like the Vortec truck engines are similar from that year but I'm not sure. The serial number on the engine is 0L391533.

Thanks,
Scott


Scott, a few things to note:

While some of the Merc (OEM) parts may no longer be available, correct replacement parts will indeed be available through other suppliers.

From Crowley Marine regarding pistons for the 350 MPI Black Scorpion:
"This product is not being produced anymore, however may still be available through other dealers."

Keith Black, Wiseco, SRP and an array of other piston manufactures can provide the correct pistons for this engine.

When you tear this engine down, you will see which piston profile was used.
I have my suspicions that they used the GM Full Dished pistons.
If so, I would strongly suggest that you NOT go back together with the GM Full Dished pistons (no Q/E is possible with this piston profile).

Once you have it torn down, please post a few photos for us.


If this engine is fitted with Closed Cooling system, you can use a high grade automotive head gasket set..... (of the correct compressed gasket thickness).

If it is Raw Water cooled, then you will want to use a true Marine Head Gasket set.......
(of the correct compressed gasket thickness).


The Roller cam and roller cam followers will very likely be re-usable.
( they will typically go 200K miles in a car/truck SBC)



.
 
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If you follow the link above and see what the prices are for rebuild parts you will have a heart attack. Probably a $6000-8000 bill for parts and labor on this. You have other options...finance a repower package through your local Mercruiser dealer (you get new technology and a warranty), buy a standard replacement GM 350 crate engine and swap your external parts over, find another complete running take out and replace with that, or buy another boat.
 
Thanks for the input gents,
Some more details of the engine: It has 997 hours on it, and one of the exhaust manifolds went bad and filled one bank of pistons with water. (It is raw water cooled.) It hydro-locked and wouldn't crank over the last time I went to fire it up but it was running good up until then. I've torn the engine down and it looks pretty good on the inside. Bearings show little wear, cam and lifters look good, pistons are good... There was a little blue smoke on startup, so my plan was to get the heads reworked and just put new rings, bearings and oil pump in it. Plus some new manifolds:mad:. I'm only planning on keeping her for maybe another year before I upgrade to a newer boat.
I'm doing the work at my cousins place in the country so I'll get some pics to post the next time I get back out there.
Thanks,
Scott
 
Just a baby still at a thousand hours. That's like having 40,000 miles on your car. If it were me, I'd just put it all back together with new standard bearings, send out the heads for rebuild, and bolt it all back together when the heads come back. Others may scold me but I would not bother with new rings....unless it's too late....

PS hydrolocked engine you just take out the plugs and spin it on the starter until it stops hacking up water. Then put the plugs in, start it and get it hot. After that do at least two oil changes. Blue smoke? fagaddabowdit! run it!!!
 
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...............
................. I've torn the engine down and it looks pretty good on the inside. Bearings show little wear, cam and lifters look good, pistons are good... There was a little blue smoke on startup, so my plan was to get the heads reworked and just put new rings, bearings and oil pump in it.
You will want to lightly hone the cylinder walls creating the correct cross/hatch angle.
Consult with an expert regarding piston ring material that will best suit what you are doing.


I'm doing the work at my cousins place in the country so I'll get some pics to post the next time I get back out there.
I am curious as to the piston deck profile for this Black Scorpion engine.
 
Scott, I would also be interested in seeing what your pistons look like.

I would especially like to see the pistons in Quenchmaster Rick's 5.7s. Probably OEM deep dish.

Here is one of mine, not OEM.

20190222_152356.jpg
 
I prefer thin crust to deep dish any day!!

I would also say, what ever it came with when new worked, just sayin............

Someone can always build a better mouse trap..............But is it needed?
 
Scott, if you are still with us...... please post a few photos of the engine tear down.... in particular the piston decks.
I am just curious as to what Merc spec'd out for this engine!



I would especially like to see the pistons in Quenchmaster Rick's 5.7s. Probably OEM deep dish.

Well..... I'm not inclined to pull a cylinder head, or video record a bore-scope viewing.






I began working with the SBC engines in the mid 60s. To date, I have NEVER built a SBC engine using that silly, no good, detonation prone, goofy double-valve-relief GM Full Dished piston that was introduced in the early 70s!


GM, as well as the low performance SBC engine builders/suppliers, use this piston profile today because:

.......... one piston p/n fits all 8 bores.

.......... the technician can be having a cocktail and watching a movie while installing them onto the connecting rods.

.......... the technician installing the piston/rod combo into the cylinder block can also
be having a cocktail and watching a movie.


 

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Scott, I would also be interested in seeing what your pistons look like.

I would especially like to see the pistons in Quenchmaster Rick's 5.7s. Probably OEM deep dish.

Here is one of mine, not OEM.

View attachment 19594

So Mcomm,

What was your Quench?

I know on one of my engines it is .032", Forged 8cc domed with valve relief, .030 5 layer o-ringed hd gasket. Similar but slightly different profile.

Had the heads off a while back (for a specific non maintenance reason) and the burn area was ~1/4 inch from edge all the way around. Perfect for the head/chamber set up
 
Hey Guys,
Sorry for going radio silent. Too much other life stuff going on, but I finally made it back out to the shop to get some pics for ya. The pistons have the dished, double valve relief tops. They leave a lot of casting marks in the top. It is not clean at all. A far cry from the nice ones rick posted above.
View attachment 19692View attachment 19693View attachment 19694View attachment 19695IMG_1692.jpg

I still have to figure out what I have to get as far as bearing and rings.
 
Hey Guys,
Sorry for going radio silent. Too much other life stuff going on, but I finally made it back out to the shop to get some pics for ya.
The pistons have the dished, double valve relief tops.

They leave a lot of casting marks in the top. It is not clean at all. A far cry from the nice ones rick posted above.
View attachment 19692View attachment 19693View attachment 19694View attachment 19695View attachment 19696

I still have to figure out what I have to get as far as bearing and rings.

According to the website, your attachments are invalid.>>>>> Attachment 19692Attachment 19693Attachment 19694Attachment 19695

Other than flat tops...... a quench style SBC piston will not have double valve reliefs.
Can you post a few pics of the piston decks?
 
Well....... unfortunately those are the dreaded GM Full Dished pistons!
I’m not sure why Merc toubts their Black Scorpion as being something special with that piston profile!

You can do much better with a different selection.
Well, they must have had their reasons! I doubt Mercruiser went to GM and asked them for an engine with crappy performance.
 
I've been doing more research online for 5.7L Vortec tear-downs and I can't find any difference between the Mercury motor and the standard Chevy 5.7L Vortec. The piston decks are the same. You can see all of the same casting marks in the Vortec that are in mine. Cylinder heads looks the same. I know there could be differences in cylinder head volume or something I'm missing. But I can say the Mercury motor is based on the Vortec.
Scott
 
There will be unseen differences. The formulation of the iron used in casting the block and heads is probably higher in nickel. The castings will be hand selected for quality assurance. The crankshaft is probably forged. The exhaust valves are sodium filled. Lots of stuff like that.
 
There will be unseen differences. The formulation of the iron used in casting the block and heads is probably higher in nickel. The castings will be hand selected for quality assurance. The crankshaft is probably forged. The exhaust valves are sodium filled. Lots of stuff like that.

All of that could be true. I started this thread looking for what the Mercury engine was based from. I'm not going to pay $550 for a Mercury gasket set when its just an SBC. Just thought it might help others who are in the same situation I'm in.
Scott
 
My understanding is,

The base marine 350 (in this case) is nothing more than a standard (typically) heavy duty or not, Truck block. Higher torque at lower RPM based on cam profile.

Marine goes down one line with specific gasket sets, core plugs, water pumps (marine are bi-directional), cast iron manifolds, flywheels, oil pumps (marine are brazed at the pick up tube) and specific oil pans, wind-age trays at the crank (thus special main cap bolts to support the wind-age trays) and associated gaskets and possible a couple other little things, the other line of engines go into trucks.

So the SHORT BLOCK engines are identical and all parts are interchangeable Marine and non marine. With the exception of gaskets and core plugs.

Typically a short block does not come with Intakes, water pumps, oil pans or oil pumps. Only an assembled block and heads.


So when they come out with a "higher performance model" it would typically have a different cam if higher than say 20 - 30 hp above base and a different fuel curve (re-calibrated carb) and/or timing. For EFI it is strictly fuel curves and timing that are changed with the same base block.

Base being 260 hp in this case

20 - 30 hp only above base, timing and fuel are changed only and maybe the intake but I forget now,

Back in the prior years when they were using the non vortec 350 the difference between the standard (260 hp) and the 350 mag (270-290 hp) was only intake I think, (Slightly higher profile) and carb calibration and timing in some cases,

The timing module (carbed versions) would have a slightly different timing curve and a higher advance ( example: 22* of advance which gave a total of 30* standard and 24-26* of advance, 32 -34* total for higher HP.
I did the research on parts between both and all internal engine block parts were the same.


As far as gaskets sets, Go to a Napa and order a marine engine gasket kit for your Votec block. High quality Fellpro gaskets.......!!
 
My understanding is,

The base marine 350 (in this case) is nothing more than a standard (typically) heavy duty or not, Truck block. Higher torque at lower RPM based on cam profile.

Marine goes down one line with specific gasket sets, core plugs, water pumps (marine are bi-directional), cast iron manifolds, flywheels, oil pumps (marine are brazed at the pick up tube) and specific oil pans, wind-age trays at the crank (thus special main cap bolts to support the wind-age trays) and associated gaskets and possible a couple other little things, the other line of engines go into trucks.

So the SHORT BLOCK engines are identical and all parts are interchangeable Marine and non marine. With the exception of gaskets and core plugs.

Typically a short block does not come with Intakes, water pumps, oil pans or oil pumps. Only an assembled block and heads.


So when they come out with a "higher performance model" it would typically have a different cam if higher than say 20 - 30 hp above base and a different fuel curve (re-calibrated carb) and/or timing. For EFI it is strictly fuel curves and timing that are changed with the same base block.

Base being 260 hp in this case

20 - 30 hp only above base, timing and fuel are changed only and maybe the intake but I forget now,

Back in the prior years when they were using the non vortec 350 the difference between the standard (260 hp) and the 350 mag (270-290 hp) was only intake I think, (Slightly higher profile) and carb calibration and timing in some cases,

The timing module (carbed versions) would have a slightly different timing curve and a higher advance ( example: 22* of advance which gave a total of 30* standard and 24-26* of advance, 32 -34* total for higher HP.
I did the research on parts between both and all internal engine block parts were the same.


As far as gaskets sets, Go to a Napa and order a marine engine gasket kit for your Votec block. High quality Fellpro gaskets.......!!

Thanks Jack! That is helpful.
 
Oh and as far as "THE EXPERT" opinion on pistons...................

It worked and has worked for years................Why F with a known good thing!


If you change them to a different profile it may require a bit more head work or other slight changes.

Buy the OEM if you need to (most likely a standard size) and can be purchased anywhere. Order the correct rings with the pistons and remove the ridge in the cylinders and do a or get a good simple hone and reassemble. Off to the races!

If not replacing pistons then a new set of rings, good hone, remove ridge, new bearings and have the heads gone thru. blue smoke on start up usually means valve seals or guides, so do that right!
 
Scott, take a few minutes and read this thread beginning at post #7!
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?394668-V6-to-V8-engine-swap

Take a look at the images that I’ve included as to help explain!


A few things to observe re; the previous comments:

.... ignition advance numbers (in degrees) are meaningless without an associated RPM.
In other words..... we cannot suggest 32° or 34° without also mentioning the RPM at which this should occur!

.... the GM full dished pistons cannot possibly provide a quench effect. It is and has been a poor choice for a Marine SBC engine!!!!

.... if this engine will be fitted with a closed cooling system, you can safely use a high performance automotive head gasket set.

.... if you plan to reuse your existing pistons, have a machinist measure the cylinder bores and your pistons.

.... changing to a good Q/E piston does not require cylinder head work!




If you have no concerns for more torque and/or performance, then by all means go back together as she was!


.
 
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