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1989 15 hp Johnson with no spark

P

Partee217

Member
It was running fine down the river then just sputtered out and hasn’t produced a spark since. I ordered a new power pack ( under the flywheel type because that’s what it had instead of the conversion type). Used a business card for the .02 spacing, but still no spark. Unplugged the kill switch wires to insure nothing was being grounded, no spark. Please help!
 
Check the ohm readings of the driver coil and the timing sensor as per your service manual.

Make sure none of the wires are grounding out due to vibration, whatever.

I don't know what the ohm readings should be... you'll need to look them up
 
I checked the voltage coming to each coil pack yesterday, seemed a little low but I will have to look up what they should be producing.
I completely disconnected the kill wires. My next move is to replace each wire or clean the connector one at a time to ensure nothing is grounding and having good connection to its post.

Its electric and pull rope. The electric drains the new battery down after a few attempts, which doesn’t seem right to me.
 
If that "new" battery is fully charged... and it dies (goes dead) after a few attempts... I'd strongly suggest you take it back to wherever you purchased it. However, you're speaking in generalities... it would help to know exactly what a "few attempts" consists of.

Cranking the engine with the electric starter.... Do Not exceed a 20 second run of the starter... best to let it cool a bit, then try again. Exceeding a 20 second run is chancing to have the solder of the armature commutator area to melt.

If when connecting the battery, there is any kind of sparking, and especially if that engine has a battery charging system, the rectifier is probably blown (shorted to ground) and will require replacing as that causes a constant voltage drain to the battery.

Is it that you don't have a ohm meter or you feel that checking the two components I mentioned isn't necessary?
 
A few as in 3 or 4. The battery is a deep cycle marine start. I only run the starter for 10 to 15 seconds max. The ohms were .065 on both wires going to each coil pack. The voltage coming to them was around .17. Am I testing the timing sensor during the coil test? Because it was alternating on readings.
 
If you have to crank foe 15 seconds there is something wrong with the motor or your procedure for starting it !!
 
Between Joe and Racer, you will get this fixed. Probably our top techs here. I figured it was electric start. Have you done a spark test with both plugs out, using the pull rope and not the electric starter?
 
I have not done it with both plugs out. Only one at a time. Neither had a spark so I bought the new power pack (still have the older one). I pull rope it majority of the time because I can get a faster rotation on the flywheel than with the electric starter.

Would yall say that it has to be grounding out somewhere and is there anyway I can figure out where it is without replacing everything.

PS. I am a pretty detail oriented guy, so if you ask me a question please be specific so I can answer it the way you need to help me out. Thanks
 
No, you can do one at a time. Sounds like your electric start motor is drawing way too much current.
 
Your electric starter has nothing to do with spark on that motor. Go to CDI electronics for the testing procedure for your ignition. Your ignition module is unique because the pickup,driver coil and ignition module are one piece. Does the spark jump a 7/16" air gap. Have you tested the coils? Are the amphenol connectors tight and everything making a good connection? To do the spark test put the tester in one wire and leave the plug in the other wire.
 
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The electric start is nice but, yes, the motor has to work otherwise the starter means nothing. I have gone to CSIelectronics.com but haven’t found the right page to help. There is no spark. I have tested the coils with a volt/ ohm meter but didn’t know what I was looking for. Amphenol connectors, I’ll have to look that up to know what that is.
 
timguy said:
Mr. Scott, if it doesn't turn fast enough, it will have weak spark.
Click to expand...
The op says nothing about weak spark. Those motors do not need to turn very fast to have good spark and there is always the recoil starter as back up. Look at the connector.on the kill switch wires to make it is in good condition. Have you done a continuity test on the kill switch? Did you get the upgraded cdi with the rubber pad? Is this an aftermarket or factory ignition?
 
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Okay, Mr. Scott. I am sorry. I'll take my advice to I Boats, where I might get some respect. Have a good evening, sir.
 
timguy said:
Okay, Mr. Scott. I am sorry. I'll take my advice to I Boats, where I might get some respect. Have a good evening, sir.
Click to expand...

To the OP have you done a compression test? Is the flywheel key in good condition.


Good luck maybe everyone there will agree with you.
 
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Have not done a continuity test on the kill switch, just disconnected it. Have not done a compression test either. It was running but then quit producing a spark. I’m trying to figure out why it’s not sparking, I don’t mind using the pull rope. I ordered the cdi with the same numbers as the old one.
I’m not worried about the starter or if my “new” battery needs to be returned.
From my understanding of the ignition system on an outboard is make sure the flywheel magnets are good with correct spacing from the stator and cdi. Both coil packs are transmitting power to the spark plugs (brand new) and the only time it’s grounded is where the plugs screw into the block or if I press the kill switch. Am I missing anything?
 
I talked to a guy last night who said that if I hit something and knocked the flywheel key out even just a little bit that it would screw up the timing. But wouldn’t it still produce some spark.
 
Yes a sheared key on one of those motors will still get you great spark.----But at the wrong time !------A sheared or even the key missing will still get great spark.
 
Partee217.... At some point in all the above, you mentioned replacing the powerpack and also mentioned low voltage being supplied to the coils. That indicates, usually, a failed or failing "Charge Coil" that supplies the needed voltage to the powerpack capacitor.

The ignition and electronic unit under the flywheel of that model normally consists of the "Powerpack", "Timing Sensor", Charge Coil", and a "Two Coil Stator".... If your unit is different, let me know.

Now... Disconnect the battery before doing any of the following. One sparking event would be expensive!
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If memory serves me right, read on:

The "Timing Sensor"... The ohm reading between the disconnected two wires of the "Timing Sensor" on the "Low Ohms" scale would be 40 ohms +/- 10 ohms..... then using the "High Ohms" scale, check for shorts between either wire to ground. What did you get?
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The "Charge Coil"... If electric start equipped direct from the factory, the ohm meter set to "High Ohms", the reading between the two disconnected wires of the Charge Coil would be 475 ohms +/- 75 ohms.

If equipped with only "Rope Start" from the factory with the electric start installed at a later date... the reading would be 575 ohms +/- 75 ohms. In either case (rope/electric) check those two wires for shorts between the coil and ground.

However... if that black charge coil is melting down... has a sticky looking substance dripping from it, replace it regardless of what reading you might get as that would result in a voltage drop to the powerpack. Let me know what you found with this charge coil.
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Note that a slow cranking engine would result in the flywheel magnets moving at a slow rpm past that charge coil which would result in weak, erratic, or no ignition. I don't recall if that info is listed in the service manuals or not but the average rpm stated is normally around 300 rpm which is always exceeded in yanking the rope thru or acquired via the electric start system.
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The "Stator Assembly"... Supplies AC voltage to the rectifier to be converted to DC voltage to charge the battery. The stator is normally a three (3) wire system, if yours is different, let me know.

Set the ohm meter to "Low Ohms" Have the stator wires disconnected.

Black meter lead to Yellow.... Red lead to Yellow/Gray = .35 ohms +/- .1 ohms
Black meter lead to Yellow.... Red lead to Yellow/Blue = .2 ohms +/- .1 ohms
Change meter to "High Ohms"
Black meter lead to Yellow.... Red lead to Ground = No reading is good .... Any kind of reading is shorted!
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The "Rectifier" Converts AC voltage to DC voltage.

(Small Rectifier Test)
(J. Reeves)

Remove the rectifier wires from the terminal block. Using a ohm meter, connect the black lead of the ohm meter to the rectifier base (ground), then one by one, connect the red lead of the ohm meter to the yellow, yellow/gray, then the red wire (some rectifiers may also have a fourth yellow/blue wire. If so connect to that also). Now, reverse the ohm meter leads and check those same wires again. You should get a reading in one direction, and none at all in the other direction.

Now, connect the black lead of the ohm meter to the red wire. One by one, connect the red lead of the ohm meter to the yellow, yellow/gray, and if present, the yellow/blue wire. Then reverse the leads, checking the wires again. Once more, you should get a reading in one direction and none in the other.

Note that the reading obtained from the red rectifier wire will be lower then what is obtained from the other wires.

Any deviation from the "Reading", "No Reading" as above indicates a faulty rectifier. Note that a rectifier will not tolerate reverse polarity. Simply touching the battery with the cables in the reverse order or hooking up a battery charger backwards will blow the diodes in the rectifier assembly immediately.
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The above takes in just about everything that could interfere with the ignition system (You've already checked the stop button). Hopefully you find the problem with the above tests.
 
You are correct about there being four parts under the flywheel. Thank you so much for the information, that is exactly what I was wanting to find out so I would know what readings to see. I will have more time this weekend to test everything and I will let you know the results.
 
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