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boater7

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I know winterizing is a very talked about topic but after a lot of research I still haven't found an answer to my question. I have been a boat tech for awhile but just recently started winterizing boats for the last few months and the one problem I continue to run into is draining the blocks, on most boats I can drain both blocks without a problem but every now and then (mostly gibson house boats) I can only get to one side of the block (theres not enough room to get to the other side) I have heard that you can drain just one side of the block and it drains all the water out of that side and MOST of the water out of the other side (the side you can't get to) and then from there you can run 4 gallons of antifreeze through the sea strainer and you will be fine, is there any experienced techs out there that can confirm this or that has another solution? I understand you can run the engine up to temp to get the thermostat to open or even take the thermostat out but its not realistic for me to do that when I am responsible to winterize up to 100 boats a year, would greatly appreciate answers.
 
I can tell you that for sure on Chevy V8 engines, there is a good amount of water left on the other side. Add anti freeze after blowing into water pump or thermostat housing. Much of the water will transfer across and drain. With a gallon of coolant mixed with what remains, it should never freeze hard enough to push out the frost plugs or crack the block. Never tried it on Ford's or others, however.
 
..............................
boater7 said:
I know winterizing is a very talked about topic but after a lot of research I still haven't found an answer to my question. I have been a boat tech for awhile but just recently started winterizing boats for the last few months and the one problem I continue to run into is draining the blocks, on most boats I can drain both blocks without a problem but every now and then (mostly gibson house boats) I can only get to one side of the block (theres not enough room to get to the other side)
Need more info! Are these V engines or in-line engines?


I have heard that you can drain just one side of the block and it drains all the water out of that side and MOST of the water out of the other side (the side you can't get to)
For a V engine, this is not true.
For an in-line engine, I believe that in most cases you would see a drain port on one side only.

and then from there you can run 4 gallons of antifreeze through the sea strainer and you will be fine, are there any experienced techs out there that can confirm this or that has another solution?

I understand you can run the engine up to temp to get the thermostat to open or even take the thermostat out but its not realistic for me to do that when I am responsible to winterize up to 100 boats a year, would greatly appreciate answers.
Please read my write-up from 2012, and read it twice if need be.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3BD7X6QC3KCFR?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp


If you plan to provide winterizing services, it may behoove you to carry an O&E policy!

It would also be a good idea to have the owners sign a form stating that they understand their engine has been winterized, and that any engine operation will negate the winterized state of protection.


And for what its worth since we are on the topic of winterizing............
(copy/paste from one of my other posts)

Fogging a carbureted engine is a dynamic process (running engine) whereby the fogging solution is to be introduced equally into each intake manifold plane (V engines). By using both primary throttle bores, the solution enters each plane.
(for a V-8 engine, if we miss one intake manifold plane, we will have missed 4 cylinders!)

It is best when a helper holds the throttle at about 1,100 RPM as you spray the fogging oil equally into both primary throttle bores (or both throttle bores of a 2 brl carburetor).

The helper will hold 1,100 RPM as you begin to spray the solution into each primary throttle bores.

The helper will then cut the ignition (still holding the throttle position) as you continue to spray until the crankshaft comes to rest!

The ignition is cut as to prevent combustion of the fogging oil!

This is true engine fogging, and can take place within 10 seconds or so!

Keep in mind that we DO NOT fog MPI system engines! That requires a different process, of which is not actually fogging!



Click to expand...
 
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timguy said:
I can tell you that for sure on Chevy V8 engines, there is a good amount of water left on the other side. Add anti freeze after blowing into water pump or thermostat housing. Much of the water will transfer across and drain. With a gallon of coolant mixed with what remains, it should never freeze hard enough to push out the frost plugs or crack the block. Never tried it on Ford's or others, however.
Click to expand...

While trying to be as polite as I can be........ please be careful when you make suggestions like this.

We have NO control regarding antifreeze dilution caused by residual seawater.

If all drain ports have been opened, and if these ports have been "probed" for rust scale debris (as they should be), and if we are able to see a reasonable amount of seawater draining...... we will be OK.

Just plain ole AIR will not freeze expand and crack our expensive cast iron components!


.

 
More blocks have been damaged by the "muff method without complete draining" than any mechanic screwing up.
water dilutes A/F lowering the freeze point.Guess wrong and the block, manifolds, coolers, etc will crack
 
The pic is a oil cooler that was not cooling the oil . You can see the crushed section preventing water flow .
This was not drained properly and this was the result
 
If it's closed cooling then you already have antifreeze in it and you don't need to drain anything except the heat exchangers and any other raw water side components. If it's raw water cooled, just let all the water out of the drain cocks and be done. Absolutely no reason to refill raw water system with antifreeze solution unless you're just trying to make money off clueless owners.
Ditto fogging unless the boat is to be laid up for several years.
 
................................
o2batsea said:
If it's closed cooling then you already have antifreeze in it and you don't need to drain anything except the heat exchangers and any other raw water side components.
Absolutely correct!

If it's raw water cooled, just let all the water out of the drain cocks and be done.
Absolutely correct again!
Be sure to probe the drain ports to ensure that no rust scale debris is blocking them!

Absolutely no reason to refill raw water system with antifreeze solution unless you're just trying to make money off clueless owners.
Ditto fogging unless the boat is to be laid up for several years.
Agreed!
Click to expand...
 
Fill your saltwater, raw water cooled, engine block with antifreeze. Evaporated sea water leaves behind deposits that are permanent, they will not dissolve when re-wet.

I would take the manufactures advise, over opinions.

Question:
Do I need to put antifreeze into the raw-water/seawater section of the cooling system after draining?


Answer:
MerCruiser requires the use of propylene glycol antifreeze (with a rust inhibitor for marine engines) in the seawater section of the cooling system. Damage caused by freezing or improper winterization is not covered by the limited factory warranty.

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/faq/?category[]=mercruiser-winterization
 
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I don't want to get into this argument but I take Mercruiser's stand on this issue with a huge pile of skepticism based on their desire to sell antifreeze, support the dealer network through billable services and generally promote these types of service as necessary or warranty killing if not followed. It just ain't so. If there's no water left in the engine block to freeze, then there's no worry about warranty is there? Whether it's air or antifreeze solution is of little consequence.
The amount of "deposits" left behind from draining the engine are at most negligible and will certainly redissolve again if they were dissolved before. However, nodular cast iron (engine block) is way more rust resistant than the raw cast iron of the exhaust system. Raw water systems are prone to sucking in all kinds of icky stuff, so the main problem is a collection of muck in the water jacket not so much rust.

Since the OP is a service technician, they should follow the instructions given by Mercruiser for the particular engine they are concerned with, and not my opinion on the matter. The service manuals for all the Mercruiser products are readily available from our hosts.
 
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boater7 said:
I know winterizing is a very talked about topic but after a lot of research I still haven't found an answer to my question. I have been a boat tech for awhile but just recently started winterizing boats for the last few months and the one problem I continue to run into is draining the blocks, on most boats I can drain both blocks without a problem but every now and then (mostly gibson house boats) I can only get to one side of the block (theres not enough room to get to the other side) I have heard that you can drain just one side of the block and it drains all the water out of that side and MOST of the water out of the other side (the side you can't get to) and then from there you can run 4 gallons of antifreeze through the sea strainer and you will be fine, is there any experienced techs out there that can confirm this or that has another solution? I understand you can run the engine up to temp to get the thermostat to open or even take the thermostat out but its not realistic for me to do that when I am responsible to winterize up to 100 boats a year, would greatly appreciate answers.
Click to expand...
If you're worried that the side with water won't get any antifreeze solution, don't. Assuming that there is connection of the fill side vs the non fill side, then the solution will "even out" throughout the entire contents after a while (yay physics!) Maybe mix it a tad rich just to be sure that it all gets to be sufficient solution of antifreeze to water.
 
Opinion vs fact,

selling antifreeze vs truth.

You really think Merc is trying to sell antifreeze??...........I guess they are trying to sell oil and gear oil also as a way to beef up income??.......or maybe as with high end sports cars, those manufacturers did the R&D and determined that you MUST use $25.00 per quart engine oil when changing oil and the oil filter they recommend costs as much.
So they did this because they want to sell you their "special" oil?????
I think not.............

WHERE THE F are you guys from? What Back yard yahoo mechanics school did you go to?

How many Marine specific training certifications do you all have hanging on your walls??

Chris is a Professional Certified Master Marine technician................you who work out of you driveways and back yards know more than he does?

REALLY? What boat did you just fall off of?

I myself have been winterizing boats (and well over 3000+) since 1990. I have and continue to put RV antifreeze (-50 or as Chris suggests when needed -100) in EVERY engine I manually drain when winterizing. I have NEVER had a failure!!!!
This is NOT opinion, it is fact!


Some of you spew out all of the Qua-say professionally written advice and then tell someone, Oh but wait you don't need to this as long as you do as i suggest.

Opinions are like A$$holes and there are several of those here (not including myself) who simply continue to spew opinion based on seeing there "post" numbers increase and who think because they can copy and paste technical information so the readers of such crap think they are some kind of expert who deserves appreciation.

WRONG!
 
Here is a perfect example of SPEW in RED!



I know winterizing is a very talked about topic but after a lot of research I still haven't found an answer to my question. I have been a boat tech for awhile but just recently started winterizing boats for the last few months and the one problem I continue to run into is draining the blocks, on most boats I can drain both blocks without a problem but every now and then (mostly gibson house boats) I can only get to one side of the block (theres not enough room to get to the other side)

Need more info! Are these V engines or in-line engines?

What difference is an in line vs V8/V6 makes no difference and is irrelevant to this topic


I have heard that you can drain just one side of the block and it drains all the water out of that side and MOST of the water out of the other side (the side you can't get to)

For a V engine, this is not true.
For an in-line engine, I believe that in most cases you would see a drain port on one side only.

See bold, "I believe" if the experience was there that would say I know not I believe!! Unsure due to lack of knowledge and experience

and then from there you can run 4 gallons of antifreeze through the sea strainer and you will be fine, are there any experienced techs out there that can confirm this or that has another solution?
I understand you can run the engine up to temp to get the thermostat to open or even take the thermostat out but its not realistic for me to do that when I am responsible to winterize up to 100 boats a year, would greatly appreciate answers.


Please read my write-up from 2012, and read it twice if need be.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3BD7X6QC3KCFR?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp

Again, a quote from some web page, not first hand knowledge!!


If you plan to provide winterizing services, it may behoove you to carry an O&E policy!

Oh you need a O&E policy? who the F carries one of those around with them and does this sound like and O&E situation? What relevance does this have on anything the OP asked?

It would also be a good idea to have the owners sign a form stating that they understand their engine has been winterized, and that any engine operation will negate the winterized state of protection.

Great advice from what source? If this were a professional Marine business I am sure they would not be seeking your advice on legal type consent paperwork! Again irrelevant to the OP question so why even post this SPEW


And for what its worth since we are on the topic of winterizing............
(copy/paste from one of my other posts)

Again a copy and paste which has been repeated 100's of times and most likely taken from another source to begin with, not OEM or original!

Fogging a carbureted engine is a dynamic process (running engine) whereby the fogging solution is to be introduced equally into each intake manifold plane (V engines). By using both primary throttle bores, the solution enters each plane.
(for a V-8 engine, if we miss one intake manifold plane, we will have missed 4 cylinders!)

It is best when a helper holds the throttle at about 1,100 RPM as you spray the fogging oil equally into both primary throttle bores (or both throttle bores of a 2 brl carburetor).

The helper will hold 1,100 RPM as you begin to spray the solution into each primary throttle bores.

The helper will then cut the ignition (still holding the throttle position) as you continue to spray until the crankshaft comes to rest!

The ignition is cut as to prevent combustion of the fogging oil!

This is true engine fogging, and can take place within 10 seconds or so!

Keep in mind that we DO NOT fog MPI system engines! That requires a different process, of which is not actually fogging!

OK so the OP wants to know about a SPECIFIC ISSUE with a SPECIFIC problem.
And all this additional spew is thrown in to add more confusion in an attempt to prove some kind of technical prowess to impress the readers...

I think I made my point!
 
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Well Jack, despite your well-intentioned rant, we are indeed arguing opinions here. What you are asking for is data that simply does not exist; that is, actual engineering studies conducted in real world conditions. That would settle the argument.
If the data actually exists, I'd love to see it and have my mind changed. Until then I'll remain a flat-earther in this debate. Simply saying that lots of people do it isn't really a thing. Even if it's you and Chris and you guys are brilliant.
 
.......................
kghost said:
Opinion vs fact,

selling antifreeze vs truth.

You really think Merc is trying to sell antifreeze??...........I guess they are trying to sell oil and gear oil also as a way to beef up income??.......or maybe as with high end sports cars, those manufacturers did the R&D and determined that you MUST use $25.00 per quart engine oil when changing oil and the oil filter they recommend costs as much.
So they did this because they want to sell you their "special" oil?????
I think not.............

WHERE THE F are you guys from? What Back yard yahoo mechanics school did you go to?
Let's share info.
I'll tell you where and how I received my training, if you will tell me where you learned
English grammar and spelling! Fair enough?

How many Marine specific training certifications do you all have hanging on your walls??

Chris is a Professional Certified Master Marine technician................you who work out of you driveways and back yards know more than he does?

REALLY? What boat did you just fall off of?

I myself have been winterizing boats (and well over 3000+) since 1990. I have and continue to put RV antifreeze (-50 or as Chris suggests when needed -100) in EVERY engine I manually drain when winterizing. I have NEVER had a failure!!!!
This is NOT opinion, it is fact!

Some of you spew out all of the Qua-say professionally written advice and then tell someone, Oh but wait you don't need to this as long as you do as i suggest.

Opinions are like A$$holes and there are several of those here (not including myself) who simply continue to spew opinion based on seeing there "post" numbers increase and who think because they can copy and paste technical information so the readers of such crap think they are some kind of expert who deserves appreciation.

WRONG!

And there ya have it..... another very adult like and polite post from Jack!
Click to expand...

kghost said:
Here is a perfect example of SPEW in RED!

I know winterizing is a very talked about topic but after a lot of research I still haven't found an answer to my question. I have been a boat tech for awhile but just recently started winterizing boats for the last few months and the one problem I continue to run into is draining the blocks, on most boats I can drain both blocks without a problem but every now and then (mostly gibson house boats) I can only get to one side of the block (theres not enough room to get to the other side)

Need more info! Are these V engines or in-line engines?

What difference is an in line vs V8/V6 makes no difference and is irrelevant to this topic
With your eye glasses on, please go back and read it again.


I have heard that you can drain just one side of the block and it drains all the water out of that side and MOST of the water out of the other side (the side you can't get to)

For a V engine, this is not true.
For an in-line engine, I believe that in most cases you would see a drain port on one side only.

See bold, "I believe" if the experience was there that would say I know not I believe!! Unsure due to lack of knowledge and experience

and then from there you can run 4 gallons of antifreeze through the sea strainer and you will be fine, are there any experienced techs out there that can confirm this or that has another solution?
I understand you can run the engine up to temp to get the thermostat to open or even take the thermostat out but its not realistic for me to do that when I am responsible to winterize up to 100 boats a year, would greatly appreciate answers.

Please read my write-up from 2012, and read it twice if need be.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3BD7X6QC3KCFR?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp

Again, a quote from some web page, not first hand knowledge!!
The link leads to my write-up on an Amazon review of the Camco and/or Star-Brite winterizing kits!
These are my words.... no plagiarizing!

If you plan to provide winterizing services, it may behoove you to carry an O&E policy!
Oh you need a O&E policy? who the F carries one of those around with them and does this sound like and O&E situation? What relevance does this have on anything the OP asked?
That is not for YOU to determine! Let the OP comment on that!

It would also be a good idea to have the owners sign a form stating that they understand their engine has been winterized, and that any engine operation will negate the winterized state of protection.

Great advice from what source? If this were a professional Marine business I am sure they would not be seeking your advice on legal type consent paperwork! Again irrelevant to the OP question so why even post this SPEW
Again, this is not for YOU to determine.


And for what its worth since we are on the topic of winterizing............
(copy/paste from one of my other posts)

Again a copy and paste which has been repeated 100's of times and most likely taken from another source to begin with, not OEM or original!
This was a copy/paste from MY OWN words from another MarineEngine.com thread. In other words (dumbing this down for you), I copied my own words and pasted my own words into this thread!

Fogging a carbureted engine is a dynamic process (running engine) whereby the fogging solution is to be introduced equally into each intake manifold plane (V engines). By using both primary throttle bores, the solution enters each plane.
(for a V-8 engine, if we miss one intake manifold plane, we will have missed 4 cylinders!)

It is best when a helper holds the throttle at about 1,100 RPM as you spray the fogging oil equally into both primary throttle bores (or both throttle bores of a 2 brl carburetor).

The helper will hold 1,100 RPM as you begin to spray the solution into each primary throttle bores.

The helper will then cut the ignition (still holding the throttle position) as you continue to spray until the crankshaft comes to rest!

The ignition is cut as to prevent combustion of the fogging oil!

This is true engine fogging, and can take place within 10 seconds or so!

Keep in mind that we DO NOT fog MPI system engines! That requires a different process, of which is not actually fogging!

OK so the OP wants to know about a SPECIFIC ISSUE with a SPECIFIC problem.
Perhaps go back and re-read post #1.

And all this additional spew is thrown in to add more confusion in an attempt to prove some kind of technical prowess to impress the readers...
Perhaps you should take your own advice regarding long winded, spew filled, not asked for info posts.
Is this not an example of what bothers you....... (see post #12 here)
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?449985-how-do-I-check-for-flapper-valve-parts-in-the-transom-housing

I think I made my point!
The point that you have made is that you just simply DO NOT know how to be polite, nor how to get along with other forum members, nor how to respect other members (even when you may disagree), and that you are easily threatened by the information that other members post!

Jack, this is a large sand box.
There is plenty of room for more than just YOU to play! But for God's Sake, be an adult when you do!
Click to expand...

o2batsea said:
Well Jack, despite your well-intentioned rant,
I need to ask..... what is a well intentioned Rant???? LOL

we are indeed arguing opinions here. What you are asking for is data that simply does not exist; that is, actual engineering studies conducted in real world conditions. That would settle the argument.
Agreed! But I digress...... is this an argument, or is this simply a show of different opinions?
I would like to think that this is simply a show of different opinions.

If the data actually exists, I'd love to see it and have my mind changed. Until then I'll remain a flat-earther in this debate. Simply saying that lots of people do it isn't really a thing. Even if it's you and Chris and you guys are brilliant.
Great point!
And I must say, I have great respect for Chris. Chris is polite, knows how to communicate well and he shows respect to others even if he disagrees with them.
Jack, on the other hand, displays a bully type attitude. Regardless of how "spot-on" his info may be, I cannot respect a person with this type of attitude and behavior, and I doubt that I'm alone on that!
Click to expand...



Jack, I would like to ask that you either be polite and respond in an adult like manner, or simply DO NOT read what I post here.
It's that simple and it's your choice.



.
 
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Wow, nice Nova. I had a 74 with a modified 350. Loved it, decent handling car too, musta been due in part to the leaf springs. Chevys are the most bang for your buck. Doing up a 69 402 BB next. Probably going in my 69 Firebird with Muncie wide ratio, already have the Camaro 12 bolt rear with posi......new clutches too, use whale oil additive for that, don't think you can get it anymore.
 
Sorry, off topic. Better than arguing with Dr.death, (excitement is good, normality is boring). But why argue with someone that's RIGHT?
Firebird is my first car, bought it in 1973.....Canadian made 400, so came with a 400 Chev BB......actually a 402. Kind of a rare car, front disc brakes, ps delete, and Muncie 4 speed.....no console. Love my Pontiac, brother.
Now to address something brought up earlier by someone. An in line engine has one block water jacket drain, and a V8, has two, right? So what happens when you can't get to one side to open the drain hole? THATS the difference that this post is addressing. I have welded cracked blocks and heads, exhaust manifolds, intake manifolds, etc. because of others mistakes....including marinas. Nobody is perfect, including timguy, and I'm far from "normal". Who do you know that drives a 74 Chev truck, when he's not driving his 69 Chev truck.......and he has a 1966 Hemi Charger in the back of his pole barn piled on with outboard parts. Yes.....I'm insane, the worst thing it's been sitting there for 27 years. Dah!
 
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timguy said:
Wow, nice Nova. I had a 74 with a modified 350. Loved it, decent handling car too, musta been due in part to the leaf springs. Chevys are the most bang for your buck. Doing up a 69 402 BB next. Probably going in my 69 Firebird with Muncie wide ratio, already have the Camaro 12 bolt rear with posi......new clutches too, use whale oil additive for that, don't think you can get it anymore.
Click to expand...

I have owned this Chevy II since I was 17. It was stolen last year and I recovered it back in April. Putting it back together.

And Rick, they are full dish pistons.


42084562_10157047636874239_3069838685248684032_o_10157047636869239.jpg
 
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