Logo
FULL SITE MENU

Oil high in ZDDP for Crusaders with flat tappet cams

S

steveg_nh

Regular Contributor
Well my head is officially spinning trying to sort out modern engine oils for use in 1989 Crusader 454s. My understanding is these engines have flat tappet cams vs rollers, and require higher zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) levels than current energy efficient oils provide. Without it, the engines will wear faster. While there have been oils available that had higher ZDDP such as Rotella T3 and Chevrol Delo 400 LE, the formulations keep getting replaced with less ZDDP. I believe Rotella T4 may still have the higher levels of ZDDP, but they dropped the S rated for gas engines (maybe that's fine to use still)...

Originally, the engines called for SAE30 oil, but now Crusader recommends 15W-40. I can buy regular 15W-40 and use an additive to bring it up to the recommended levels of ZDDP (1200ppm), or continue to hunt for an oil that has the right level and that is rated S for gas engines.

So my question is, is there a current oil that is relatively easy to source (Walmart, local auto parts store, etc.) that has higher ZDDP, or is the only real option the additive now, and if so, does it work as well once mixed, with oil that comes with it straight from the factory? My engines may be old, but they only have 800 hours on them and run fantastic, so I'd like to keep them going as long as I can...

Once I solve this, I wonder if I can use the same oil in my 1989 Kohler 7.5kW generator, that also called for SAE30 oil originally.

​​​​​​​Thanks for the help!
 
diver_dave said:
Amzoil has been selling a high ZDDP oil in 10w-30. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2883.pdf

Won't find it in Walmart though.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Crusader is recommending 15W-40. Being a rule follower, I'm trying to stay with that. I understand the 10W isn't the big deal, but for some reason they are leaning towards the 40 vs 30 weight now.

What do you think about the generator? That called for SAE30 originally, like the engines. I would think I can run whatever I decide on for the engines in this 4 cylinder generator.
 
I've been running Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil in my 1977 Crusader small block engines. As you know, the current API "S" rating is SN which contains practically no ZDDP. The VR1 oil is rated at SL. I wish they offered 15W-40. I run a mix of 10W-30 and 20W-50. I can find it in a local automotive parts store that supports gearheads, not in the national chain stores.

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq
 
My owners manual for the 350hp calls for SAE40 above 90 deg "daytime" temperature. Below that, 30weight. Probably not a huge deal. The manual leads me to believe that they really want 40 when the engine is at operating temp, but start ups at 40 when the air is cool is not welcome.

I do like better flow at startup, so I tend to find synthetic large spread oils for that.

ps: on the genset. If it's 3600 rpm, then thats a not so nice action to demand of a cold engine, with zero warm up. I'd definately go with a wide spread synthetic for that one; like a 5W-30.
 
Last edited:
DJR said:
I've been running Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil in my 1977 Crusader small block engines. As you know, the current API "S" rating is SN which contains practically no ZDDP. The VR1 oil is rated at SL. I wish they offered 15W-40. I run a mix of 10W-30 and 20W-50. I can find it in a local automotive parts store that supports gearheads, not in the national chain stores.

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq
Click to expand...

so you are creating your own blend. That gets you to 15w-40?
 
diver_dave said:
My owners manual for the 350hp calls for SAE40 above 90 deg "daytime" temperature. Below that, 30weight. Probably not a huge deal. The manual leads me to believe that they really want 40 when the engine is at operating temp, but start ups at 40 when the air is cool is not welcome.

I do like better flow at startup, so I tend to find synthetic large spread oils for that.

ps: on the genset. If it's 3600 rpm, then thats a not so nice action to demand of a cold engine, with zero warm up. I'd definately go with a wide spread synthetic for that one; like a 5W-30.
Click to expand...

The genny runs at 1800rpm
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I decided I've wasted too much of my life already worrying about this. :) I went with Rotella T4 15W40. It isn't S rated, but that's what you want so the ZDDP is there. I got all twisted up when I started reading some oil quality thread by "540 RAT" online about psi pressures and stuff like that, and not using diesel oils in gas engines and stuff. It sounded all really good, until I real dug into it. Since 99% of the 15W40 oils are made for diesels, and this is what Crusader recommends, I'm good with my decision! They must know what they want.:D Sound logical?
 
steveg_nh said:
so you are creating your own blend. That gets you to 15w-40?
Click to expand...

It's my goal to create a blend with a viscosity between 30 and 50. I have my oil analyzed by Blackstone Labs, and the results show the viscosity is somewhat higher than straight 10W-30.

[Edit: I see we were writing at the same time. There are lots of folks using Rotella as you do. I'll bet you'll be fine.]
 
Last edited:
Thanks. What do you think of the fact that Rotella T4 no longer carries the S certification? I'm guessing it only doesn't because the kept the ZDDP levels where they were. If it still meets the other specs that were the same as SM, it must be the same.

Now to decide what to do about the generator.
 
So as I keep reading (maybe I should have stopped), I'm not sure I should use a non S rated oil in a gas engine. So I need a higher ZDDP oil, but rated for gas, in 15w-40 if I want to check all the boxes. I'm not sure this exists. Does it?
 
Any opinions on Vavoline All Fleet Plus E900 oil? It's rated for diesels and SL for gas, but if I'm reading right, still has 1270ppm of zinc.
 
Doesn't matter. :) I'm done. LOL. I found what I was looking for. I located a post directly from Shell Rotella tech support stating that the formulation did not change at all when they dropped the API SN rating, as they wanted to leave the zinc and phosphorous levels where they were, so they couldn't still have the oil be API SN rated. But, the JASO MA/MA2 rating, from another country, is a gasoline engine rating...So this really is all about the federal government and their regulations and the like. I'm using Rotella... Thanks everyone for humoring me!
 
Last edited:
My 86 454's have seen nothing but Mobil 1 full synthetic since their 50 hour oil change.....over 3000 hours before major overhaul....and the machinist that checked them out was amazed at the lack of wear given the high hours.....I think the ZDDP is beneficial for the break-in....
 
Back
Top