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2000 60 HP Johnson - Running on 2 of 3 cylinders when cold

code1p36

Regular Contributor
I have a 2000 60 HP (powerhead) jet that starts up and runs pretty well but without full power. It acts like it is running on only 2 of 3 cylinders. After running it for a short while I then started it back up after sitting for 30 minutes or so then I am back to full power. I thought it was due to a plugged fuel line or stuck float in the closed position not getting fuel so I cleaned the carbs a couple days ago (I rebuilt them a few weeks ago but didn't clean out all fuel lines well, should have though) and cleaned all fuel lines and put a new filter in. I know they are clean now but still having this issue after running it tonight. Runs very well once all 3 cylinders kick in and warm. Compression was good last time I checked with about 130 per cylinder.

Could this possibly be an issue with the pulse limiter to the fuel pump connection. The VRO pump was removed prior to me taking ownership. The hose from crankcase to fuel pump is a little big so it wasn't a very tight fit at the fuel pump, could that be the issue?

How do you check if running on all 3 cylinders? Spark is easy to check (which I will do this weekend) when in a big bucket at home but I can't tell without running it at higher RPM if all 3 cylinders are getting fuel to the spark plugs. I believe it is a fuel issue but not sure how to confirm while in a big bucket.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
 
I believe I found the issue...The middle plug wire was reversed from the coil to the plug. The plug end boot is a little longer not allowing it to seat very well on the coil and when I removed it it had some surface rust on it so I cleaned that up. I ran a spark test and all 3 cylinders have very strong spark.

I was nervous that running on 2 cylinders could cause some damage so I ran another compression test and still all are close to 130 so that is good. Leading me to believe it was getting fuel and not good spark.

I don't have the equipment for a drop down test but I am hoping that plug wire was the issue.

I also took off the front air box cover to verify fuel was getting to carbs while running and I saw a very small amount of fuel in each carb body thus thinking all three are getting fuel.

Could that reversed plug wire be the culprit?
 
Running with spark on 2 cylinders on that motor does no damage to the piston / cylinder wall on the one that was not firing !!
 
I was nervous if it wasn't delivering fuel to one of the cylinders but I am pretty sure it was a spark issue, so that is good.
 
I am unfortunately back to the similar issue of running on 2 of 3 cylinders. Roughly 3 out of 4 times out, the motor runs good and strong and on all 3 cylinders. Just took it out a couple nights ago and back to 2/3rds power from a cold start and never went to all 3 cylinders after running it off and on. I have new coils (one was shorting out, arcing) and new rectifier (shop replaced it a few months ago) and all other is good per first post.

Now I believe it is the power pack. Went to CDIs website and it said should be around 110 ohms per cylinder lead so I tested it.

I measured ohms between power pack wires from coil connection to 5 post harness after I unplugged both ends (color code per CDI):
#1 Orange/Blue to Blue - 89.7 ohms
#2 Orange (my wires Orange/Purple) to Green (mine Purple, Green was open circuit) - 83.2 ohms
#3 Orange/Green to Purple (mine Green, Purple was open circuit) - 115.0 ohms
White to Black - Shorted (2.1 ohms)

Found it very odd colors didn't match but the readings seem to be out of the range they should be. One at 115 would seem acceptable.

Can someone else help me out with this as I am not familiar with these power packs and their readings.

Do I need a new power pack, any other tests I should do?

Thanks!
 
I am currently having the same problem with my 2000 70 hp. The items I know to check are the plug connections between the timing base and power pack. Make sure your pins are not pushing out and wires are connected. Also check your timing base. I think one cylinder missing is going to be one of the following:
1. Bad connection between timing base and power pack
2. Bad timing base
3. Bad power pack
4. Bad coil, wire, plug on bad cylinder

The ohm readings I took were 140 on all three of the Orange wires. Within 1-2 ohms. Not sure that really means anything.

You may want to get a Electronic Specialties 640 DVA Adapter
It plugs into your meter and it is on Amazon for $31 including shipping. It will allow you to go thru the troubleshooting guide and fully test the components.

My problem may have been the plug connections. I am going out today to test and will let you know if I learn anything that might help.
Scottro
 
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I believe I found the issue...The middle plug wire was reversed from the coil to the plug. The plug end boot is a little longer not allowing it to seat very well on the coil and when I removed it it had some surface rust on it so I cleaned that up

You are mistaken... The spark plug boot is always a little longer then the boot that goes on the coil. The extra length is to provide a extra measure of protection from the elements. If you have a problem installing the longer boot, spray a small amount of WD40 inside it to act as a lubricant.

The "Drop Test" does not involve any extra equipment excepting a pair of "Insulated Pliers". Have the engine running and with the missing problem present. Now, simply use those insulated pliers to remove one spark plug wire at a time. When you pull a plug wire and there's NO difference in rpms... you've found the faulty cylinder.

The cylinder that's NOT firing?.... When it's NOT firing, do a spark test. At a minimum, stick a #2 philips screwdriver tip into the spring connector of the plug boot and hold it about 1/2" away from the powerhead... that'll tell you if you have spark or not.
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And if you actually do have spark, that leaves carburetion. If there's adjustable needle valves on that model, whichever cylinder is acting up... back that needle out 1/8 turn or so as a test to see if it makes a difference. Just make a note as to where it was before you moved it.

Also with the engine missing, running on just two cylinders, you can check for a lean running engine (Not enough fuel) by simply sticking two fingers into the carburetor throat (acting as a manual choke). When the engine picks up in rpm, you've found the offending carburetor.
 
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Thank you Scottro for providing your measurements, sounds like yours is consistent so that is good, mine were not. I got a hold of CDI Electronics and based on my readings and symptoms they told me to replace the powerpack. My new powerpack has consistent ohm readings so I just got done replacing it.

While waiting for my powerpack I did get a DVA and tested output and I was a little low on voltage on old powerpack output so that was confirmation to replace. I tested the new powerpack installed and it bumped up my voltage to within spec, pheww!

Motor runs much smoother now (in a large bin of water) so that is a good start. I did notice though that at idle it is fairly high for a while then drops back to about where it should be, and I don't recall the old powerpack doing that. If I bump up the throttle and back down it seems to raise and lower the RPMs after throttle being stationary at idle again. It eventually drops it low enough the motor stutters with a very slight cough at the end and dies where throttle is at idle. Is this a feature of the new CDI pack? It does sound like I need to tune the carbs a little due to the stutter, cough then dies.

Thanks.
 
Thank you Scottro for providing your measurements, sounds like yours is consistent so that is good, mine were not. I got a hold of CDI Electronics and based on my readings and symptoms they told me to replace the powerpack. My new powerpack has consistent ohm readings so I just got done replacing it.

While waiting for my powerpack I did get a DVA and tested output and I was a little low on voltage on old powerpack output so that was confirmation to replace. I tested the new powerpack installed and it bumped up my voltage to within spec, pheww!

Motor runs much smoother now (in a large bin of water) so that is a good start. I did notice though that at idle it is fairly high for a while then drops back to about where it should be, and I don't recall the old powerpack doing that. If I bump up the throttle and back down it seems to raise and lower the RPMs after throttle being stationary at idle again. It eventually drops it low enough the motor stutters with a very slight cough at the end and dies where throttle is at idle. Is this a feature of the new CDI pack? It does sound like I need to tune the carbs a little due to the stutter, cough then dies.

Thanks.
The high idle at startup is caused by the power pack increasing the spark advance at startup. It is a feature to improve cold start performance. It will drop out once the temp sender hits its setpoint or when you go above 2500 rpm.
 
Please post your results when testing the newly installed power pack. I am still having problems with my motor and im planning to also order a power pack in the next couple days so if you have any feedback it would be appreciated.
 
Took the boat out fishing tonight...Started fairly easy and ran pretty smooth and when I went to throttle up it was back to 2/3 power! I fished for a couple hours with my trolling motor then started up the main motor and jumped right on plane and ripped right along for a short while (only due to where I was at) so I throttled back down to idle and it died. I couldn't get it started for the rest of the night, it would allow a slight pop when cranking it. How can it run on 2/3 power, wait 2 hours, fire back up and runs great, dies and can't start again?!

I still believe it must be electrical because if it was carburetion issues they wouldn't just temporarily go away, right?

To recap:
Put in new power pack a few days ago per CDI Electronics technical help
Tested stator output (before replacing power pack) during cranking with DVA and fell within specs
Tested timer (before replacing power pack) with timing light at TDC with marks on flywheel and they were hitting close to marks (idle was high and wasn't consistent - I know carbs need tuned a little)
New rectifier was install by shop several months back - which they originally thought was the culprit
Tested spark on all three cylinders with timing light
Carbs were rebuilt 1.5 years ago and cleaned again since then
Carbs were tuned, linked and synced by shop when rectifier was replaced several months back
Primer bulb stays firm
Fresh gas

I will try the drop down test but the issue is so random and it seems to run well in a bucket of water, just not the lake.

Any other ideas? Thanks in advance!
 
Stators in "fail" mode will usually function properly when cold... BUT... when hot from running, and especially when shut down for a time to fish, eat, relax, whatever... all the cooling water drains out of the engine and the existing heat rises inside the hood to the flywheel/stator area... the result, in time, is what you describe.

This may not be the cause of your problem but it is the most likely. Intermittent components (sigh!)

Look closely at the stator... If you see a sticky looking substance dripping out of it... dripping down on the powerhead area... replace it regardless of whatever readings you may obtain from it.

NOTE that if the above is indeed the cause of your problem... is your tachometer acting up also? If so, that is normally caused by a faulty failed voltage regulator/rectifier that is interfering with the battery charging system that is causing a voltage backup at the stator which, in turn, caused the stator to overheat.

If the tachometer is going nuts, do the following test to find which is faulty... the tachometer or the regulator/rectifier.
********************
(Testing Tachometer With Water Cooled Regulator/Rectifier)
(J. Reeves)

A quick check is to simply plug in a another new tachometer as a piece of test equipment. If the new tach works properly and the old tach didn't, obviously the old tach is faulty.... but usually boaters don't carry around a spare tach (see below).

A faulty rectifier wouldn't damage the tachometer, the tachometer simply wouldn't work. This is due to the fact that the tachometer operates off of the charging system and the rectifier converts AC voltage to DC voltage, enabling the charging system. A faulty rectifier disables the charging system, and the tachometer simply doesn't register.

However.... those water cooled regulator/rectifiers that are used on the 35 ampere charging systems (and some others) bring into play a different type problem, and as you've probably found out, they are really a pain to troubleshoot via the proper procedure. There's an easier way.

The tachometer sending/receiving setup operates off of the gray wire at the tachometer. That same gray wire exists at the engine wiring harness which is connected to the engine electrical terminal strip. You'll see that there is a gray wire leading from the regulator/rectifier to that terminal strip, and that there is another gray wire attached to it. That other gray wire is the wire leading to the tachometer which is the one you're looking for.

NOTE: For the later models that DO NOT incorporate a wiring terminal strip, splicing into the "Yellow Wire" mentioned will be necessary.

Normally the Gray wire leading from the tachometer is attached at the terminal strip to another Gray wire which leads from the water cooled voltage regulator/rectifier...... remove the gray wire that leads to the tachometer. Now, find the two (2) yellow wires leading from the stator to that terminal strip. Hopefully one of them is either yellow/gray or is connected to a yellow/gray wire at the terminal strip. If so, connect the gray wire you removed previously to that yellow/gray terminal. Start the engine and check the tachometers operation, and if the tachometer operates as it should, then the regulator/rectifier is faulty and will require replacing. If the tachometer is still faulty, replace the tachometer.

If neither of the yellow wires from the stator is yellow/gray, and neither is attached to a yellow/gray wire, then attach that gray tachometer wire to either yellow stator wire, then the other yellow wire, checking the tachometer operation on both connections.

I've found this method to be a quick and efficient way of finding out which component is faulty.... the tachometer or the regulator/rectifier. It sounds drawn out but really only takes a very short time to run through. If the water cooled regulator/rectifier proves to be faulty, don't put off replacing it as they have been known to catch on fire with disastrous consequences.
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I have looked up under the flywheel and it appears the stator is in good condition. I do not have a tach on my boat but I may have an older one in my parts bin, so I will look into that.
 
I ran some more tests tonight on the timer base and have the following results:
Unplugged both 5 wire connectors from power pack for all tests

Cranked the engine over for a few seconds and tested with a DVA between the following wires which tested out well:
White to Blue - 1.97V
White to Purple - 1.98V
White to Green - 2.0V

Next step if above step results is above 1.5V do the following:
Using a jumper wire between the Black/White to White to jump the two together
Cranked the engine over for a few seconds for each reading
Black probe to engine ground
Red probe to blue, then purple, then green all resulted in no voltage
Book says if less than 1.5V and wiring is good replace the timer base (since cranking output test passed last time)
Does anyone find it odd it is zero volts, Joe what are your thoughts?

The next test I checked resistance between the following and it failed, book said it varies between testers but should have continuity:
White to Blue - No continuity - open circuit
White to Purple - No continuity - open circuit
White to Green - No continuity - open circuit

The next test I checked was if the timer base was grounded, and it wasn't, which is good:
Ground to Blue - No continuity - open circuit
Ground to Purple - No continuity - open circuit
Ground to Green - No continuity - open circuit

With a couple failed tests I wanted to get confirmation that it is for sure the timer base and that I didn't do something wrong during tests. I thought it was the stator but maybe it was the timer base this whole time (and the power pack, which I just replaced).

Thanks again for all the help!

BTW Joe - My rectifier has the fins on it so I don't think it is water cooled therefore I did not attempt the above tests.
 
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So I ended up replacing the stator, rectifier, ECU and just cleaned the carbs. Took it out last weekend and ran very well with no issues. Just took some buddies fishing and headed up river about 2 miles early this morning and ran great again. Fished for 2 hours then headed back. Guess what? Back to 2 cylinders again!! What the heck could it be now? Acting just like it did before I replaced all the parts.

Can charging the battery ruin my rectifier? That is the only thing I have done between trips. I charge with a fast charge at 10 amps. I don't have any testing equipment since we are out camping to test the rectifier.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.
 
Replacing parts gets expensive.-----You have a bunch of good spares now.----Run with a timing light hooked up to see if you can find the cylinder with the miss.
 
With the engine cold... as if you were just about to haul it out of the garage to the lake. Instead, remove "all" the spark plugs, then check the spark NOT with a timing light but by using the tip of a #2 philips screwdriver pushed into the spring type connector inside the spark plug boot (it fits perfectly), then hold the shank of the screwdriver the approximate distance of 7/16" - 1/2" away from the powerhead while the engine is being cranked over. That screwdriver test will reveal the true characteristics of the spark... the timing light doesn't do that.

The spark must jump that 7/16" air gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... A Real SNAP!

The timing light would register even if the spark would jump no more than a 1/8" or so.

Check the rubber electrical connectors. The pins/sockets have a habit of working their way out, away from each other, resulting in a poor connection. Also, the wires themselves have been known to break away from the pins/sockets BUT the wire would stay held in the rubber connector by pure friction, giving the impression that the actual connection was secure... Check them.

Check the continuity of the spark plug wires, and the coil internal windings. <-- Any break or poor connection there will result in weird happenings.
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Joe, I just tested spark exactly like you mentioned on a cold engine and it had a very strong blue spark on all cylinders.

Before replacing parts I confirmed they were bad before replacing except the stator and my local boat mechanic recommended to replace it as well.
 
If I lose a cylinder out on the river can I unhook both yellow wires from rectifier and safely run it that way or is that a bad idea?
 
I would not disconnect a rectifier on a running motor !!-----Hard to believe that all those parts can be " bad " as you say they were.----I would not throw them out.
 
I will not disconnect the rectifier while running, just wondering if that would lead to confirming a bad rectifier/regulator.

Like I said, rectifier was bad by a simple test with a multimeter by following CDI documentation. I emailed CDI with my test results for ECU and they recommended replacement and local shop said to replace stator too as that may be toasting your rectifier. I am not a marine mechanic therefore I take advice from the professionals and do my best.
 
After talking with a boat mechanic and looking back at all the symptoms we found it necessary to pull the head. Quite a while back when I couldn't get it started I found a creamy milky (tan in color) moisture on a plug. I thought it was due to water in the fuel but after talking with him he thought I was getting water in from somewhere else.

I pulled the head off and it actually looks really good with no signs of breakage around the seal of the head gasket. Good even compression still. The bottom cylinder of the head is quite a bit darker then the other so I am guessing that is a byproduct of water getting in there? How else could water get in there?

Since that looked pretty good I pulled the exhaust plate off and that looked pretty good too with a little sign of deterioration around the bottom right of gasket. After pulling the plate off I could not find any cracks in the housing letting water in around the exhaust tunnels. Is it common to have a crack somewhere in there?

How can I test to see where water is getting into the bottom cylinder? Keep in mind it must be a very little amount as the motor runs great most of the time and intermittently on startup runs on 2 of 3 cylinders.

Here are several pics of what I have found. Thanks again for all the help!
2000 60 HP Head 1.jpg
2000 60 HP Head 2.jpg
2000 60 HP Under Exhaust Plate w Gasket.jpg
2000 60 HP Under Exhaust Plate.jpg
2000 60 HP Exhaust Plate and Gasket.jpg
 
Here are a couple pics of the head gasket between the middle and bottom cylinder. This is the only area I can see where water could be coming in. There is very minor signs of it breaking down and bulging in towards the powerhead, it wasn't bulging in much between the top and middle cylinder. Can you still have good compression and have a head gasket leaking a very small amount of water or mist of water?head gasket 1.jpg
head gasket 2.jpg
 
Unfortunately, I am back with the same issue. Took the boat out tonight and ran pretty good for a short run, fished for a couple hours or so then started it back up and wouldn't jump on plane as quick, back to 2 cylinders. I did notice on the first run when I was throttling up to get on plane there was a slight miss or pause in accelaration but still ran well after that.

After back to 2 cylinders I went back to the dock, turned it off and tried Joe's screwdriver spark test and it had good spark on all 3 cylinders again. It was getting late and called it a night.

The only component I haven't replaced yet is the timer base. What are your guys thoughts? Could that be my intermittent problem? It does seem that this issue is getting more common now. At home I have confirmed with a DVA tester that it is good, I just can't seem to confirm it when the issue arises. I tried the timing light on the lake last time and it showed spark on all 3 cylinders so it must be getting some sort of weak spark, or at least it did at that moment...
 
Mine was doing same thing, marine mechanic with 25 years experience couldn't figure it out, he went thru carbs 2x and came to realize top carb had a slightly different taper to needle, ended up having to back it out further than other 2, same motor and HP
 
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