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Honda BF150 PROBLEM- sucking water in top cylinder

J

JMT

New member
Hi All!
I've been working on a 2007 Honda BF 150 with a problem of water in the oil, via what appears to be the #1 top cylinder. Took everything apart, replaced Head Gasket which had minimal smoking gun as to it being bad. Also replaced exhaust gaskets, o-rings- anything I took apart gasket-wise, I replaced.
New Spark plugs, all honda oem equipment and followed manual. Also replaced thermostats and relief valve. Flushed out/scraped out all water jackets/ head and block. Put her back together, started her back up- all ran fine until it came up to temp- and then bam- water in #1 top cylinder and puked into engine, and turned my oil into milk again. Defeat!!
Been doing some reading, wondering if its possible that the top cylinder isn't firing properly due to a bad injector- could this be causing a bad suction causing water to be sucked in via the exhaust valves?

Anyone have this problem before?
Thanks for your time!
-Neil
 
Did you get the cylinder head pressure tested because you can't always see pin holes into the water jacket? I have found they typically eventually pop a hole inside the exhaust port from inside water jacket.
 
iang6766 said:
Did you get the cylinder head pressure tested because you can't always see pin holes into the water jacket? I have found they typically eventually pop a hole inside the exhaust port from inside water jacket.
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Thats my next step is to pressure test head.. hope to find a problem there..
Well keep you posted ,thanks for your inputs
 
i am having the same problem in the lower cylinder #4 , I did a compression test ,around 185 psi on each cyl. , I also start the engine without the water hose for a couple of seconds and runs fine then i open the water hose and the engine stars missing cylinder #4, I replaced injectors,coils,spark plugs already. Water is going into the engine oil. I had to flush the engine also. I need help . Thanks.
 
iang6766 said:
Same as above,you will have to remove the cylinder head and have it pressure tested
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I removed the cylinder head and it was bad,salt water damaged , a lot of corrosion ,the water was getting into the cylinder. I purchased a used cylinder head, all new gaskets and oil changed. Everything is working good now. Thank you.
 
Lukes4tow said:
I removed the cylinder head and it was bad,salt water damaged , a lot of corrosion ,the water was getting into the cylinder. I purchased a used cylinder head, all new gaskets and oil changed. Everything is working good now. Thank you.
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TritonFisher said:
Do you have any pictures of the head from before the tear down and what it looked like inside after removed?
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I had the same situation. here is a photo of my bf150 head and the damage inside due to corrosion in the water jacket

attachment.php
 
and no surprise, the marine cylinder head is *slightly* different than the automotive head. coolant ports are in a different location. OEM honda marine it is, now to find a cylinder head
 
I’ve read a number of threads about corrosion through into cylinder from water jacket. How common is this and is there much you can do about it? I know you are meant to flush with fresh water after each run in salt and I know anodes should be inspected/replaced when needed. The reason I ask is I have a 2002 BF225 which is never flushed with fresh as it sits throughout the summer on a saltwater mooring. I don’t know how much of a risk this is...
 
Hi James T, Can you link to some of these threads? I am an engineer specializing in 4 and 6 cyl engines, with deep honda development experience... I cant imagine how corrosion could get through the cylinder walls/sleeve.


Flushing fresh water after each use is a good idea, but as far as I can tell - the image i posted with a corroded hole in the combustion chamber is the likely source of water intrusion. not the cylinder
 
Sorry Geoff must be a misunderstanding here. I am referring to the combustion chamber either through the cylinder head or wall of cylinder itself with salt water corrosion starting on water jacket side. Maybe this only happens through the cylinder head itself? This thread itself refers to this doesn’t it? There are a few threads which also refer to salt water corrosion from water cooling side causing water either in cylinder itself or into engine itself causing milky oil (maybe I misunderstood them - please correct me if I’m wrong)my personal interest was based on the fact I have an old motor BF225 which I’d like to keep going as long as possible and I wanted to know if there wasssnyghing I could do given I’m on a salt water mooring some way from fresh water ... maybe there is nothing I can do?
this was another thread on same subject - http://www.marineengine.com/boat-fo...in-lower-cylinder-but-good-pressure-and-spark
 
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hi James,

I think the BF225 is a fantastic engine and agree to do everything possible to keep going as long as possible. Being that you are unable to flush with fresh water i would at the very least recommend applying some sort of treatment inside the engine and keep your anodes fresh.

I am not heavily experienced in marine engines (yet), but i have purchased 2 engines (BF135, BF150) for teardown and analysis. I am looking for a blown 225 next. Currently, I believe the corrosion only happens through the cylinder head itself. I too have heard the rumor that corrosion occurs through the cylinder wall - but the wall of the cylinder in Honda's block is an aluminum casting with iron liner. It is highly improbable water can penetrate this. Sadly, my experience so far has found many mechanics in the boating industry to be scammers, liars and/or incompetent (not far from the auto industry admittedly). And many customers of theirs are unknowingly taken advantage of.

As an engineer, it is deeply troubling to me to see these failures of otherwise fantastic engines due to salt water corrosion. I have a slightly elaborate solution in mind that needs testing, but could potentially resolve this type of issue. I am building a couple test dummy engines, its been a fun learning process for me any my son
 
Full Race Geoff said:
hi James,

I think the BF225 is a fantastic engine and agree to do everything possible to keep going as long as possible. Being that you are unable to flush with fresh water i would at the very least recommend applying some sort of treatment inside the engine and keep your anodes fresh.

I am not heavily experienced in marine engines (yet), but i have purchased 2 engines (BF135, BF150) for teardown and analysis. I am looking for a blown 225 next. Currently, I believe the corrosion only happens through the cylinder head itself. I too have heard the rumor that corrosion occurs through the cylinder wall - but the wall of the cylinder in Honda's block is an aluminum casting with iron liner. It is highly improbable water can penetrate this. Sadly, my experience so far has found many mechanics in the boating industry to be scammers, liars and/or incompetent (not far from the auto industry admittedly). And many customers of theirs are unknowingly taken advantage of.

As an engineer, it is deeply troubling to me to see these failures of otherwise fantastic engines due to salt water corrosion. I have a slightly elaborate solution in mind that needs testing, but could potentially resolve this type of issue. I am building a couple test dummy engines, its been a fun learning process for me any my son
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This is a bit harsh on a lot more techs trying to do the right thing than there are scammers and rip off artists. I just want to say one thing in their defense. When carrying out repairs there are occasions where a "plan" can be made where a border line part can be reused, however, the repairer's name will be mud if it doesn't work and worse still, in many cases lives could be put at risk if stuck out on the water in adverse conditions should engine failure occur. I'm not sure what the point of your post is but sure don't like it very much. I am not sure what you were trying to say but when it comes to paying customers there is only one way to do the job and that is the right way, new parts if there is any defect in the old one. I know of many cases where the customer has insisted on the cheap way and ended up paying a second time round to get it right.
 
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