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  1. #1

    Default First post, Honda 225 issue

    Good afternoon everyone. Just purchased a Robal walk around
    with a 2005 Bf225 outboard. Changed the high and low side filters. Drained the VST. When I throttle up, the boat will start to plane and them it acts like it is starved for fuel and sputters and loses RPM so I throttle back for a few seconds and try again. Usually after a couple tlmes of doing this it will run just fine until I am stopped somewhere and try to throttl up again. I will act like this thru out the day of boating. One more thing I noticed is when I remove the engine cover the low end bowel where the filter is located is only about 1/3 of the way full of fuel. Also when I try to pump up the priming bulb it will raise the fuel level in the bulb but never can pump it til it gets solid full of fuel. Dont know if this could be the issue. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Took it to a Honda dealer, they said the batteries where bad and that could be the issue. Replaced the batteries but did not fix the issue.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    barnegat NJ
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    3,144

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Have you tried pumping the bulb while running in gear

  3. #3

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Didn't seem to make a difference. Couldn’t find any cracks or air leaks in the line or bulb.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    393

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    you need to monitor fuel pressure to see what it is doing. It might be handy to have a dealer hook up DrH too and check what all the sensors are doing. A fault like this is hard to diagnose wihout the proper tools

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Welcome, and congrats on your new acquisition.

    Batteries bad??? Find another dealer.

    As for the low pressure fuel bowl - about 1/3 to 1/2 full is normal, at least on my engine.

    Agree with Ian, monitoring fuel pressure will likely help you zero in on the problem. This engine has six fuel filters and screens. Below is a list and links to www.boats.net to show where they are.

    Fuel filters and screens on BF 200 and BF 225.pdf

    In addition, you likely have an external fuel/water separator. If so, and it has not been changed out, or you don't know, that is something you ought to do. Then test performance again.

    But I'm not sure this is a filter problem. The fact that it runs fine sometimes and not others leads me to believe you have an intermittent fuel flow problem. Sometimes that can be traced to one of the two fuel pumps, but before going there, there are some other diagnostics you can try.

    First make sure that your fuel tank is venting properly. Next time you take the boat out, loosen the fuel filler cab to make sure that the tank is venting well.

    When the engine is bogging down, feel the primer bulb to see if is partially collapsing. If so, you could have a clog on the end of your fuel pick up tube in the tank, or the check valve on the primer bulb is failing. BTW - the arrow on the primer bulb should normally be pointed up in order for the check valve to work properly.

    Consider running a fuel line directly from the fuel pickup coming out of your tank directly to the low pressure fuel filter, then test. That eliminates the primer bulb (which can cause the problem you describe), the external fuel/water separator, the internal fuel/water separator, and a possible pinch in the fuel line where it runs through the big rubber grommet as it goes into the engine compartment. If that eliminates the problem, you know where to look for the restriction.

    If none of that eliminates the problem, come back at us, and provide as much detail as possible.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  6. #6

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Thanks for the replies. CHawk Man, I tried to link but it tells me page not available. Thanks for the info. I thought it only had 2 filters.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Are you saying that the links in the PDF file are not working?

    I'll check and revise if necessary.

    Yep - there are six filers and screens. Four are not even addressed in the maintenance section, Chapter 3, of the Helm Shop Manual. In fact, it has taken me several years to discover all of those filters and screens.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  8. #8

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Also, I have read on this forum about a Helms service manual. Haven't had much luck finding one but what about the Seloc manual? Or can you steer me in the right direction to purchase a Helms or good manual. Thanks

  9. #9

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    Are you saying that the links in the PDF file are not working?

    I'll check and revise if necessary.

    Yep - there are six filers and screens. Four are not even addressed in the maintenance section, Chapter 3, of the Helm Shop Manual. In fact, it has taken me several years to discover all of those filters and screens.
    Yes, when I click and try to open them it tells me pages are not available.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    OK, I've updated the links on the PDF file attached.

    Fuel filters and screens on BF 200 and BF 225.pdf

    Here is the link to the shop manual on eBay. There are to versions of the manual. The version you want does NOT have a "K1" or "K2" on the front page.

    Let me know if this comes through OK>

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-BF200...sid=m570.l1313
    CHawk 25 DLX

  11. #11

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Happyprinter View Post
    Good afternoon everyone. Just purchased a Robal walk around
    with a 2005 Bf225 outboard. Changed the high and low side filters. Drained the VST. When I throttle up, the boat will start to plane and them it acts like it is starved for fuel and sputters and loses RPM so I throttle back for a few seconds and try again. Usually after a couple tlmes of doing this it will run just fine until I am stopped somewhere and try to throttl up again. I will act like this thru out the day of boating. One more thing I noticed is when I remove the engine cover the low end bowel where the filter is located is only about 1/3 of the way full of fuel. Also when I try to pump up the priming bulb it will raise the fuel level in the bulb but never can pump it til it gets solid full of fuel. Dont know if this could be the issue. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Took it to a Honda dealer, they said the batteries where bad and that could be the issue. Replaced the batteries but did not fix the issue.
    i agree with chawk! Find another Honda dealer!

    On your problem, I had the same thing happen to me. The motor runs good at lower rpms but when you get up over 4000 it sputtered like crazy. Well, itís starving for fuel. Gonna tell you where I found my problem. Deposits from the ethanol fuel I used built up between the bottom of the HP fuel pump housing and the screen below the pump which is 16718-zy6-013
    This screen had what looked like sand deposits in it which clogged the screen and blocked fuel from passing which in turn prevented the HP pump from catching up. Maybe draining the bowl would help but that screw at the bottom of the housing isnít stainless and If it was like mine it was rusted so bad I couldnít open it.

    Hope this helps some

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    BTW - Do not waste your money with the Seloc manual - too many errors and omissions.

    Below is the link to the manual on Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Marine-...ne+shop+manual

    Below is a link to the Helm Shop manual on line. It's a pain to use this way.

    http://planbmarine.com/wp-content/up...BF200A-BF2.pdf
    CHawk 25 DLX

  13. #13

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    BTW - Do not waste your money with the Seloc manual - too many errors and omissions.

    Below is the link to the manual on Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Marine-...ne+shop+manual

    Below is a link to the Helm Shop manual on line. It's a pain to use this way.

    http://planbmarine.com/wp-content/up...BF200A-BF2.pdf
    Thanks CHawk and Brian for all your help. CHawk the links work. I also ordered a manual. I thank you for your directions and tomorrow will start begin to trace out a possible cause and make the necessary fixes. I will keep you updated on what I find and what it takes to fix it. Unfortunately after using the closest Honda Dealer, I was not impressed with their service, they seemed to just want to get you out as quickly as possible as they where very busy. It is also 2 hrs from me and not very convenient. I'll need to keep searching for a qualified service tech. Thanks again for your time. I can see this is going to be a very useful and worthwhile forum.

  14. #14

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    BTW - Do not waste your money with the Seloc manual - too many errors and omissions.

    Below is the link to the manual on Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Marine-...ne+shop+manual

    Below is a link to the Helm Shop manual on line. It's a pain to use this way.

    http://planbmarine.com/wp-content/up...BF200A-BF2.pdf
    I wish I had that pdf for my 150!

  15. #15

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Just a quick follow up. I changed out and checked all the fuel filters and screens. Changed out the bulb. Pulled the VST off and opened it up. No water or sediment. The needle and float seem to work freely. Measured float height, OK. Put back together. Changed High pressure pump. Changed out the pressure valve at the top of the port side injector rail. Checked hoses for cracks or leaks, all OK. Took boat out to lake and ran fine half a day. Then at about 3500 rpm it started to cut out again. Back off to idle, then played with it and eventually it took off. Did this several more times the next couple of days on and off.
    Tried pumping the bulb when it acted up but made no difference. Brought it back home, and changed out the low pressure fuel pump. Also checked the fuel/water seperators just in case but they where fine, no water. Will head back out on the lake tomorrow and let you know how it goes. Basically the fuel system is all new now from pumps to filters so hopefully it was the low fuel pump. We will see.

  16. #16
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    Sep 2008
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    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    You said that you "Changed High pressure pump." Did you check/clean the screen on the bottom of the plastic holder that the fuel pump sits in as Bryan suggested?

    You need to check fuel pressure. It should be between 41 and 48 psi at idle. Check it at the pressure relief bolt that is on top of the HP fuel filter cover.

    Just for grins, look at where the fuel line comes into the engine through that big black, round grommet and make sure it's not getting pinched or has collapsed in there.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  17. #17

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Thanks for your reply chawk. Took the bost out today. Launched opened it up , got to plane, backed off to about 5500 rpm and it ran fine. Went about 3 miles and turned it off yo troll with my kicker motor. After about 2 hrs I started it again and it ran for about 20 seconds and all the power to the motor went out. No power at the key or motor itself. Used the kicker to get to shore. Pulled off the top and started to wiggle wires and check connections. Found inside the rubber boot that the smallest wire of the bottom 3 had broken in half and would make vontact if wiggled the right way. I believe it is the neutral but not sure. Siced it back together and it fired right up. Excited thinking that this has been my problem aa along. Put it all back together, started it, throttled up got yo about 3000 rpm, cuts out again. Wont restart. Will turn over but wont start. Acts like it is not getting fuel. Trailerd it and brought it home. When I changed out the high pressure fuel pump I could not see or find a screen. I definitely need to get a gauge and measure the fuel pressure. I will see if I can locate/buy one and check it. I am stumped at what else it could be as I said the fuel system is basically new. When I first launched this morning I did get a error beep. It was thelight on the far right of the key and it was an intermittent beep. I turned off the engine several times to see if it would reset. As I increased rpm it went away. Have to research that in the manual also. Any suggestions would be appreciated and thanks for your help so far.

  18. #18

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Worth getting that fault code. Do you know how to do that? Perhaps a few issues here with a typical faulty oxygen sensor.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    I don't think a faulty HO2 sensor will cause the problem described - it will just run rich.

    The HP fuel pump sits in a plastic holder. On the bottom of that holder is the screen that can get clogged.

    On most of the key switch panels, the far right light is the malfunction indicator light (MIL) and it indicates a problem with the programmed fuel injection.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Single Engine Key Switch Panel with PGM-FI Lights_36452-ZW7-210AH.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	22.5 KB 
ID:	18497

    If you get it running again, you really do need to test the fuel pressure.

    However, given all that you have done with the fuel system, I'm beginning to suspect a possible electrical problem. Before going there, did you check the fuel line running through the big round black grommet as it goes into the engine? They can get pinched in there, or collapse and cut off fuel flow. As I suggested earlier in this thread, you may want to run a temporary fuel line from the fuel pickup out of the tank, directly to the LP fuel filter to bypass all the stuff in between just to eliminate any problem there.

    If you go down the electrical path, the first thing to do is check all the fuses. If you have received your Helm Shop Manual, look at around page 2-20, 2-21 to see what the various fuses control.

    Next, check all of your grounds from the battery forward and make sure the connections are sparkling clean. Flex the wires to see if you hear any crackling. If so, replace. Bypass the battery switch using a pair of auto jumper cables.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  20. #20

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    That picture is my ignition. And it is the far right light that flashes intermitent. I will test the fuel pressure tomorrow and search the electrical and let you know. Thanks again. This forum is great!

  21. #21

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    I will also bypass the fuel line. Just to clarify also. The error it was showing on the far right light. The light was staying red and the alarm was beeping intermitent.
    Last edited by Happyprinter; 08-12-2018 at 02:09 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Attached is a document that shows what the different alarm/light combinations mean.

    BF 225 Alarms.pdf
    CHawk 25 DLX

  23. #23

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Thanks Chawk

  24. #24

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Just put the fuel gauge on the high pressure side. At idle it is showing 90.Hopefully I attached a picture.
    Last edited by Happyprinter; 08-13-2018 at 08:46 PM.

  25. #25
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    Sep 2008
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    No picture.

    However, if you are truly reading reading 90 PSI then you have a clogged filter between the fuel pump and the fuel rail. Or your fuel pressure regulator is shot. Or the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator is disconnected or leaking vacuum. It should be between 41 and 48 psi at idle.

    The basic way the fuel pressure regulator works is that vacuum from the vacuum tank bleeds off fuel pressure based on the amount of vacuum generated by the intake manifold. Heavy or fast acceleration = lower vacuum and less bleed off, allowing more fuel into the fuel rail. So the two reasons for experiencing that level of fuel pressure are 1) clogged filters, or 2) fuel pressure regulator is not allowing the bleed off of pressure.

    Ian, from Down Under, might want to jump in on this issue, since he seems to have some experience with it.

    Also, I think Skooter had a similar problem a while back.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  26. #26

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Further inspection found a vacuum hose had come loose on top where it enters the protective cover. Restarted engine now showing 40-41

  27. #27
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Well, well, well. That sort of explains the problem.

    Let us know how the next sea trial goes.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  28. #28

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Well took the high pressure pump out trying to see if the screen is dirty or blocked. Just to clarify once the pump is removed there is that plastic holder for the pump in the bottom. Does that holder come out to get to the filter. I tugged on it a little but didnt want to pull to hard and break something. Anyway I pit everything back together. Turned on water and started her up. 90 lbs again was the reading. Checked all vacuums, OK. ???

  29. #29

    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Also, after one minute or so getting the same error. Red light on right solid, intermitent beeping.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: First post, Honda 225 issue

    Hmmm. In your post #26 you said you got 40-41 psi. But now it's back up to 90? Is that correct?

    If it is indeed 90, then you need to track down the problem in the fuel line between the HP filter and the fuel rail. Again, the first place to look is the fuel regulator. Also , closely inspect the Fuel Pump Filter 16911-759-003 (over top of VST) and suspension strainer 16915-ZW5-000 (over top of fuel pump filter) See items #7 & #8 at:

    https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/...d-later/piping

    The plastic fuel pump holder does come out with a little work. The screen is on the bottom. However, given your fuel pressure, I doubt that is the problem. See # 29 at:

    https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/...separator-assy
    CHawk 25 DLX

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