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really dumb 454 question

R

realcaptron

Regular Contributor
I have thermo electron 454's in my old boat. I realize the 454's are gm motors. Recently I saw a boat that had 454's but with Chrysler stamped manifolds. So I'm assuming that it's just a different factory marinization of the same motor? Yes? And since I'm asking.....is there any feedback/opinion on the quality of my thermo electron marinized motors vs another company's product?
 
DJR said:
Here is marine surveyor David Pascoe's opinion of Crusaders versus the competition: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasEngines.htm
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yes, I am aware of this article, having read it more than once. My question is/was......is a "Crusader" simply a "Crusader", or are there variants of a "Crusader"? i.e....I repeat, my engines have tags on them identifying them and the gearboxes as "Thermo Electron". But I have seen another boat that has what appears to be "Chrysler" Crusaders. ????
 
realcaptron said:
yes, I am aware of this article, having read it more than once. My question is/was......is a "Crusader" simply a "Crusader", or are there variants of a "Crusader"? i.e....I repeat, my engines have tags on them identifying them and the gearboxes as "Thermo Electron". But I have seen another boat that has what appears to be "Chrysler" Crusaders. ????
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unlikely that Chrysler marine had anything to do with GM big block gas motors, since they had their own. Got a pix?
 
diver_dave said:
unlikely that Chrysler marine had anything to do with GM big block gas motors, since they had their own. Got a pix?
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yeah, Dave....I'm thinking I must have been given bad info or I was seeing things. No pic. I could swear the guy told me he had Crusaders in his boat, but I saw Chrysler stamped on the exhaust manifolds.
 
I had a 440 marinized. As I remember, there is no water passage in the intake manifold. And, perhaps the distributor didn't involve the intake either. there is a large sheet metal pan under the IM too. t's been a while!
 
the only 'versions' of crusader that I'm aware of are informal and determined by who owned the brand name at the time. their design details have evolved over the years but gently vs drastically. One thing that has been constant (as far as I know) is their unique motor mounts.

For the most part, engines start from the engine plant (GM nowadays) as standard production marine builds....and then the marinizer add the bolts ons to complete the package. If their volume is sufficient, they can have some level of customization....most marinizers buy their bolts ons from specialty vendors, ie exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, gears. some do a better job of integrating the package than others and that can vary with the original block size.....
 
makomark said:
the only 'versions' of crusader that I'm aware of are informal and determined by who owned the brand name at the time. their design details have evolved over the years but gently vs drastically. One thing that has been constant (as far as I know) is their unique motor mounts.

For the most part, engines start from the engine plant (GM nowadays) as standard production marine builds....and then the marinizer add the bolts ons to complete the package. If their volume is sufficient, they can have some level of
customization....most marinizers buy their bolts ons from specialty vendors, ie exhaust manifolds, heat exchangers, gears. some do a better job of integrating the package than others and that can vary with the original block size.....
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Mark...thanks for the information. I always like to learn, and even though I consider myself an experienced boater, as you know you and Dave and others have helped me with my current boat on a few different issues to date. I'm sure there will be more. Can you please elaborate on the "unique" motor mounts? I know what mine look like....kind of like sitting on white donuts...but what about their design is the pro vs con attributes.
 
yes, the plastic threaded adjuster comes in both black and white....I've only seen them on crusaders.....most others used what I'll call a mercruiser mount.

The big difference is the crusader concept uses a single lag screw to retain the mount to the stringer and the donut is actually a large screw that does the vertical adjusting with the vibration dampener inside of it....the merc style has a pod (lag screwed to the stringer) for the vibration dampening and a vertical threaded shaft. the trunnion sits over the shaft and the adjustment is by the two nuts on the threaded shaft that 'capture' the eye of the trunnion.

the biggest drawback to the white donuts is they are fragile, esp if the wrong tool is used in their adjustment or the mount has started to corrode (added friction). being unique, they are not cheap...the good is they usually last the full life of the engine. the lags are drawbacks for both, over the long term, as they provide an entrance path for moisture in the stringer.....
 
makomark said:
yes, the plastic threaded adjuster comes in both black and white....I've only seen them on crusaders.....most others used what I'll call a mercruiser mount.

The big difference is the crusader concept uses a single lag screw to retain the mount to the stringer and the donut is actually a large screw that does the vertical adjusting with the vibration dampener inside of it....the merc style has a pod (lag screwed to the stringer) for the vibration dampening and a vertical threaded shaft. the trunnion sits over the shaft and the adjustment is by the two nuts on the threaded shaft that 'capture' the eye of the trunnion.

the biggest drawback to the white donuts is they are fragile, esp if the wrong tool is used in their adjustment or the mount has started to corrode (added friction). being unique, they are not cheap...the good is they usually last the full life of the engine. the lags are drawbacks for both, over the long term, as they provide an entrance path for moisture in the stringer.....
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Thanks Mark.....you have once again contributed to my 45 year long boating education. I appreciate it. I gotta admit to you and Dave and all the others that while not a professional mechanic, but somewhat inclined due to a long career in keeping large printing presses running, I have managed to keep my boats running well enough to enjoy my ocean passion most of my life. My current boat is a beautiful, but old vessel with raw water cooled engines and unknown hours, and I'm hoping I can milk it out for 2-3 years more of enjoyment without a major breakdown with the help of you guys on this forum. And be able to sell it eventually in decent running condition.....fingers crossed., knock on wood.
 
realcaptron said:
yeah, Dave....I'm thinking I must have been given bad info or I was seeing things. No pic. I could swear the guy told me he had Crusaders in his boat, but I saw Chrysler stamped on the exhaust manifolds.
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Probably this.

Way back when, when I was looking to insure my very first boat, I told the agent that it had "Mercruiser Crusaders" in it, thinking that the Crusader was just a more industrial model of a normal Mercruiser engine. He called me back and said it was one or the other but not both, so I had to learn a bit about marine motors!
 
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