Logo
FULL SITE MENU

1995 Volvo penta 5.8fsi with DP-D1 bangs into gear

P

Peck1270

New member
As the title says I have a 1995 Cobalt 222 with a DP-D1 drive that shifts into gear really hard. The motor and drive have 371 hours. I purchased the boat from the original owner. The boat sat most of its life with little use. I was told that the boat was difficult to shift the last time the owner had it in the water. I had the original shifter replaced with a Teleflex and also replaced the throttle and shift cable. Engine and drive fluids were replaced before launching the boat. My previous boat had Alpha drives on it so I was familiar with the way that type of drive shifts. I have read that the Volvo drives shift with an audible "thud", not sure if that is the correct way to describe it. The drive on this boat bangs into gear. It goes into gear so hard that anyone in the boat can feel it. The boat idles a hair over 600 rpm so that isn't the problem. I thought that maybe the shift cable wasn't adjusted correctly so I disconnected the cable at the drive and shifted it by hand. No change. When turning the shifting mechanism on the drive by hand it takes great force to put the boat into gear. When trying to move back to neutral I can't do it by hand because the force it takes to turn the mechanism causes me to overshoot neutral and go into reverse. With all of this being said once underway there is zero vibration in the boat when either accelerating or at top end. Not sure where this puts me at this point. I spoke to a local VP mechanic and he told me this is the way the "swedish" VP drives shift and that it is normal. Could be but I find this hard to believe. Any help is appreciated.
 
.......................
Peck1270 said:
As the title says I have a 1995 Cobalt 222 with a DP-D1 drive that shifts into gear really hard.
Hard as in "hard to move the lever".... or hard as "hits or engages" causing an audible thud or a clunk?

The Engine and drive have 371 hours. I purchased the boat from the original owner. The boat sat most of its life with little use. I was told that the boat was difficult to shift the last time the owner had it in the water. I had the original shifter replaced with a Teleflex and also replaced the throttle and shift cable. Engine and drive fluids were replaced before launching the boat.
The Volvo Penta DP-D drive requires gear oil, not 30W engine oil as with the s/p drives!


My previous boat had Alpha drives on it so I was familiar with the way that type of drive shifts.
Those are Dog Clutch!
The Dog Clutch can't help but to hit hard upon engagement.

I have read that the Volvo drives shift with an audible "thud", not sure if that is the correct way to describe it.
Whoever told you that was thinking in terms of the Pre 290 and/or C drives.

The drive on this boat bangs into gear. It goes into gear so hard that anyone in the boat can feel it. The boat idles a hair over 600 rpm so that isn't the problem. I thought that maybe the shift cable wasn't adjusted correctly so I disconnected the cable at the drive and shifted it by hand. No change. When turning the shifting mechanism on the drive by hand it takes great force to put the Transmission into gear.

When trying to move back to neutral I can't do it by hand because the force it takes to turn the mechanism causes me to overshoot neutral and go into reverse. With all of this being said once underway there is zero vibration in the boat when either accelerating or at top end. Not sure where this puts me at this point. I spoke to a local VP mechanic and he told me this is the way the "swedish" VP drives shift and that it is normal.
WRONG!

Could be but I find this hard to believe. Any help is appreciated.
What gear oil was last installed?
Any water intrusion?
Click to expand...
 
Ricardo,
Thanks for the reply. I will answer the questions below:
1 - The shifter handle moves with normal effort. It's the engagement of the gear whether forward or reverse that engages incredibly hard.
2 - I was not present during the engine or drive service so I cannot speak to whether 30W or 75-90 weight lube was used in the drive. I can say for sure that I pulled the dipstick out of the top of the drive to make sure the level was correct and the level is ok. I could be wrong but it sure doesn't look like 75-90 gear lube.
3 - I am familiar with the shifting of the Alpha drives. I had two on my previous boat. Even with the dog clutch they were much more smooth than the DP-D1 in my present boat.

I figured the guy was full of it when he told me the engagement was normal. This drive makes my old Alphas seem like they were inboard velvet drives when comparing the shift characteristics. When I checked the drive oil level there does not appear to be any water intrusion. Another thing I noticed when moving the shift mechanism by hand (up and down) is that the mechanism moves out a little bit and then back to its normal position. Almost like a detent in the shift mechanism.
 
I have a 1995 5.8Fsi with a DP-C1, and it does the same thing. It's quite the thud/bang when putting it into gear. RPM's are also at the preset 600 (cannot be adjusted). Mine is definitely running gear oil and has had no water intrusion in my history of owning it. Not sure if this helps or not, but I don't think it's your oil that's causing it.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't classify the gear engagement as a thud. More like a heavy bang. Almost like raving a motor up and dumping the clutch. I have searched the internet and YouTube to try to find a video of a boat similar to mine so I could compare the shifting but no luck.
 
Rick, What are your thoughts on this? Mine definitely doesn't make the engine move like that. Could that be a broken motor mount or something like that?
 
Question:
During the video, was the boat on a trailer and was water being supplied by a garden hose......... or was the boat in the water?


I would pick up a new shift mechanism O-ring.
Raise the drive or drain the gear oil.
Remove the shift mechanism and shift shoe.
Look in and see if the sliding sleeve is bronze or steel.

Post back.


.
 
Last edited:
Boat was in the water. To remove the shift mechanism is it the four bolts that surround it? Does it pull straight out once the bolts are removed?

Is it safe to say in your opinion that the shift characteristics are not normal?
 
Peck1270 said:
Boat was in the water. To remove the shift mechanism is it the four bolts that surround it? Does it pull straight out once the bolts are removed?

Is it safe to say in your opinion that the shift characteristics are not normal?
Click to expand...

Yes, the four small bolts will allow you to remove the unit. It will come straight out. The shift shoe will come out with it.

Yes, I would say that your gear engagement should be nice and smooth!
 
Quick and simple explanation of the Volvo Penta cone clutch system.


The transmission's main drive gear rotates the two driven gears during any time that the engine is operating. This is constant.
Each driven gear is equipped with an attached conical gear cup that mirrors the sliding sleeve's profile.

The conical shaped sliding sleeve is free to glide up/down on the vertical shaft's steep spiral cut splines.
The shift shoe holds the sleeve in the neutral position until gear engagement is desired.
The vertical shaft is mechanically connected to the lower gear unit's vertical shaft.
As the shift shoe raises or lowers the sliding sleeve, the sleeve contacts a rotating gear cup.

As the sliding sleeve makes contact with the rotating cup, friction begins to occur.

NOTE: the sliding sleeve incorporates tiny oiling groves (that hold oil) as to lubricate and reduce initial friction.

Via the vertical shaft's steep spiral cut splines, the friction wants to pull the sleeve further into the gear cup.

As the sleeve and cup are achieving contact, the oil film (being held by the oiling groves) is pushed out.
As the oil is being pushed from this surface, more friction is created until the sleeve/cup achieve full contact.
This is designed to create smooth and eventual total "lock-up" into either FWD or REV gear!

Metallic debris on sliding sleeve, incorrect gear oil, water in the gear oil, etc, can all have an effect on how well the system functions.



These images show an earlier version of the V/P cone clutch..... the principle is the same as with the later units.
 

Attachments

  • Cone clutch explained.jpg
    Cone clutch explained.jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 171
  • Cone clutch explained 2 .jpg
    Cone clutch explained 2 .jpg
    86 KB · Views: 1,568
  • Cone clutch explained 3 .jpg
    Cone clutch explained 3 .jpg
    80.4 KB · Views: 166
Last edited:
In the 50s, Volvo Penta began with a bronze sliding sleeve.
The gear cups were polished carbon steel.
The bronze sleeves appeared to hold up well.
While V/P has never published this, these 3 components can be “lapped in” to renew their function.

At one point Volvo Penta experimented with a special coated steel sliding sleeve with coated gear cups.
These 3 components cannot be lapped in.

.
 
Rick,
Thanks for the explanation. I picked up the O-ring today ad will report back once I have had the opportunity to remove the shift mechanism and look at the material. I know its difficult to tell from a 10 second video but do you think that having the incorrect oil in the drive could cause that hard of a shift? Like I stated previously I paid for the engine and drive service when I bought the boat since it had been sitting for a while so I have no idea what oil was put in the drive. If it is a case of incorrect oil then will draining it and filling with 75-90 be sufficient or is this a case where the cone and sleeve will need to be lapped in?
 
In order to lap the bronze sleeve and gear cups, the transmission must be completely disassembled!
If we keep all shims as they were, it’s not a difficult job.
 
Rick,
I removed the shift cover but I can't tell what type of material the sleeve is. It looks like I have water in the drive oil. I posted three video links. One shows the sliding sleeve, one shows the shift mechanism (not sure if there is any damage on the metal housing in the video and the last shows the shift mechanism being actuated and I believe the seal there may be the area where the water is coming in. I picked up a seal for the shift mechanism today after seeing the condition of it. Can you tell me if the shoe looks ok as well as the rest of the mechanism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59kINVBRz4I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxlH8vCe0Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGg4Y9KRF9A
 
Rick is the expert, but yes, it looks like water in oil in the drive. I also don't remember seeing that kind of scoring on my dog when I pulled it out last. And in the 3rd video where you are "shifting" , it looks like your sealing ring is messed up. Seems loose and looks like it's lifting. It's probably torn, and that's probably where your water is coming in. We'll see what Dr. Rick says.

I'd also get fresh O-rings for your top dipstick, top fill hole, and your bottom drain plug.
 
Last edited:
When you say dog are you referring to the shift shoe? I thought the scoring was odd as well. I am going to replace the seal tomorrow morning. I am hoping that's where the water came in. I will wait for Rick to take a look at the videos and give me his take on it. I really appreciate all of the assistance.
 
Correct...... there is no shift dog!
The part that raises and lowers the sliding sleeve is a “shift shoe”.
The shift shoe is operated by the eccentric piston.
By the way, your eccentric piston seal should be replaced.
NOTE; this seal is directional!

From what I see in the first video, you have the special coated steel sliding sleeve. These cannot be lapped!

Bad news is, this sleeve is part of a gear set!$$$$$

I would take the transmission completely apart, remove the sliding sleeve and inspect the tiny little grooves and inspect the gear cups!

Try using a synthetic gear oil this time.


.
 
Rick,
So short of either getting a replacement transmission or rebuilding this one am I pretty much toast? If I get a replacement transmission is there one that I need to look for over another? By this I meanis the 1.95 gear ratio determined by the transmission or the intermediate, lower unit. Do you think that by replacing the seals and getting the water intrusion problem rectified I will be ok to use the drive after new oil?
 
With exception to the Diesel engine “E” drive, all transmissions are of the same reduction. The overall or final reduction “differences” (I.E., 2.30:1, 1.95:1 or 1.78:1) occur within the lower gear set.
In other words, the final drive reduction is a combination of the transmission reduction and the lower gear unit reduction!!!

For a Diesel engine (more torque), if a final drive reduction of 2.30:1 was needed, the E transmission could be used with the DP 1.95:1 gear set, giving you a final reduction of 2.30:1.
(the 2.30:1 gear set is not stout!)

point being....... if your transmission is an E, you will want to replace it with an E!

I would still pull apart and inspect the sleeve’s oiling grooves.
Using a fine pointed instrument, pick any metallic debris out of the groves.
 
Last edited:
Rick,
Am I correct in my thinking that I can pull the transmission without the entire drive? What needs to be removed besides the u joint bellows?
 
Yes...... we always remove the transmission by itself and/or first.
It is always reinstalled by itself and last!

Please get yourself an OEM workshop manual!
 
Back
Top