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'93 Evinrude 150, dies in gear

Projectus

Contributing Member
1993 Evinrude 150hp V6 Intruder Spitfire Series, VE150GLETG.

The problem with this outboard has always been (for the 5 months I’ve owned it) stalling when put into forward or reverse. It doesn’t always happen, but 19 out of 20 attempts at shifting, it dies.
The last time I had the boat fully launched was the day after Thanksgiving. It took a long time to get it to stay running in gear, but when it did, it ran very well. And that’s how it’s been every time I’ve had the boat in the water, which is only 6 or 7 times. With the exception of once in October, after I ran concentrated SeaFoam from a separate tank of fresh mixed fuel. It did its smoke-like-heck thing, and I took it to the nearby launch. It started easily, idled evenly, and I was able to shift into forward and reverse with no stalling, hesitation, or anything bad. I thought I was good-to-go. A week later, I took the boat fishing, and had the same trouble with it dying when put into gear about 19 times out of 20. Perhaps my regular gas tank has some crud or water in it, and when I switched back to it, I crudded it up again. I did drain the tank, but not completely dry - there was still a half gallon or so of who-knows-how-old gas. I replaced the second gas line and primer bulb, but there is a line before it, from the tank. It’s interrupted where it goes through the hull. I know it’s clear, but do not know if it’s shedding its lining.

I’ve had this outboard only since late September. It used to start-up pretty well, but now it takes a lot of attempts. After a while, it’ll cough once. Then cough twice for a few attempts. After about 5 more attempts, cough or no cough, it will start and idle. There’s a fair amount of white smoke, but it could still be left over from some carb cleaner earlier today and yesterday. Or maybe it’s just stale gas. There is Stabil in it, but the gas is from late November.

Yesterday, I took it to a launch on Lake Michigan to get some real back pressure. It idled fairly well after hard starting at about 625 RPMs according to the tach on the dash, but would sneeze/stumble and drop periodically to 400 RPMs, then come right back up to about 625. I was only

Today I pulled all 6 carbs again and really cleaned them out, made sure every orifice was clear. All floats appear in good positions and move freely, and all needles moved well. I didn’t like a couple gaskets (0335067 SEAL, Carb body) as they seem stretched, too big for their purpose, and I really can’t see them seating correctly between the carb and the throttle body assembly. I made sure the tiny orifices in the throttle body walls were clear by spraying carb cleaner and seeing it come spraying through.

Today in carb #5, I found that the high speed orifice behind the bowl screw plug was not threaded in, so I tightened that up. That probably has nothing to do with with the in-gear stalling problem, but I’m trying to be thorough in my description. My overall impression of the carbs is that they are clean, but some of the bowls look a little warped. I sanded a few of them down a little.

I bought a spark tester today, and saw consistent spark on all 6 plugs. It was purplish in color. I did not buy an open air spark tester to see how far they could jump, but I will purchase one tomorrow. All 6 plugs were wet with oil, and a little dark, but not gunked or cracked. All gaps were 0.03.

While (eventually) idling on the muffs today after cleaning the carbs, I manually depressed the shift interrupter switch, and heard the starboard cylinders 1, 3 and 5 shut down. That did not occur yesterday. Then I disconnected the plugs on 2, 4 and 6 and manually depressed the interrupter switch again, and the engine quit. The switch seems to be doing what it should. But yesterday, before cleaning carbs 1, 3 and 5, manually depressing the interrupter switch seemed to do nothing.

I rented a compression gauge today from O’Reilly. I got 20-30psi on all 6 cylinders. Yes, the engine shifts into forward and reverse on the muffs with no trouble at all, but I am hoping the rented gauge was malfunctioning. If the compression is that low, I don’t know that the engine would have ever idled in water, much less occasionally run great at high RPMs in gear. I assume if compression is toast, it’s toast, not-come-and-go. The exhaust in the water makes a good amount of turbulence.

Yesterday at the launch, I was able to get it to stay running when put into gear only a couple times out of many attempts. I was trying it with the interrupter switch removed from the shift mechanism the whole time. I couldn’t reach far enough to reconnect it, and I was feezing my arse off. It’s pretty cold yet in Wisconsin.

Please ask me any questions you can think of. I’m a full-time single dad of two young kids (get yer violins out), and money is definitely an object.

 
New information...
I've run the engine on the muffs a few times since verifying all orifices and passages were clear. I checked the port carbs (2, 4 and 6) and sprayed carb cleaner through the "orifice" shown in the photo, and the carb cleaner should be spraying out of the tiny holes in the throttle body. It's not now. It's coming out of the main tube inside the carb. (See photo) Is it possible that I have crud in the fuel lines and/or tank, and each time I'm running the engine, I'm just causing clogs again? The shift interrupter switch, shuts down the starboard carbs (1, 3 and 5), so if I'm constantly clogging the port carbs, I suppose that would kill the engine when shifting.
(The photo is not of my carb, it's just a carb from the web with the same part number.)
Although, it does shift without issue on the muffs. s-1600.jpg
 
And, I rented a new compression gauge. The first one was shot. 6 cylinders: high was 98psi, low was 95psi. Fantastic news.
 
It still sounds like you might not be firing on all cylinders. Try doing a drop test on each cylinder. Did you run a piece of wire through the low speed jets when you cleaned the carbs?
 
I'll have to watch a few videos for the leak down test, and rent the tester.
I didn't run a tiny wire through anything when I had the carbs off. I relied on a very bright flashlight to see that things were clear.
Now the engine will only start, when cold, if I spray a tiny amount of carb cleaner into the throttle body behind a carb. Then it fires up immediately, and will start again as long as it's warm. This is a new problem.
But I still have the biggest problem of the engine dying as soon as I shift into either gear. And then once in a while, it doesn't die, and runs like a champ. It's hard to figure out why it will usually die when shifted, but not always.
 
It still sounds like you might not be firing on all cylinders. Try doing a drop test on each cylinder. Did you run a piece of wire through the low speed jets when you cleaned the carbs?

I finally tested the wires. All 6 jump a 1/2 inch gap, and their color is mostly blue/purple. I also tested the plugs with an in-line tester, and they all fire.
I'm heading to the launch to see if a higher idle will help with the engine dying when shifting into gear.
 
The mystery deepens...I just took the boat to a launch to see if a higher idle helped with the stalling-when-shifting problem. It did. It didn’t sound thrilled about it, and it wanted to bog out a couple times, but overall I’m glad that it improved.

Two things I noticed at the launch:

1. There was no turbulence in the water from the exhaust. Nothing. Totally still. Usually the water is very turbulent from where exhaust is coming out at the prop. I would only see some turbulence if I quickly bumped the throttle, then nothing. This is really concerning me. There was some exhaust about the water line where there always is.

2. The engine ran poorly unless I choked a port side carb with my hand quickly. Then it seemed the whole port side woke up and started firing. After a little while, they’d die and I would have to cover an air intake again with my hand, and they come back alive. It didn’t seem to matter which carb on the port side (2, 4, and 6). If I choked the starboard carbs with my hand, it made the engine want to conk out a little. It certainly didn’t cause an improvement like choking the port side.

 
Hello all.
I'm still struggling with this beast. I've had the boat out a couple times this spring, and the stalling when shifting is still happening most of the time. However, I've found that instead of just shifting nicely and normally into forward, more of a hole shot will keep it from stalling. Does that set off any lightbulbs for anyone? A nice, slow shift and trying to throttle up gently usually makes the engine quit. But more of a hole shot shift will usually keep it running. When it stays running, it runs very well. I'm hoping this might give someone an idea.
Thank you for all the help.
1993 Evinrude 150hp V6 Intruder VE150GLETG
 
Maybe this will help too somehow.
The spark lever has a stripped screw and won't tighten. It has to travel about an inch before the roller will meet the spark cam.
Maybe this is why a "hole shot" shift will keep the engine running, but a slower shift will make it die?

Hello all.
I'm still struggling with this beast. I've had the boat out a couple times this spring, and the stalling when shifting is still happening most of the time. However, I've found that instead of just shifting nicely and normally into forward, more of a hole shot will keep it from stalling. Does that set off any lightbulbs for anyone? A nice, slow shift and trying to throttle up gently usually makes the engine quit. But more of a hole shot shift will usually keep it running. When it stays running, it runs very well. I'm hoping this might give someone an idea.
Thank you for all the help.
1993 Evinrude 150hp V6 Intruder VE150GLETG
 
I actually think I'm on to something here. Finally.
If I shift to forward, and that roller needs that much distance to touch the spark cam, there is some serious hesitation, and the motor quits.
If I go into gear like a hole-shot, the advance happens quickly and the motor doesn't have a chance to quit.
Does that sound right? Racerone? :)
 
My 2c. An inch is like a mile whe it comes to the synchronization between spark and carb timing. So yes you should definitely be onto something.
keep going here.
 
And because the roller occasionally stays close to the spark cam, the motor occasionally does not die when shifting. But 9 times out of 10, it situates itself about an inch away after returning to neutral. I think this has been my problem all along.
I'll order a new arm or get that screw to tighten and report back.
 
You have really good spark if it jumped 1/2". You have OK compression. You said you cleaned all the carb jet and orifices with spray can and straw(I use CRC Isopropyl Alcohol spray, it does not harm the plastic parts on the carb and does not etch the aluminum) till you saw the spray come out the other side.

Did you do a link & synch? Your Evinrude manual tells you how, step by step.
 
Thanks for the response.
I was reading through the link and sync procedure in the manual, while looking over the components on the motor. When I got to the "Spark/Throttle Pickup Point" section, I realized how far away the roller was from the throttle cam. I'll attach a photo. I shifted from neutral to forward and back again several times while watching the linkage. Sometimes after shifting back to neutral, the roller will stay near or just touching the throttle cam, where it should be. But most times after shifting back to neutral, the roller ends up an inch away. I think this explains why the engine usually quit when shifting, but not every single time.
The roller won't stay where it should after shifting to neutral because the screw on the spark lever is stripped out - doesn't get a bite anymore. ($13 dollar part. $8.50 for shipping.)
After I get the new spark lever part, I'll do the full link and sync procedure. I really think this will solve the dying-when-shifting problem. It seems to make a lot of sense, right?20180514_180213 - Edited.jpg
 
180624_173339_COLLAGE-1 (1).jpg180624_174403_COLLAGE-1 - Edited.jpg
I thought I should post about what solved my issue of stalling when shifting into gear.
It was a stripped screw on the spark lever. It caused the roller to not stay in contact with the throttle cam. So, when shifting from neutral into forward (or reverse) the roller was just way too far away from the throttle cam, and it would die.
I'm attaching a couple pictures. One shows how far away the roller was from the throttle cam, and next to it shows where it should be. The silver screw and washer below my red pointer is the problem.
The other picture is a ridiculous, but easy way to make sure this was the problem. I put some zip ties in there to snug-up the screw, and make sure the roller couldn't get pulled all the way back, and took the boat out. Full success, no stalling at all.
 
View attachment 18107View attachment 18108
I thought I should post about what solved my issue of stalling when shifting into gear.
It was a stripped screw on the spark lever. It caused the roller to not stay in contact with the throttle cam. So, when shifting from neutral into forward (or reverse) the roller was just way too far away from the throttle cam, and it would die.
I'm attaching a couple pictures. One shows how far away the roller was from the throttle cam, and next to it shows where it should be. The silver screw and washer below my red pointer is the problem.
The other picture is a ridiculous, but easy way to make sure this was the problem. I put some zip ties in there to snug-up the screw, and make sure the roller couldn't get pulled all the way back, and took the boat out. Full success, no stalling at all.


Hello,

The way the "reply with quotes" works on this forum is a bit confusing, I also sent you a private message on this topic...

I'm having the same issue on an incredibly smooth running '95 Evinrude 150. I went on to ask you how difficult it was to replace that part. I was also wondering if your engine has the oil injection pump, and if you use it, or if you bypassed it.

One last question is, where did you get your engine manual from?

This was an incredibly helpful post. A lot of guys are having the exact same problem, and I personally don't like simply adjusting the RPM's as a fix to this, because that is harder on the transmission when engaging in forward or reverse. It's also the kind of problem that a mechanic will charge you a fortune to fix (after multiple trips to diagnose).

Mine is a perfect idle, perfect WOT performance...it's just this low-gear stall that is happening more and more. Not a ton, but enough to make me want to stay ahead of the issue. ESPECIALLY, if this is a simple fix with a cheap part.

Thanks for all you've done with the research with this thread,

John
 
Hi John, just got your message.

This seems like an eternity ago, but it was only a few years.
I think I got my manual from eBay after a helpful poster pointed me to it. I'll see if I can come up with the link. That was one good purchase.

When I bought this boat from the second owner, the oil pump system had been removed. So, I mix.

I did look at replacing the spark lever and I think it was very inexpensive. The plastic pieces just wear a little over time, and a screw can lose some of its "bite." In my case, it just didn't have enough bite left to keep it where it should be at all times.

The temporary fix I used with the zip-ties to snug-up the screw's bite worked perfectly, and this issue has remained in the rear view mirror since then. This may sound like a real hack move, but I just trimmed the zip-ties and left them. I didn't purchase replacement parts. It just didn't seem necessary. I do think that using replacements parts would be ve best accompanied by a link and sync.

After troubleshooting so many different possibilities, it was really satisfying to discover it was something so simple. I'll see what I can find in previous threads about the manual and let you know.
 
Hi John, just got your message.

This seems like an eternity ago, but it was only a few years.
I think I got my manual from eBay after a helpful poster pointed me to it. I'll see if I can come up with the link. That was one good purchase.

When I bought this boat from the second owner, the oil pump system had been removed. So, I mix.

I did look at replacing the spark lever and I think it was very inexpensive. The plastic pieces just wear a little over time, and a screw can lose some of its "bite." In my case, it just didn't have enough bite left to keep it where it should be at all times.

The temporary fix I used with the zip-ties to snug-up the screw's bite worked perfectly, and this issue has remained in the rear view mirror since then. This may sound like a real hack move, but I just trimmed the zip-ties and left them. I didn't purchase replacement parts. It just didn't seem necessary. I do think that using replacements parts would be ve best accompanied by a link and sync.

After troubleshooting so many different possibilities, it was really satisfying to discover it was something so simple. I'll see what I can find in previous threads about the manual and let you know.


It worked!...I got a reply (for once)! LOL.

So, that part itself is called the "Spark lever sensor"?? I thought I saw in one of your replies that you found the replacement parts for very cheap. I just downloaded a manual for my engine, but the graphics are poor. I may see if I can't find an actual book online. They seem incredibly expensive from what little research I've done, so far.....go figure.

On the pics I can see where you're pointing at what looks like the screw head, then the next set of pic's that shows the zip ties, but it appears to look entirely different. Obviously, you removed some pieces going from the first pic, to the second with the zip ties. That's where I get a bit lost.

I really want to try that zip tie (or something similar) approach, before purchasing parts, just to make sure that's what's causing it. I'm also thinking of disconnecting that oil pump. I've never had an issue with it, but after a month of sitting, I took it out to run it, and had it runnng at WOT, and the no oil warning came on. Then I slowed down to an idle, and it went away. I'm hoping it's just a fluke, but, as you can imagine "no oil" warnings of any type scare the hell out of me. Apparently, as much of a bad rep as people give that pump, apparently they rarely go bad. I'll see if I can't find another thread on here about that "no-oil" light.

Thanks a million for that quick reply. Yes, if you get around to it, any more info on that would be appreciated.

John
 
The reason the situation looks different between the photos is because the sensor cover is removed in the first photos, and replaced in the second photos. It is attached with 3 bolts. Cover, Sensor.jpg
 
Curious if you got anywhere with the engine trouble.

Hello, friend.....thank you for checking in. You know, it wasn't a week after I posted my concern when I wound up being a 24/7 caretaker for my mother. And, every interest/hobby I had took a back seat to that. That said, I still have the boat, and just cleaned it up trying to get it ready for some fall & winter fishing down here in FL. So, I've still got to figure out what's causing it, but to my absolute reluctance, I just don't have time to do it myself. So, I'm forced to have a mechanic look at it when I have it tuned up. And, that always worries me, given you could take your engine in for a simple oil change, and somehow it would wind up costing $2K. The good news is short of that one issue, it ran like a bat out of hell....and I'm otherwise thrilled with the boat.

So, all I can do at this point is post whatever the mechanic says. It will either be fixed affordably, or I'll wind up right back here hoping or some more advice. I'm not going to let some dude charge me an insane amount of money to fix a low idle/stall when putting into gear at a low RPM.

Anyway, I'll post back when I have more info. Thank you again for checking in.

John
 
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