Expert Johnson Advice

Hi,

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]Was hoping if anyone may have some experience on what may be wrong with my 65ESL72S?[/FONT]
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[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]The motor starts first time almost every time goes into forward and reverse and looks great in a tub or with earmuffs on[/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]but as soon as I take the boat out in the lake it has no power or thrust under load.[/FONT]
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[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]I have checked the prop by drawing a line on the back hub to see if it is slipping and it is not.[/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal] [/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]I have also changed the gear oil to a type C which is recommended for the hydroelectric shift.[/FONT]
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[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]The marine mechanics that are in my area in Australia are not experienced at all with this motor at all.[/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal] [/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]Any ideas or knowledge you may regarding this issue would be greatly appreciated.[/FONT]
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Do a cylinder drop test it sounds like it is missing a cylinder? While running in a barrel pull a plug wire and then put it back on. It should react the same pn all cylinders. Get back with the results. A compression test and a spark gap test would be next. How big is the boat? Is the hull clean? Have you tried different trim angles. Does the engine rev high or is it dogging out?

I have done a compression test with all 3 cylinders right around 130. It is on an old Glastron about 14ft and yes the hull is clean. Yeah when i take it out on the lake the engine will rev but the boat goes absolutely no where. Mechanic in my area in Australia say its a solenoid problem in the lower unti but if that was the case why does it still go in and out of gear. Very confused.

can you get your hands on another known good prop? Racer will know better where to go from here not sure if the hydro electric uses type C gearoil?

Yeah i am a novice I was told to draw a line on the back of hub and put it in the lake and test it that way. The line was still in perfect alignment.

Yeah there is no grinding or chattering when it is running or shifting gears.

I'm not even sure of the replacement prop i need as the numbers are not visible on it anymore and hesitant to spend a couple of hundred if its not that.

Not even sure of the prop replacement number as there is no numbers on the prop?

The type C gear oil is just what everyone on line has been telling me to use.

Bypassed your email to answer here.

Paulnixon said:

Engine Model [FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]65ESL72S
1 - - M[/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]otor goes into forward and reverse with earmuffs - I[/FONT][FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]n the lake it has no thrust under load.[/FONT]
2 --C[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]hecked prop - Drew line on back hub - It is not slipping.[/FONT]
3 --[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]Gear oil changed to Type C.[/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]4 - - Marine mechanics in my Australia are not experienced with this motor.[/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]Any ideas or knowledge you may regarding this issue would be greatly appreciated.[/FONT]

Click to expand...

1 - The cavitation plate just above the propeller... Where is it in relation to the keel? (bottom of boat at transom?). Your propeller may not be in the proper position.

2 - Was the line you drew one constant line straight through the bronze hub and the propeller that surrounds it? You don't say, and if not, that proves nothing

3 - Yes, Type "C" gearlube is mandatory on "all" types of electric shift engines (yours), also Assist Shift models. When and if "HighVis" was used, that would prevent proper shifting... however, usually, forward would be okay.

4 - There's not many of us left in the world that worked on those models when they were new and had the opportunity to learn the system... not just Australia .

When you shift into forward... does the boat suddenly start to move forward as it should?
Does the engine propel the boat normally up to a certain speed... and then this problem appears?
When this problem appears... it is a case that the engine rpms increase and the boat slows down?

Does it move forward and just wont rev up or does it rev up and don't go forward???

The cavitation plate is pointing towards the rear of the boat i guess.

I took a hole punch and made 4 small marks on in line on the bronze hub and the prop that surrounds it and all the marks still lined up perfectly.

Yeah I know I inherited the boat from my grand dad so it has sentimental value to me and all marine mechanics i speak to won't touch it.

No when i shift it into forward it does nothing.

Doesn't propel boat at all. unfortunately

Revs up and goes nowhere mate.

Does the prop turn at all when engine is running???

It should be in forward gear when not running. Is it?

You say the cavitation plate is pointing toward the rear of the boat. That isn't much of a description. If the motor is sitting too high, it will slip (ventilate) badly as you attempt to speed up. Yeah, that's four ways it can slip.

Yeah it spins and looks great in a tub or with earmuffs on it

Yeah it is in forward when it is not running.

There is small plate just above the prop about 12cm in diameter with a 10mm bolt thru the middle of it with a point edge on one side pointing to the rear of the boat

The round thing you're describing is the Trim Tab.

The cavitation plate is the long flange flange just above the propeller that runs from the front of the lower unit all the way to the back. It normally would be about 3/4" below the bottom of the boat at the keel. Seeing that the boat belonged to your dad... I think we can safely assume that it is set at its proper height.

In the water, when you shift into forward, the shifter clutch dog within the lower unit which is spring loaded should mechanically slam into forward gear WITH NO VOLTAGE being applied to either shift solenoid. Voltage is applied ONLY when in reverse or neutral.... AS FOLLOWS:

Has anyone been messing around with the wiring pertaining to the shifting?

********************
(Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE 1 -The ohm reading of the individual shift solenoids should be between 5 to 6 ohms. The ohm meter should be set to low ohms. The shift wires leading to the solenoids must be disconnected when being tested.

NOTE 2 - The solenoid plunger measurement must be made with the solenoid placed within the lower unit. The measurement must be approximately 1/64" beneath the top surface of the solenoid... NOT above the solenoid surface nor any lower than 1/64" of the solenoid surface. This factory measurement is critical and will not ever change UNLESS someone has tinkered with it.

The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.

In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)

To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.

This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).

With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire.

No one has messed around with the shifting wiring.

Yeah I have been having this frustrating problem for about 3 months and found the same explanation and the hydroelectric explained 2 months online and I have
done all the things in your last reply. No one seems to have an answer.

You are looking for gearcase issues.------Likely the motor is running on 2 cylinders of 3.----Trouble shooting is easy.-----Compression test is # 1 ----Check for spark on all 3 leads.----Check reed valves.----Check flywheel key.------Hole in the block.----Make sure high speed jets in carburetor bowls are clean !--Etc, Etc.

Every advice I've received has pointed to the gearbox in the lower unit. I have done a compression test all cylinders around 130.

All leads have a spark. Not sure how to check the reed valve or the flywheel key.

No hole in the block and yeah carbies are clean.

With the ignition switch off does the prop spin free? What kind of controls do you have? In forward gear you should not have power to either wire going down into the gearbox. You can disconnect both wires going to the gearbox and it should be in forward gear by default.

No with the ignition off it is always in forward as no current is running. Prop will not free spin. goes in and out of gear when running smoothly and kicks alot of water up when running in the tub but as soon as i take it to the lake it goes nowhere. just revs and i have to use oars with a mate to get back to shore.

Everyone's telling me to throw it away but I can't shake the feeling that it maybe something simple.

take a pic of the prop level with the bottom of the boat? How tall is the transom from the motor to the keel?

Maybe I missed it but what do the upper drive shaft splines look like ??

yeah they look fine there is no chattering or grinding noise as well when running or shifting gears.

Hi,

Please see pics attached i have tried to motor at a couple of different levels with the holes available but dont think this would stop it moving in the water?

That prop looks like it has been grinding the riverbed for some time. If it shifts into forward and reverse you should hear it shift. Trim the motor so the fin is level with the keel. Have you pulled the lower unit? I’m leaning toward stripped splines on the driveshaft or crank do you know how old the impeller is?

yeah the prop has a few knicks on it. When i do shift from forward to reverse it is very quiet but i can see the prop change direction quite quickly. Yeah i have pulled the lower unit and the splines on the driveshaft looked fine. Not too sure how old the impeller in the water pump is but it pumps plenty of water in a tub thru all the tell tales.

Yeah very confusing.

I'm really sorry I'm really just a novice when it comes to boats.

I understand now what the cavitation plate is and where it should be in relation to the bottom of the boat.

The cavitation plate is about 2-2.5cm under the bottom of the boat.

The mechanics I have spoken to have only been over the phone as I cant find anyone who will work on it as they say its too old.

Frustrating.

I also just wanted to add the boat goes absolutely nowhere when it is the water no drive at all.

Even if the cavitation plate was too high wouldn't it push the boat not even a little bit?