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Upgrading to 1st gen ETEC 200HP from 04 carbed 2stroke for fuel efficiency

T

TheBrain

Regular Contributor
Upgrading to 1[SUP]st[/SUP] gen ETEC 200HP from 04 carbed 2stroke for fuel efficiency

?1.I think my rigging throttle/gear select cable control box will be reused.

?2.Not sure about transplanting seastar hydrolic steering cylinder?


?3.Curious what I can sell along w/ when I sell my motor? I keep rigging.

Like normally when buying used motors wireharness /tach/warning guage ect. Are included correct?

I relieze theres a gamble w/ these ETECs EMM faulty computers.

Usalley upon EMM failure motor shuts down inoperable leaving you stranded.
Apparently this part for 07/ is unavailable to a none dealer.
[h=1]0586707 - Matching & Equivalent Parts[/h][h=1]I’ve read installed EMM at dealer$hip part alone is $1500. labor who knows[/h][h=1]Can’t be more than 1 hour?[/h][h=1][/h][h=1]Additionally I’ve read ETECs use a very expensive 2 stroke oil.[/h][h=1]?4.is there a more ecomonical 2 stroke oil alternative to OMC oil?[/h][h=1][/h][h=1]Thanks for tips [/h]
 
You wont save enough $$ in gas to pay for repairs if it breaks....save your $$ towards a newer motor or trade in with warranty.
 
I thought the ETEC's were pretty reliable after Bombardier purchased the OMC assets and corrected the FICHT failures. Is that not correct? If so, what problems were typical in the ETEC engines?

I agree with FAZTBULLET, unless your current '04 engine is shot I don't really see the gain in paying to upgrade to another used motor. Spending that $$ to save a bit on fuel efficiency isn't gaining you much, if anything.

To answer a few questions:
1) Don't know if your '04 shift/throttle controls are compatible.

2) The SeaStar hydraulic steering should work fine on the ETEC 200.

3) Does the '04 have a system check gauge and/or tach? Does the ETEC use something different? If the ETEC gauges are different you should probably let the System Check gauges go with your current motor.

The ETEC oil is not all that expensive. You can use Evinrude Semi-Synthetic which is available at Wal-Mart stores for $30/gallon:https://www.walmart.com/ip/Evinrude-Johnson-Semi-Synthetic-Outboard-Oil/24091064

Or you can purchase Evinrude XD50 for about the same price. There is also Evinrude XD100 for $40/gallon: https://www.walmart.com/ip/OEM-BRP-...Outboard-Motor-Oil-1-Gallon-0764357/494825277

To take advantage of the benefits on the XD100, which significantly reduces oil consumption rate, the EMM has to be programmed for that oil type. Seriously though, the ETEC uses much less oil than a similar carb'd V6, so you can use the $30/gallon oil just fine. And....it will last for a long time so I wouldn't be all that worried about the oil cost.
 
It 13 years old and parts are getting thin as BRP has quit supporting anything over 10 years old. Injector fails $600,Lift pump $400, Fuel pump HP $500, EMM $1700 and then finding a dealer that can successfully wok on it.
 
faztbullet said:
It 13 years old and parts are getting thin as BRP has quit supporting anything over 10 years old. Injector fails $600,Lift pump $400, Fuel pump HP $500, EMM $1700 and then finding a dealer that can successfully wok on it.
Click to expand...
Point taken. Not so much an issue with inherent design flaws but rather just the age of the motor and parts availability.

My '96 Evinrude Intruder 150 is the newest outboard I've ever owned. I guess I'm spoiled because my 21 year old motor runs just fine and there are still plenty of parts available for it.

The OP uses his motor in the Gulf of Mexico. Personally, I would want the relative simplicity of the 2004 Ocean Runner 175HP he currently has on the boat. Yes, that engine does have the optical ignition system so there are some sensors that can go bad, but overall it's a much simpler engine than the Etec. I would feel more confident being offshore with a 13 year old carb'd motor than a 13 year old DI motor that has many more electronic components that can go bad. I work in a very high tech industry, but I can tell you there are places I would much prefer the things that are simpler.

KJ
 
faztbullet said:
You wont save enough $$ in gas to pay for repairs if it breaks....save your $$ towards a newer motor or trade in with warranty.
Click to expand...
saving $ on fuel is allways nice however in my case I need better MPG for a 3 day cruise or a 2.5 day cruise.

this 04 carbed 2 stroke is thristhy I currently have 15gallon primary tank, 2 /6 gallon and a 15 gallon storage tank. it's not enought for all my cruising needs.

I was thinking w/ improved MPG I wouldn't need to adjust my current fuel tanks situation.

my main concern w/ e-tec is the EMM going fualty. like anyone off the steert can't buy one it's only available from a dealer? correct.
 
TheBrain said:
saving $ on fuel is allways nice however in my case I need better MPG for a 3 day cruise or a 2.5 day cruise.

this 04 carbed 2 stroke is thristhy I currently have 15gallon primary tank, 2 /6 gallon and a 15 gallon storage tank. it's not enought for all my cruising needs.

I was thinking w/ improved MPG I wouldn't need to adjust my current fuel tanks situation.

my main concern w/ e-tec is the EMM going faulty. like anyone off the street can't buy one it's only available from a dealer? correct.
Click to expand...

So 42 gallons won't last for the extended cruise? Hmm, that is a problem. The ETEC's are definitely more fuel efficient, but I don't know how much of a difference in comparison to your carb'd motor. What about increasing fuel capacity in your boat? How is your currnet main fuel tank configured? Could you install saddle tanks on each side of the boat? A permanent 20 gallon tank on each side plus your current 15 gallon tank would give you plenty of fuel capacity.

http://moellermarine.com/moeller-ma...n-permanent-below-deck-boat-fuel-tank-032818/

I have no direct experience, but there are independent shops like DFI Technologies that repair failed EMM's. http://www.dfitechnologies.com/
I know one main failure point on DFI jet skis is there is a small cooling hose that runs through a passage in the EMM. Those passages often get clogged, the EMM overheats, and the circuits get cooked. I don't know if that same issue exists on ETEC's (or other DFI outboards) but it seems like simple maintenance of checking the cooling circuit goes a long way toward avoiding problems.
 
You may need to look at a four stroke........the numbers aint there for your fuel capacity. My bassboat holds more fuel than that(55gallons)
 
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kevinj said:
I thought the ETEC's were pretty reliable after Bombardier purchased the OMC assets and corrected the FICHT failures. Is that not correct? If so, what problems were typical in the ETEC engines?

I agree with FAZTBULLET, unless your current '04 engine is shot I don't really see the gain in paying to upgrade to another used motor. Spending that $$ to save a bit on fuel efficiency isn't gaining you much, if anything.

To answer a few questions:
1) Don't know if your '04 shift/throttle controls are compatible.

2) The SeaStar hydraulic steering should work fine on the ETEC 200.

3) Does the '04 have a system check gauge and/or tach?yes I have guage Does the ETEC use something different?I think it's same usalley comes w/ wire harness If the ETEC gauges are different you should probably let the System Check gauges go with your current motor.

The ETEC oil is not all that expensive. You can use Evinrude Semi-Synthetic which is available at Wal-Mart stores for $30/gallon:https://www.walmart.com/ip/Evinrude-Johnson-Semi-Synthetic-Outboard-Oil/24091064

Or you can purchase Evinrude XD50 for about the same price. There is also Evinrude XD100 for $40/gallon: https://www.walmart.com/ip/OEM-BRP-...Outboard-Motor-Oil-1-Gallon-0764357/494825277

To take advantage of the benefits on the XD100, which significantly reduces oil consumption rate, the EMM has to be programmed for that oil type. Seriously though, the ETEC uses much less oil than a similar carb'd V6, so you can use the $30/gallon oil just fine. And....it will last for a long time so I wouldn't be all that worried about the oil cost.
Click to expand...

faztbullet said:
It 13 years old and parts are getting thin as BRP has quit supporting anything over 10 years old. Injector fails $600,is this rebuilding injectors? Lift pump $400,is this the hydrloic trim? Fuel pump HP $500, EMM $1700 and then finding a dealer that can successfully wok on it.
Click to expand...

kevinj said:
So 42 gallons won't last for the extended cruise? Hmm, that is a problem. The ETEC's are definitely more fuel efficient, but I don't know how much of a difference in comparison to your carb'd motor. What about increasing fuel capacity in your boat? How is your currnet main fuel tank configured? Could you install saddle tanks on each side of the boat? A permanent 20 gallon tank on each side plus your current 15 gallon tank would give you plenty of fuel capacity.

yes this saddle tank arrangment is how my boat was designed I use one as storage the pickup tube constantly clogs thus storage I post images of FT arrangment.

this tank you link to is very nice I have a new mollier 15 as primary.however I need the fuel fill tubes to be in center of tank! if it where I could squeeze in two one per side. I've actually picked out a mollier saddle it is taller

http://moellermarine.com/moeller-ma...n-permanent-below-deck-boat-fuel-tank-032818/

I have no direct experience, but there are independent shops like DFI Technologies that repair failed EMM's. http://www.dfitechnologies.com/
I know one main failure point on DFI jet skis is there is a small cooling hose that runs through a passage in the EMM. Those passages often get clogged, the EMM overheats, and the circuits get cooked. I don't know if that same issue exists on ETEC's (or other DFI outboards) but it seems like simple maintenance of checking the cooling circuit goes a long way toward avoiding problems.
Click to expand...

faztbullet said:
You may need to look at a four stroke........the numbers aint there for your fuel capacity. My bassboat holds more fuel than that(55gallons)
Click to expand...
As far as picking a a used engine the time sheet of hours reveals how
Much run time at a given RPM.

Example the majority of run time in lower RPM = less used
Example higher RPM = more used

I could find a e-tec engine w/ lowish hours. I would be on it.

The old control cables throttle/gear select connect to e-tec.

If I stepped up to G2 (not sure if cables connect to G2)

I would love G2 w/ it’s automatic trim/ digital control /autopilot

I would have to worry about some a$$hole wanting to run off w/the G2.
I have sean new demo engines deeply reduced G2.

If I stepped up in weight about 200LBs Suzki has fly by wire binical
No more clunk/or smoke less noise.

There 200hp is a big block 4 cylinder it’s compact enough for current splashwheel.
 
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kevinj said:
So 42 gallons won't last for the extended cruise? Hmm, that is a problem. The ETEC's are definitely more fuel efficient, but I don't know how much of a difference in comparison to your carb'd motor. What about increasing fuel capacity in your boat? How is your currnet main fuel tank configured? Could you install saddle tanks on each side of the boat? A permanent 20 gallon tank on each side plus your current 15 gallon tank would give you plenty of fuel capacity.

http://moellermarine.com/moeller-ma...n-permanent-below-deck-boat-fuel-tank-032818/

I have no direct experience, but there are independent shops like DFI Technologies that repair failed EMM's. http://www.dfitechnologies.com/
I know one main failure point on DFI jet skis is there is a small cooling hose that runs through a passage in the EMM. Those passages often get clogged, the EMM overheats, and the circuits get cooked. I don't know if that same issue exists on ETEC's (or other DFI outboards) but it seems like simple maintenance of checking the cooling circuit goes a long way toward avoiding problems.
Click to expand...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moeller-Ma...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
 
If your pickup tube frequently clogs I think you should try and empty the tank and give it a good cleaning. Also, are you sure it's clogging or is your anti-siphon valve sticking?

So you have 15 gallon tanks on each side? Go the Moeller marine link I provided and see if any of the larger tanks will fit in the space you have. Replacing 2 tanks to give the fuel capacity you need is a much cheaper proposition than replacing your motor. I get the idea of trying to increase fuel efficiency, and that's great, but you also have to think about payback. How much will you pay for the new motor, how much can you get for your old one, and how long will it take you to make up that difference in fuel $$ savings. Only you can answer those questions.

It seems to me regardless of what motor you have, the arrangement of fuel tanks is not sufficient. Increasing your fuel capacity for longer runs into the GOM seems to be necessary no matter what motor is on the back of the boat.

KJ
 
I did clean the orginale Mirax (Mirax1 was clean on inside,Mirax2 was rustie inside) tanks pickup tubes screen it was completely covered w/ varnish. I think I sparyed the anti-siphon valve w/ carbuater cleaner

I will check and clean anti-siphon valve still carrying same amount to fuel.

It’s a nuisance to use this tank as a storage tank, here’s the current fuel tank arrangement. edit: the 2 six gallon reserve tanks are connected directly to fliters output. are these fliters just dryed out and reused?

I have been concidering a belly tank w/in these diemensions width 25”X height 7”X 4’length would a belly tank act as a blaist and reduce the rocking motion associated w/ saddle tanks?

then I could relocate the 2 six gal. reserves to the outside ontop of bow, freeing up deckspace.

edit: I plan a plastic cover for the mollier in star aft. that can be used as a step.

TB
 

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update DFI doe's repair fich EMMs they don't repair ETEC. software that controls ETEC is private only acsessable to a ETEC employee.

there is a ebayer who claims to repair 2000+ EMM https://www.ebay.com/itm/EVINRUDE-J...%3A5f2f64de1600aa11f606ffdfffeaa3cf%7Ciid%3A1

not exactly sure if he repairs or just replaces the EMM.

If I understand correctly fich w/ it's direct fuel injection has a EMM, but my 04 a newer engine (I think it's referred to as a Ocean runner w/ it's white paint) has carbs so I think my 04 doesn't have a EMM correct?

I have had the sensor replaced just under the flywheel, it creates the spark for spark plugs. other than that I'm not electrically familiar w/ this 04.

curious if the G2 EMM are also subject premature to failure?
TB
 
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TheBrain said:
update DFI doe's repair fich EMMs they don't repair ETEC. software that controls ETEC is private only acsessable to a ETEC employee.

there is a ebayer who claims to repair 2000+ EMM https://www.ebay.com/itm/EVINRUDE-J...%3A5f2f64de1600aa11f606ffdfffeaa3cf%7Ciid%3A1

not exactly sure if he repairs or just replaces the EMM.

If I understand correctly fich w/ it's direct fuel injection has a EMM, but my 04 a newer engine (I think it's referred to as a Ocean runner w/ it's white paint) has carbs so I think my 04 doesn't have a EMM correct?

I have had the sensor replaced just under the flywheel, it creates the spark for spark plugs. other than that I'm not electrically familiar w/ this 04.

curious if the G2 EMM are also subject premature to failure?
TB
Click to expand...
I quote because I"m still waiting for response.

I just found out about a 200hp + ETEC can be normal or Jumbo sized the ETEC has regular and big block engine.I have sean giant sized 150 in person,
my splashwell wont fit giant sized 200 or even BB150.

will the seriel# reveal block size.

I'm assummming the SB 200 gets it's power though tuning the EMM.
 
Part failure out in open water can be a problem.----I understand in some parts of the world you are required by law to have twin engines if you go offshore.
 
TheBrain said:
update DFI does repair fich EMMs they don't repair ETEC. software that controls ETEC is private only acsessable to a ETEC employee. Not exactly sure if he repairs or just replaces the EMM.
Click to expand...

They repair them. The EMM contains calibration data for each injector and unless you have the original disc for the injector that contains that data there is no good way to update a 'new' EMM.

TheBrain said:
If I understand correctly ficht w/ it's direct fuel injection has a EMM, but my 04 a newer engine (I think it's referred to as a Ocean runner w/ it's white paint) has carbs so I think my 04 doesn't have a EMM correct? I have had the sensor replaced just under the flywheel, it creates the spark for spark plugs. other than that I'm not electrically familiar w/ this 04.
Click to expand...

You are correct. The FICHT (and later ETEC/G2) systems use a throttle body and direct fuel injection. There is a low pressure 'lift' fuel pump and a high pressure pump to supply the injections. Routing of oil is entirely different as well because it bathes the bearings and very little is used for actual combustion. Spray of fuel by the injectors, ignition timing, fuel pressure, and throttle position are all extremely critical factors, that's way it takes an EMM (computer) to control when it all happens.

Your '04 Ocean Runner does have an optical sensor for ignition timing but for the most part it's an old school 2-stroke. It sucks a mixture of oil and gas through the carburetor into the crankcase which then enters the cylinder for combustion.

TheBrain said:
curious if the G2 EMM are also subject premature to failure?
Click to expand...
Not sure. I think the G2's have only been out for a year or two so I'm not familiar with the track record so far. G2's are the next generation of the ETEC and one of the big things is power steering is built into the steering tube, they no longer need hydraulic or cable steering. Also it's an electrically driven shifting mechanism, so no more clunk when the motor goes into gear. There were also advances in engineering for the engine metals and other components. Bombardier has still retained the CDI charging system so there is no need to have a separate alternator and drive belt like Mercury outboards.

As far as I know, I haven't heard of any failures/problems with the ETEC motors. The FICHT motors did have problems and that's the main reason OMC went bankrupt leading to the sale of assets to Bombardier. The FICHT 150/175 motors were known for roasting cylinders, leaking fuel rails, and several other problems. OMC had the right idea, they just didn't have it dialed in quite yet. Bombardier retooled everything and fixed many (if not all) problems inherent in the FICHT system and renamed it ETEC. Basically they took the good idea and made it work.

KJ
 
TheBrain said:
I quote because I"m still waiting for response.

I just found out about a 200hp + ETEC can be normal or Jumbo sized the ETEC has regular and big block engine.I have sean giant sized 150 in person,
my splashwell wont fit giant sized 200 or even BB150.

will the seriel# reveal block size.

I'm assummming the SB 200 gets it's power though tuning the EMM.
Click to expand...

Do a little more reading on the HO vs standard ETEC. Mostly the HO's get the 'Lightning' gear case which is meant for use on performance hulls. They work fine, but you will see no benefit on your boat. I think some of them did have larger displacement but I'm not sure that is changed the overall shape of the motor. Also, programming of the EMM was different.

KJ
 
Oil does not ----" HAVE TO BURN " ----in a 2 stroke engine.-----That is an unfortunate happening as oil works it's way through the engine.-----In a conventional 2 stroke oil gets into the engine via the fuel.--Oil is injected into DFI engine crankcases using a computer controlled pump.-------Some oil stays in the engine for a while untill it is expelled / burned and goes out with the exhaust.
 
wireharnessless ETEC engine


I was hoping the 04 engines main wire harness could be reused on a newer ETEC
I found here at marine engines.com the two engine don't share the same Part #.

however I believe the ETEC does plug into my Tack/warning gauge plug.


I will expect to reuse the gear select/throttle cables, untill I find a deal on
autopilot controls.
a new harness is a grand I'd prefer to direct that grand toward autopilot controls.

used harness $300.

when I look at wire harness I only see whats under the cowl I don't see the long wire that connects to the binnacles ignition.


E250DPXABB
#1 — 587041 — ENGINE HARNESS ASSY (1 required per assembly)
CABLE AY,MOTOR 0587041

About Johnson Evinrude OMC


OEM Part


0587041 - Motor Cable Assembly [ More info ]


Add to shopping cart $993.99
------------------------------
my current engine 04 J175PLSRB
0586028 : used in: 2004 Johnson 175 HP (Model J175PLSRB)
Engine Harness Assembly Parts


I talked to the ETEC mechcanic a few years ago he told me when I upgrade to ETEC we
reuse your current rigging I assume he wasn't referring to the main wiring harness which
has alot more wires example fuel injecters ect.


I now think a wireharnessless engine whorth is significantly reduced w/out the
wireharness.
 

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The engine harness is entirely different between the two engines and will not interchange. Nothing underneath the motor hood is the same. You need to focus finding controls and control wiring between the engine and the controls that is compatible with the Etec.
 
faztbullet said:
You can buy a adapter harness to go from new to old.....
Click to expand...
do you have a link to this adaptor? TB

kevinj said:
The engine harness is entirely different between the two engines and will not interchange. Nothing underneath the motor hood is the same. You need to focus finding controls and control wiring between the engine and the controls that is compatible with the Etec.
Click to expand...
yes it would be preferred to obtain engine w/ controls however obtaining a engine on it's own will let me mearsure control cables (who knows how long the cables are maybe to short like my donor boats) anyway w/ certain models I can choose how to control gear select either mechcanicalle cable (which I allready have) or FBW cableless (expensive) I currently reading about I pilot main thing I expect is GPS locked anchorless anchoring.

I would like the engine weight to be low this is why I choose the 200HP it's weights range from 418LBs -455LBs 60* type
the 200-225-250hp 90* weights start at 530LBs I think the 90* type is big block which isn;t pictured jumbo sized engine so besides weight whats the differnce in 60* &90* type engines?
 

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