Logo

Johnson ocean runner 90hp V4 starts and stalls

SFS

New member
Hello guys, I am new to the forum and would like to say thank you for the vast amount of information you guys provide to people like me…newbies….I am having hell with this one and I was wondering perhaps there is someone in here that could lend me some knowledge on what else to do..
I bought this abandoned boat with a 90hp Johnson J90SLEOC 2 strokes V4 that I thought I could make it work myself….it’s been a pain so far
The engine starts fine but it dies right after a few seconds, if I push the key in short pulses after starting I can hold it running a little bit longer but it dies anyways.
Here is what I have done so far:
--compression check, came in at 120, 119, 118 and 112….the book says that as long as there is not more than 10% difference compression is fine.
--I gave the engine a new set of recommended sparks plugs calibrated according to the service manual
--I do have sparks
--The power packs were replaced with new ones as I saw them with some cracks and rust in the back
--Carburetors were extremely cleaned twice each, one by one were dissembled placed into chemdip for 24 hours, all passages inspected and cleaned, ran fine steel wire through passages, compressed air flushed, cleaned and given a new rebuilt kit to each one of them…including new sets of bowls as the new ones were kind of curved
--Manifold taken apart, cleaned just like the carburetors and new gaskets given as well (the ones facing the intake)
--New O-rings where the fuel enters the carbs
--solenoid was given a new rebuilt kit and has no leaks
--fuel vapor separator rebuilt with new kits…no leaks there
--Fuel Pump replaced with a new standard premixed pump driven by the Pulse limiter
--I got new pulse limiter as well
--new fuel filter
--Followed the service manual and confirmed TDC and linkage adjustment
--I am using a 3 gallons portable tank with fresh fuel connected straight to the engine fuel filter
I have no leaks whatsoever now and it keeps doing the same thing, this engine was using the pre-mix VRO type of fuel pump but it was leaking everywhere so I decided to use a standard one….
Test that I have done after all of the above was changed…
……With ignition off I disconnect fuel hose going into carbs and give the engine some crank and I can see burst of gas coming out.
……right away after the engine dies I open the carbs drain screw and all have gas on them
But same thing…starts when solenoid is activated pushing key in but dies right away, I even tried pressing the bulb primer while it runs but dies too…when it starts I could hold it for a minute maybe by pushing the key in and out periodically but dies as well…
Any opinion here?...any other test I could perform?...initially I thought I had fuel starvation but after all of the above I did….I just cannot think any further…
I will greatly appreciate any input from you guys.

Regards.
 
Will your spark jump a 7/16" open air gap on a spark tester ?? Have you tried squirting fuel into the carb throats when trying to get it to run ??
 
Last edited:
Will your spark jump a 7/16" open air gap on a spark tester ?? Have you tried squirting fuel into the carb throats when trying to get it to run ??


Thank you Boobie, yes I do have a good spark.....and it starts right up on a couple of cranks...
 
You said you replaced the " powerpacks "---But the parts book says 1 required.----Did you mean to say " ignition coils " here ?-----Use a timing light to see if it looses spark after it starts up.----Are the orange wires from the powerpack going to the correct location ?
 
Last edited:
Certainly sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me too.


Thank you guys!...I do really appreciate your responses...

Yes I meant ignition coils when mentioning power packs.....sorry.....
Using a spark tester(not the adjustable one) I get a strong blueish color and that cracking sound.....but to be honest I have not done the 7/16 inches test you guys mention ...planning to buy another tester this weekend if need to
I can only keep it running a bit longer by pushing the key in intervals but not for too long, it dies anyways
---I guess I will set up a spray with some premixed fuel and try what boobie suggest...
---in the mean time yesterday I found one of the re-circulation hoses was leaking at the crankcase fitting for piston #1 and after inspecting, it was found to be in pretty bad shape...not sure if that could be the culprit but I ordered a couple of feet of length and will replace them and keep going from there....will keep you posted!!...

thanks a lot gents!!!
 
When you push the key in on a running motor the primer valve opens.----Fuel is then sprayed in !-----This fuel bypasses the carburetors.------To me that indicates an issue with the carburetors !!!!
 
Than you racerone! that was what initially I was suspecting too; however, these carbs were extremely..carefully...well...cleaned and rebuilt...in fact the first time I took them out, I totally disassembled them, placed them into chemdip for 24 hours each, gave them new parts from a rebuilt kit and put them back. Then after the issue did not seem to go away and further troubleshooting, I noticed a small fuel leakage around the newly installed carbs gaskets and then I decided to re-check them again...this time I found their plastic bowls a little warped and causing the little fuel leak....I ordered 4 new bowls and while waiting...again for the second time placed in into the chemical, this time I even inspected the passages with a good magnifier, ran a fine steel wire through them just in case...man these carbs are shiny and brand new now....I do not think they are the issue but hey....who knows...lol....I am still waiting for the re-circulation hoses to arrive today and replace those faulty ones I found and continue from there...the manual asks to check for those as well as part of the fuel troubleshooting chart.....
Thanks once again for your advise....really appreciate it..

regards
 
Did you remove and inspect the orifices (aka jets) when you serviced the carbs?

Recirc hoses are not the problem. They have check valves in the fitting at either end. Worst thing to happen if they break or fall off? Is ya might burn a lil more fuel.
 
I been dickin around with these V4s for longer than I care to remember. Which is bad cuz I can never remember how I fixed it the last time ...

Regardless. I'll bet ya got a lil tiny piece of crud in a carb passage.
 
Last edited:
I been dickin around with these V4s for longer than I care to remember. Which is bad cuz I can never remember how I fixed it the last time ...

Regardless. I'll bet ya got a lil tiny piece of crud in a carb passage.


---------------

Thanks gents...I still refuse to blame the carbs, I wish you have seen me doing them ...twice...there are cleaner than purified water....lol....ok yesterday I got the recirculating hoses and replaced the faulty one and as the gentleman on post 11 said, it did not improve anything...but they needed to be changed as were in pretty bad shape.....this morning I went and purchased another spark tester and guess what?...the two bottom cylinders are not jumping the 7/16 gap....with the old tester they seem to have spark but I guess is not strong enough...to make sure before blaming anything else....I inspected all wires, checked for shorts to ground , gound cables..etc....cleaned them and re-plugged them...same thing I get no 7/16 jumps on bottom sparks.....then went ahead and swapped the two newly replaced coils...the one at the top went to bottom and now the problem is with the top cylinder sparks not jumping the 7/16....I will be doing more test if my son allows me today to finally decide if the 240 bucks power pack needs to be replaced too....man...I can hear the wife bitchin already......lol...
if power pack is certain to be faulty I will try to see if it can be repaired (old electronic eng. here...lol), this thing are just switching circuits that elevate the Voltage enough for the ignition coils to multiply it...the difficult part is removing the resin they use in order to get to the components...if it is bad and needs replacement it will be destined for the X-lab...lol, I will see if I could get an schematic off the internet if not will try to reverse engineer it......
will keep you guys posted...who knows ahhh?...after all curiosity is what brings knowledge....hey after all...240 bucks could buy me a lot of cold ones!!...
happy weekend!....
 
It seems folks do not want to listen / understand the concept of testing spark to jump a gap of 7/16" as is often asked.-----Common reply is " I have good spark "-----Folks will do all kinds of work and replace parts in the hope of finding the culprit !!!
 
Thanks Racerone, but when I initially started the basic testing for compression, sparks, fuel etc...the tester I used was a fixed one and as a newbie I thought it was already set at that gap.....now back to my results....interesting as it is....
it turns out that is not the powerpack...the weak spark now is due to one of the newly replaced ignition coils....can't believe it...these were replaced during this whole ordeal over the course of several months of troubleshooting due to my spare time being small lately...when I first replaced the ignition coils and tested the spark it was a solid noise blueish wavelength color so I thought that part was taken care of and continue with the fuel leaks, solenoid problems...carb cleaning.....and now out of nowhere a new ignition coil is not working properly...too bad it's been more than 30 days and cannot return it...will place an order and wait for it and c what happens....thank you

thank you...
 
sfs

sounds like you have the exact same problem as me, i have the 115 motor
have cleaned the carbys 3 times
just checked all readings on all electrical and all come up fine
i was suspecting weak spark because mine now gets flooded easy after it stalls, then wont start again
 
sfs

sounds like you have the exact same problem as me, i have the 115 motor
have cleaned the carbys 3 times
just checked all readings on all electrical and all come up fine
i was suspecting weak spark because mine now gets flooded easy after it stalls, then wont start again
====
sounds similar....I have changed a lot of stuff to this engine but not because some else here "said" that I am trowing stuff at it to make it work. My engine needed an overhaul as it was abandoned and I started with the basics...now I must admit that the 7/16 gap jump test was never done as I was using a borrowed tester that was fixed at around 5/8 and got blueish sparks on all coils outputs...then I moved from there and found other things...like a leak around the primer solenoid, found another small leak around the fuel/vapor switch...that was after I rebuilt the carbs with new kits....then again and since the problem persisted...and by following the manual troubleshooting chart...I found two carbs sipping a little fuel around the newly installed gaskets so again took them apart and noticed their bawls curved a bit and although I had the chance to work them out sanding them to a flat surface I decided to go with new ones....no changes, engine kept doing same thing...then looking very carefully I saw a small leak coming out in between the carb 4 and the intake manifold...took the whole thing apart and one gasket was out of place and flattened...ordered new gaskets...everything back in place and no change.....then a Gent here asked if I had the 7/16 gap jump and I mistakenly said yes......however, I decided to buy a different tester, got one from advanced auto part and found one of the coils no producing enough high voltage to jump 7/16...although it jumps around 5/8, the coil is new and when measured according to the book everything comes good except for the 7/16 jump of course, I guess the problem is when high voltage is present, electrons are escaping via a faulty coil internal wires insulation(varnish) and not producing enough energy for that spark....my theory....as of now I am waiting for another coil and continue from there.....keep coming back as I will be updating....
good luck

Regards,
 
Its frustrating when you try so much to no avail, i tested my spark with 7/16 gap and it does it no problem, i can even wind it out wider and it still does it on all coils.
Ill keep an eye on this thread and hopefully someone has some ideas
Glenn
 
Frustrating is watching folks throw new parts at chit. Hopin they'll stick. Without troubleshooting/pinpointing the initial problem
 
Folks are helping from say 1000 miles away.------Owners appear to be reluctant to answer questions / do simple trouble shooting.----We could probably help better in person with help from a beverage that comes in aluminum cans too.
 
Its frustrating when you try so much to no avail, i tested my spark with 7/16 gap and it does it no problem, i can even wind it out wider and it still does it on all coils.
Ill keep an eye on this thread and hopefully someone has some ideas
Glenn
I know, I know...it's a lot of frustration but hey at least we are learning....do not give up by reading other "smart" guys here saying we are throwing stuff to call it....some people make assumptions based on a few words written on an internet forum for DIYers like this....the things I had changed needed to be changed anyways, I happen to have the service manual which by the way does not go too much deep into the technical behind everything but at least it guides you through some basic troubleshooting steps like checking the fuel system...ignition system..etc not sure if you have it too but I am willing to take a pic of the chart and share it, it might or might not help but it is something at least....
I am not into mechanics, in fact this is the second OB engine I get to play with, the first one a 15hp old Johnson that my brother got it down in the fl keys for almost nothing...that thing had more barnacles than an old pier....we could not even unscrew the carb bowl..guess what?...by studying how it works, reading, reading and reading...and "throwing some stuff" at it...now it runs like new and the skiff is happy....
I have fixed many, many other stuff a lot more complex than a 2 stroke engine like mine, I used to work in the reverse engineering field in electronics...that is where I learned to deal with frustration!....patience if you can have it....
in another forum, someone very rude suggested That I was not meant to fix this engine and that I should've called a mechanic...well what did the mechanic would've done with all the intake,solenoid, vapor separator leaks, carbs, hoses with punctures, old rusty sparks, shift rod miss-adjusted?..etc....he'd changed and charged....heck only a service around my area cost around 400 bucks....I have not yet surpassed 220 dollars in parts.....but again....I do it little by little with patience and at least day dream seeing me catching some mangroves one day....
do not give up dude!
 
and it's not coca cola!!....hey thanks for responding, sometimes we just missed a post and respond to others and that is why you might think we do not take advice...in my case I always appreciate any input, I learn everyday and from anybody....I only have a couple of yuengling left in the cooler!!...cheers
 
and it's not coca cola!!....hey thanks for responding, sometimes we just missed a post and respond to others and that is why you might think we do not take advice...in my case I always appreciate any input, I learn everyday and from anybody....I only have a couple of yuengling left in the cooler!!...cheers

Hey did you get the new coil yet? any results?
 
Hey did you get the new coil yet? any results?


man...I am a man of no luck at all...I placed the order with crowley marine which I never had any issues before and they always ship using priority mail and it comes in about three days to the hell hole I live in...yes Miami from south florida....lol....guess what?...The order was placed last Sunday the 19th thinking it'd arrive by Wednesday and during the holidays I could've tested it...well on the day after thanksgiving I learned by the tracking there is another "Miami" in Ohio dude......lol...USPS could not tell the difference....I have complained to Crowley and now awaiting their response, they are pretty good at customer services...... ...as soon as I get the coil I will post back the results.....

although late ...hope everyone had a good holiday time off.....

regards,
 
Or....you could have ordered from the host site Marineengine.com

yeap...I do order from marine engine too, in fact most of my brother's old Johnson parts are ordered from you guys...in this case shopping around they just happened to have the original OMC coil part a bit cheaper...and as you know Christmas is around the corner....need to save a few bucks!.....
Thank you!
 
Ok finally the new coil arrived today and had a chance to test it......now I get it to run but still idling is very rough and dies ...although it last lot longer than before, when I engage and move handle forward and open throttle I can keep it running, did not tried for too long since I am using the muffs on trailer, it was dark and by myself....but I can tell it was running decently in my opinion....at least now I can get to the ramp turn it on and shoot like spongebob in his driving class...lol...I am now planning to build my own test tank and see if I could adjust the idle screws according to the book, it states that the engine needs to be in the water for a back pressure adjustment....or perhaps an skipper here could drop me another tip...

thanks a lot to all of you guys....I will keep posting....my job is keeping me busier these days but as soon as I get freer and spare time comes back.....fun time again...
thank you all....
 
I did another quick run today and man I think this will be my Phd in Johnson 2 strokes science....on neutral it dies although a lot better than before..it dies with honor...... if I shift forward and give it a bit of throttle I can keep it running but I can feel some miss-fire...or something like it...not totally smooth but runs all the time....I went through the linkage adjustment by the manual a while ago but for some reason I suspect it has some issues on it now.....when I move the handle forward and shift..the timing arm(forgot what's called now) moves before the butterflies in the carbs open, these ones start to move once I keep pushing the handle a little more and the engine revs up...I think I will go back to the manual tomorrow and study this whole linkage adjustment in case I missed something.....anyone here jumping in on how to do a quick test to see if problems exist on linkage?.....appreciate it!
will keep you all posted.

Regards
 
Back
Top