Logo
Click for Crusader parts and manuals!
Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1

    Question First post... quick question

    Joined today... first post...

    I just bought a 1985 Blackfin 29 with twin 454's. Starboard reportedly has +/- 350 hours. port reportedly has +/- 1,500 hours. I'm losing a little coolant on starboard, and am planning on tearing into the cooling system to see what all needs replaced - elbows for sure. Unless the manifolds look immaculate, I'll likely replace them just to start with a clean slate. Leading up to this, task, I have two question that I'm hoping the group can help a new Crusader owner with...

    1) Current system uses the round water outlet adaptors to feed the HX. If I'm replacing all, it looks like I have the option to purchase the elbow with the longer neck and do away with the adaptor all together. Is that true? Are there any benefits or drawbacks to this change?

    2) Since I'll have this apart (and will be replacing head gaskets as preventative maint), seems to me it would be a good idea to have the valves done. Am I thinking about this correctly? If so, how much should I expect to spend for that?

    Thanks for whatever thoughts or advice you have.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Welcome to ME.com

    Let me suggest that you slow down and go thru a diagnostic process vs throwing parts at your issue.....unless you are independently wealthy and have lots of free time....

    Most of the time, coolant leaks are found with a pressure tester.

    Not exactly sure what you are getting at with Q#1.

    Replacing head gaskets doesn't fall into 'preventative maintenance....

    Would also suggest getting the factory service manual and the factory parts list - accurate nomenclature allows most of us to understand your issue as well can't see what you can.....

    Other thoughts - get a logbook and start recording your issues and resolutions as well as your maintenance.....it will pay huge dividends in the future...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Island Heights, NJ,
    Posts
    2,571

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Coolant leak can be a stupid as a leaky hose to the overflow tank, or the tank itself.... Once had a slow coolant leak on my 5.7 that turned out to be a slightly warped flange on the "radiator cap" seat on the HX itself. was able to straighten it out with the judicious use of a screwdriver and a block of wood... The "mechanic" just kept replacing the caps... , then wanted to sell me a new H/E. 8 years now, still OK!
    Capt Bob
    1969 23ft ChrisCraft Lancer
    Merc 5.7L 260HP/ Volvo 280
    1972 22ft Bristol
    Honda 7.5HP 4 stroke Long shaft

  4. #4

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by makomark View Post
    Welcome to ME.com

    Let me suggest that you slow down and go thru a diagnostic process vs throwing parts at your issue.....unless you are independently wealthy and have lots of free time....

    Most of the time, coolant leaks are found with a pressure tester.

    Not exactly sure what you are getting at with Q#1.

    Replacing head gaskets doesn't fall into 'preventative maintenance....

    Would also suggest getting the factory service manual and the factory parts list - accurate nomenclature allows most of us to understand your issue as well can't see what you can.....

    Other thoughts - get a logbook and start recording your issues and resolutions as well as your maintenance.....it will pay huge dividends in the future...

    Thanks makomark. That is sage advice for sure. I possibly come at it from a little different angle. While I'm not wealthy, it is important for me to have my equipment in top notch condition. I also really enjoy turning a wrench on boat engines. So from my perspective, looking at older manifolds/elbows that are showing some rust at the joints, on a boat that has been a little neglected by previous owners, and with no maintenance records... I do consider manifolds/elbows/gaskets to be preventative maintenance... in this case. And once you've got those off, by simply pulling the heads, you get a really good look at what exactly is going on (good or bad) inside those cylinders. I just like knowing. Gaskets are cheap, the iron is a good value if you consider the consequences of failure, and none of it takes very long to do. I know guys who tend to throw parts at problems, but that's not really my MO. I was really just wondering what I might expect to pay for a valve job once I have the heads off.

    In Q#1, I was asking about being able to do away with the funky circular "water outlet adapter" (pic attached) that was used on early model 454's to connect to the heat exchanger (HX). Not sure if that was the nomenclature you raised?

    I've got the factory service manual and the parts list... wouldn't be without them. Couldn't agree with you more about a maintenance log book. I have an electronic version that I've used for years, and that I can access at anytime form anywhere.... it's a beautiful thing!

    Thanks again for your response and input. I appreciate it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pic - Water Outlet Adaptor.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	55.8 KB 
ID:	16444  
    Last edited by Tizor; 09-06-2017 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Add pic

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    On the water outlet adapters, they are needed for the older "log style" exhaust manifolds when used on FWC systems - they provide a means (along with the block off plates) to route the coolant from the exhaust manifold to the heat exchanger.

    On a well maintained GM V-8, you should get at least 1000 hours out of the top end.....how much? Shouldn't be any more than for a truck head (labor rates vary by over 2:1 across the country) (plus parts).

    finally, exhaust manifolds on a FWC application should last for decades...the Risers and the Elbows are the typical service (PM) items. There are many threads on the Crusader forum describing some of the excursions you can encounter....the only trick with the log manifolds deals with the gaskets - keep the 'tabs' up....Flushing before hand is good practice, especially given your philosophy....

  6. #6

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Excellent. Thanks again. Appreciate the advice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairport, NY
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    I had the old water hose adapters on my 454's. Ended up replacing the manifolds for other reasons, but will say zero operational difference. There is another old adapter in this same vintage, at the thermostat. If you have two rubber hose clamped caps, I do recommend going to the next generation. I had one of these plugs burst far from home one time. The new(er) style has fewer gaskets, a good thing.

  8. #8

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Thanks diver_dave. That is some real world feedback that I'm excited to hear. Regarding the thermostat housing... yes... my lower housing has two ports that are capped of with clamped rubber caps. I was told that those are for the hot water heater (which has been removed previously from this boat). I am planning on installing a replacement water heater at some point and would like for it to be able to heat off of engine water, so I suspect I should stick with my current housing for that reason.

  9. #9

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Question on the loosing coolant - Are you seeing visual signs of the coolant on the floor of the engine compartment? I was loosing coolant on my 8.1's, I tested the coolant and found it was watered down. Had the HX tested and there were leaks so the coolant I was loosing was mixing with the raw water and going out the exhaust. The bigger problem was now I had salt water mixed with the coolant in the block. Drained the block a few times and filed with fresh coolant to be sure I had any salt water out.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    the HWH we have gets engine heat from the water pump's bypass hose.....which I believe a much better choice than the t-stat housing....they are 86 vintage and don't have the 'extra ports'....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairport, NY
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Yeah. Hard to imagine those 1.5" + ports for a WH.
    Original HE highly suspicious for internal leaks. Also the riser/elbow gaskets and bolt tightness.
    Last edited by diver_dave; 09-07-2017 at 11:40 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    maplevalley WA
    Posts
    3,470

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tizor View Post
    Thanks diver_dave. That is some real world feedback that I'm excited to hear. Regarding the thermostat housing... yes... my lower housing has two ports that are capped of with clamped rubber caps. I was told that those are for the hot water heater (which has been removed previously from this boat). I am planning on installing a replacement water heater at some point and would like for it to be able to heat off of engine water, so I suspect I should stick with my current housing for that reason.
    You can add a cabin heater as well if one is not present the return line is normally on the water circ pump and the pressure line is on the intake manifold.
    It takes a nickle to go first class!
    If it aint broke dont fix it!!

  13. #13

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Thanks to everyone for some great advice and ideas! If the ports that I mentioned are not for a heater of some kind, then are they just available for some other type of cooling arrangement? I've attached a pic of the ports in question (stuffed so no critters get in). These were capped off with rubber caps (which cracked and failed). I'm having a hard time finding replacements.

    Thanks.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Outlets GIF.gif 
Views:	23 
Size:	31.2 KB 
ID:	16451

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    maplevalley WA
    Posts
    3,470

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Get a couple pipe plugs and coat the threads with permatex aviation. Galvanized or brass they have a tapered pipe thread.
    It takes a nickle to go first class!
    If it aint broke dont fix it!!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairport, NY
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tizor View Post
    Thanks to everyone for some great advice and ideas! If the ports that I mentioned are not for a heater of some kind, then are they just available for some other type of cooling arrangement? I've attached a pic of the ports in question (stuffed so no critters get in). These were capped off with rubber caps (which cracked and failed). I'm having a hard time finding replacements.

    Thanks.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Outlets GIF.gif 
Views:	23 
Size:	31.2 KB 
ID:	16451
    Used for the raw water cooling system, IIRC.
    Crusader part no 97556 replaces that casting set and has no extra huge holes.
    Last edited by diver_dave; 09-07-2017 at 09:06 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    to expand on what dave mentioned....based on your pic, there's two different sized outlets that were capped.

    I'd say the thermostat housing was replaced with a raw water cooling set vs the FWC set that should be there. those capped off ports have no use with the HX.

    I'd suggest using the FWC housing set....new parts wont be cheap so you may want to investigate some used ones....the part numbers can be found on the FWC breakout.the lower gasket should be marine-it will have a continuity rivet in it for the sending unit....the upper one can be a high quality auto gasket...

  18. #18

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Yes, the larger port is for 1 3/4" ID hose and the smaller port is for 1 1/4" ID hose. The spec for that part (CRU97557) actually says:

    "Lower Thermostat Housing For Crusader V8 Engines for mostly Raw Water Cooled engines. Some fresh water cooled applications also use this housing but have rubber caps blocking off the ports."

    Not sure why anybody would do it that way, but this appears to be one of the FWC systems that did. I'll take your advice and replace it with the proper FWC housing and gaskets. Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Part.gif 
Views:	14 
Size:	29.5 KB 
ID:	16453  

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Out of curiosity, what does the other engine's t-stat housing look like?

  20. #20

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Same exact setup.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Wow....Then I suspect you have the "alternate configuration," used when they ran out of the non-ported FWC Housings.....

    after this revelation, if you have access to a machinist, you may just want to clean up the inside of the hose ports on the existing housing and seal them off with freeze plugs.....

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairport, NY
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Both mine were the same when I bought them. The rubber cap split on us when deep in the bahamas, spraying pressurized coolant all over the top on the engine. I have the part nos for the plugs, but I was anxious to upgrade the system.

  23. #23

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    makomark... They really ran out of the part, so did this??? That's kinda funny.

    diver_dave... That's the same exact thing that happened to me. I was closer to port, so limped home without much trouble, but had a bilge full of coolant! I'm going to upgrade that housing, but if you really have the part numbers for the plugs, I might look at that for a band aide fix.

    Thanks both!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    maplevalley WA
    Posts
    3,470

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Can you just find a couple rubber expansion freeze plugs for a block the right size as a temporary fix until you get a permanent solution? Search dorman expansion plug?
    Last edited by kimcrwbr1; 09-11-2017 at 05:56 AM.
    It takes a nickle to go first class!
    If it aint broke dont fix it!!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    just speculation on my part.....though it has been witnessed in other areas.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fairport, NY
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tizor View Post
    makomark... They really ran out of the part, so did this??? That's kinda funny.

    diver_dave... That's the same exact thing that happened to me. I was closer to port, so limped home without much trouble, but had a bilge full of coolant! I'm going to upgrade that housing, but if you really have the part numbers for the plugs, I might look at that for a band aide fix.

    Thanks both!
    Large cap: 96519
    Small cap: 97311

    My handwritten in pencil numbers rescanned into .pdf are hopefully correct. I suspect any caps not yet installed are quite old. Can't recommend using them!

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maryland - USA
    Posts
    6,765

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    looks like they are NLA.....

  28. #28

    Default Re: First post... quick question

    Thanks for the ideas guys. New housings, T-stats, hoses & belts on the way!

Similar Threads

  1. Quick question
    By webbrs in forum Johnson Evinrude Outboard Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-01-2016, 06:43 PM
  2. First post and a wiring question
    By Padre in forum Johnson Evinrude Outboard Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-22-2014, 09:26 AM
  3. Quick question
    By tbrodes in forum Crusader Marine Engine Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-21-2010, 08:08 AM
  4. Quick question
    By roederll in forum Johnson Evinrude Outboard Archive
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-23-2008, 12:59 PM
  5. QUICK QUESTION
    By Tom Kozlow in forum Archive 2003-2009
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-23-2004, 11:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •