1987 J150hp v6 one problem after another....

Hi folks,
I've been a lurker on here for a while but I've reached the limit of what I can learn from the internet without asking a few questions.
Sorry its a little long winded, but a bit of background usually helps.


I'm based over in Ireland, been working as a hobbyist and around boats since I could walk... but I've been working in computers for years and felt the need to get my hands dirty and have a happier life... I got my wish

Last year I bought a ~30 year old boat and engine very cheap... I figured I could do it up to a reasonable standard while learning a new skill or two. The hull had no holes and the engine started... I quickly learned about replacing stringers, doing fiberglass work, repairing bearings and how to search the web for information on engines. I've been following this forum, watching Dangar Stu doing almost everything I needed and a ton of other people its amazing just how much relevant information there is on a 30 year old outboard on the web.

My outboard came with an additional mostly stripped powerhead which was really useful to strip down for parts. But both the powerhead and engine were very corroded with little evidence that the bolts on the lower unit or the mounting bracket had been loosened recently.

So far:-

• Replaced the tilt/trim motor

• Replaced water pump unit, previous impeller wasn't too bad but had been demonstrated running dry

• Purchased a new(used) remote control unit (old one was a hack job of wires)

• Replaced Spark Plugs with the correct plugs

Recently while testing the new remote control unit I noticed that the alarm buzzer buzzed as soon as I turned the key before the engine started. The motor started, idled quite high, lots of smoke then slowly spluttered and died in about a minute. I noticed that the alarm was still buzzing, I had a good water tell tale the entire time, but I noticed that the cylinder heads were quite warm, warmer than a car engine would be after a minute.

Concerned that I had an overheat issue, I removed the thermostat covers and tested both the thermostats.. both were broken but were broken in the open position.. I replaced both with thermostats that I know work and closed it up.

I've then opened the fuel filter, cleaned out some dirt and flushed it.

At this point I then noticed that when I prime the fuel line I was seeing a little bit of fuel leaking out of the VRO pump toward the oil chamber (Oil is pre-mix and the Oil in is capped) near the alarm circuitry, but fuel was exiting the pump. I took the pump apart and noticed that the fuel piston diaphragm wasn't in the best health. But I found a VRO pump on ebay for £60 and bought it, assured by the vendor that it came from a working engine, when it arrived the gas/oil output was facing 180' from where it was on my 1987 pump, possibly a VRO pump of a later generation?

While waiting on my new pump, I undertook a strip down of each carburettor, there was not a huge amount of dirt and there were no fully blocked jets. I've put them back on the engine and also verified the primer switches on when power is supplied.

Today the VRO pump arrived in the post and I placed it on the engine, I had to rig a new pipe between the output and the bottom of the fuel manifold assembly. When everything was connected I squeezed the fuel bulb and primed the engine, only to discover that fuel is leaking from the exact same place AND the joins on the fuel chamber!

Again on turning the key to 'on' the alarm sounded, I disconnected the starboard temp sensor and the alarm silenced, I reconnected it and it did not sound again.

I primed the engine and it must have taken about a minute of cranking before the engine roared into life with a huge cloud of smoke, again a great stream from the tell tale, I throttled back but it sat a very high idle for a long time. I'd lifted the throttle cam up and away from the throttle controllers so the butterfly inlets would have been closed.

I was then able to stop/start the engine more or less within a second of turning the key but with a very high idle. After running the engine for a minute or two I noticed the tell-tale was as warm as a comfortable shower would be. I believe water was circulating as the exhaust was spitting water out behind us.


I have some youtube vids of my progress to share:-

When I first started it upon buying it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAeAzD8Kg0
Replaced Plugs, water pump and some paint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKO0KbQuaso
Today, high idle on warm engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqC3TKWEKN0

So my questions:-

• When I prime my engine should pressure cause any fuel to escape from the VRO unit at all?
• How quickly should it get up to temperature?
• How do I address the high idle?

Thank you for your help so far, I would not have gotten this for or learned so much without the forums on the web.
Ryan

No fuel should escape the VRO. What kind of clamps are you using on the hoses? Should get up to temp reasonably quick get a temp gun and see the actual temps. Did you look at the throttle cable or idle screw to change the idle. I would also recommend a compression test and spark test. Your first video sounded like a cylinder or 2 may not be firing.

What kind of fuel is there in your country? Are the carbys synced? The diaphragm sounds like ethanol disfigurement. VRO's are ruined by ethanol. The one you got might have been bad too, maybe not when they took it off, but by the time they sold it to you. How long did it sit in the parts bin, or on the old motor. Used VRO's can burn you, Ryan. Good job so far on the boat.

Hi Guys,

thank you for your replies.

No Fuel should escape.... oh boy.

Clamps on the hoses are zip ties, but no fuel is leaking from the hoses themselves.

I initially looked yesterday a the throttle cable but before adjusting it, manually pushed the cam up out of contact with the roller on the carb so that the car was fully closed, I'll have a look at the screw today, though I hear without back pressure they do run faster.

I'll look into the spark test, not sure I have the kit for it and we have no evinrude/brp dealers in Ireland any more, nor many who would touch it... but i'm sure there is something to be learned from it. Interesting you say it sounds like a few aren't firing, having them now work after the carb clean might explain the higher revs. I'm starting to think 'it starts' was just to get the boat sold and away, without anyone trying to make it work!

As for the fuel, its regular unleaded.. we're told its '95 octane' but I believe its sold in the USA as 90/91 octane. I believe the regulations are max 5-10% ethanol here.

I have no idea about the age of that VRO pump, I may strip the both for parts and try moving the diaphragms together to make a single pump. I think I need to splash out for either a premix only pump or the rebuild kit...

I'll let you know how I get on.

VRO's are great when they are working as they present oil based on demands of the motor. You can't do that with premix. Some oil injections are operated proportionate to throttle position with no other factors considered. If I was you, I would go pre mix at 80:1 with Amsoil 100:1 "pre mix". I still run a little richer on the VRO motors. Don't feel right at 100 to 1, but it's probably okay. The replacement VRO's are ethanol "resistant". They are expensive. Your motor may not be worth that cost, depending on what else you have to do to fix it.

I'd been mixing 50:1 until I know its running correctly, was willing to suffer some blue smoke and cost to ensure it doesn't run dry.. but given these pumps appear to be working although leaky it might be worth letting the oiler do its thing.

I don't think its worth a new pump tbh, i'll never spend $400+ on the dribble of fuel that's coming out of the motor... may be there are some replacement seals I can get locally that will help reduce it though.

Need to get the idle/temp issue fixed first though

Bit of an update...

I removed all but one spark plug and rotated the flywheel and found compression. Did that for all six cylinders all seemed to be reasonably equal. I did notice that on one of the plugs the gap was very small, so i fixed that too. Its not scientific by any means but for a cold engine it seemed to have some measure of compression.

It was the throttle cable, managed to wind it the correct direction, possibly a little too far and it idled at a more acceptable speed. So thats a relief..


On the temp..
I went out this morning and removed the cover from the thermostat cover & the cylinder head cover to check for salt blockages on one of the banks of cylinders. After cleaning out the channels and restoring the head cover I again started the Motor. (Obviously removing the head cover and breaking the gasket is something i was aware of and did consciously, i'd already ordered a bunch of gaskets to replace them.) Without the gasket I had a good pressured leak of water under the head cover and the cylinder head unit (where the water is) right behind the thermostat.. so i'm happy that water at pressure is getting up to the top of the engine, with the thermostat open that should flow correctly.

However, I stopped the engine while it was still cold, having ran for about 20s. I removed the thermostat cover and could see a few wafts of steam/smoke. Having removed the cover it smelt like exhaust. Cant help but wonder if a little bit of exhaust gas is getting into the water and possibly creating an issue for me. Again I have no idea if this is normal or somewhat acceptable on an engine thats 30 years old. Or if I need to replace something.. hopefully something cheap!!

Eliminate the vro pump by getting the pump from pre-VRO v6. Never buy used VROs they are not worth the money. Never use zip ties to hold the fuel lines onto the pump. I like oetiker clamps personally. You also need to do a REAL compression and spark test feels good does not cut it. If you have exhaust in the waterjacket you need to look at the head gaskets. The only way my motor gets oiled is from the VRO pump I pre-mix nothing for it.

The zip ties are only a temporary solution until I get the thing working again.. I don't have a lot of faith that it'll work perfectly without some work yet.. I'll look at the oetiker clamps for when its fully done.

I think I need to invest in the rebuild kit for the VRO at this point.. the plastics are as good new and its just the perishables that need replaced.

I'll also look into the proper compression test..

thanks

I would buy the retrofit pump before I would rebuild a leaking VRO cost is about the same.

true.

Went out this morning to remove the VRO pump, wanted to take a video to send back to the vendor.. and of course it would not leak.. the fuel must have expanded a diagphram but it would not leak fuel today... guess that's positive.

Hi,

I have a 150 also. I had a fuel leak when I primed the motor before I started it. Take off the carby cover and hit the primer and look for the leak. Mine was the little red plastic primer control thing. It has like a tyre valve at the end of it. It had a small crack in it and passed fuel only when you primed the motor and was visible. I cleaned it and removed the valve component and plugged to stop the leak and my new part arrived today. When running you should be able to feel the water from your pee flow getting hot and cold as the thermostats open and close. It will be different in the water.

When I put mine in the water the idle settled down too. I removed the carbs and cleaned them as well. It idled fast on the ear muffs but once in water it went like well.

Good Luck with it all,

CrashT

Thanks CrashT, appreciate the kind wishes.. I've not checked the primer yet.. will do it this weekend.

I'm going to try finding a barrel to run it in too.. give a bit of pressure