2003 Honda 225

Having some issues with Honda 225 outboard, some background:
2003 with about 2000 hours
Exclusive salt use
Predominately tuna fishing with 50 mile runs and either trolling or stopped jigging

A year ago I broke a spark plug off in the motor and had to have a head pulled and a helicoil installed when busted plug was removed. At that time I replaced the high pressure fuel filter since it isnt easy to get to.

For the last couple years I have been losing some oil, after a couple trips I have to add a quart of 10-30 (around 24 hours). Don’t know what is up with that, adding oil is the easy fix.

I usually get a little over 2.0 mpg, this year I have been getting between 1.3 and 1.6mpg. I also have an alarm going off when at idle. It may take a few seconds or a few minutes, but at idle the alarm is like a one second buzzer with about a 1 second pause between buzzers. I have a 4 light control panel, and the green oil light and the MIL (engine light) are both on steady.



I did some poking around on the internet and figured my O2 senson had gone out since they are problematic it seems and other had similar symptoms.

In retrospect I wish I had just ordered a Honda OEM sensor, but I found some new ones from China on ebay, they meet Honda spec blah blah blah, I ordered two since they were only $17, neither of them fixed my problem. Either made of pure Chinesieum, or it wasn’t my problem???? May have to get a Honda OEM one to try.

I have read where a bad O2 sensor can make the motor run lean, dumping more fuel than it can burn lower effeciency and mileage, but also result in low power. I don’t notice any less power, but more fuel is going somewhere per mile.

When stopped at idle I see an oil slick appear behind the motor, it smells like fuel, but could be my oil that seems to be going away also????? The oil slick “seems” to be coming from prop exhaust, as you see little oil slicks appear from nowhere like they are floating to the top.



Getting to a dealer to get the code read is a big undertaking, they want the boat dropped off, I would have to take a day off from work to deliver it and pick it up, they wont just jump on it and read the code. Plus I would have to remove all my commerical fishing gear and equipment so it doesn’t get stolen from their yard.

I hope to get a chance to short across the two prongs with a paperclip and read the code from the MIL light blink tonight that I found how to do on this forum today. Is there anything else I can be doing to resolve this??

It looks like you may have two unrelated problems. MIL light on, and long intermittent alarm means the the programmed fuel injection is not working properly. That could be any number of things.

First things first, pull the codes. If you need the exact procedure, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will send the procedure and what the codes mean. Once you take the codes and record them. Reset the ECU, run the engine, and take the codes again. Sometimes, old codes are retained on the EPROM in the ECU. You may also want to re-install the original HO2 sensor, run the engine, then get the codes again. A code "1" could be a bad HO2 sensor, but it could also be a bad spark plug or coil, or fuel pressure out of spec. (BTW - I seriously doubt that at $17.00 dollar after market HO2 sensor will be liked by the ECU.)

If you have a fuel pressure gauge that will fit, connect it to the pressure relief bolt that sits on top of the HP fuel filter cover and test the fuel pressure. If memory is right, it should be in the 42 to 49 psi range.

Secondly, check/change the HP fuel filter. If it is black or brown, it needs to be changed.

A bad HO2 sensor will make the engine run rich. So pull your plugs and carefully inspect the electrodes. They should have a milk chocolate coating. If they are black, you are running too rich. With all plugs removed, a fully charged battery, and throttle wide open, do a compression test and record the results. With that many hours, expect compression to be in the 165-175 psi range. The key is that there should be no more than a 10% difference between the highest reading and the lowest reading. If one or more of those plugs look shiny new, then you may be getting water into that cylinder.

Next, pull and test your T-stats. If one or both are stuck open, that could be the cause of the oil problem and low performance. When stuck open, the engine runs too cool, keeping the rings from setting properly and allowing oil to bypass the rings. The ECU pumps in more fuel. Put the t-stats in a pan of water and heat it up. Using an instant thermometer, the t-stats should start to open at 140 F and be fully open at 160 F. Fully open is only 3 mm.

That's a start. If the problem is not solved, come back at us.

Thank you for the documents in the email. I did the shunt trick and got the MIL to blink a code. I am not sure if I have two codes or one code going on???? I dont know how long the pauses are between blinks to tell if i am getting two codes or one?? From my counting, I have a code 1 and 41, or just code 15, I get a single blink followed by 5 blinks and the last blink looks faster to me????


https://goo.gl/photos/VuGfA1qfQFwShBVb9



https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=bVVSMHY0Wmc3LWlicVpaZkttTHhLRVBKNzk2NUZR

This morning before work I cleared the codes and didnt have time to run the motor to trip a code again and reread the code, hopefully soon I get to do that.


It seems you think Service Bulletin #56 is important. Looks like a fair piece of work making those modifications, hopefully all those bolts come out easy. Looking over #56, my motor sits low to the water, this could be a current or future issue for me and probably needs done.


When you mention HO2, I assume that is my Oxygen sensor in the front side of the Port exhaust manifold, (not sure what the H is for?) The 4 prongs on the Oxygen Sensor look brand new.

Thermostats were changed a year ago when I had the busted spark plug and the head was pulled.


I will pull the plugs and look at them. After running the original plugs for 10 or 11 years I pulled one and looked at it, they looked perfect but I ordered new ones, a year later I went to change them, and that is when I broke the threads off the one plug I pulled a year earlier doing an inspection. Should I be putting never sieze on the plug threads, I dont want that issue again, it was expensive.


Thank you for the help.

You are getting a code "1" and a code "41". Code 1 is typically the HEATED O2 sensor. But as I said previously, it could also be a missing plug, or coil, of fuel pressure out of spec. Code "41" is a faulty HO2 heater circuit. So, both codes together are pointing to a bad HO2 sensor. To work properly, an HO2 sensor needs to heat up to around 600 degrees F.

If the HO2 sensor heater is not working, the sensor warm-up time is extended and the computer stays in open loop longer. In this mode, the computer supplies a richer air/fuel ratio. As a result, the engine's emissions are high and its fuel economy is reduced. A really good auto shop can test the HO2 sensor by heating it up with a propane torch and testing both the signal strength and the heater element.

Let us know what you see when you pull those spark plugs. If they are sooty, then you may get off lucky and just need to replace the HO2 sensor with a real Honda one.

Every time I pull a 100 hour maintenance, I pull the plugs and very lightly coat the threads with a high heat grease. No need to use anti-seize if you do it that often.

I still recommend that you pull the T-stats and test them. Even new ones get stuck.

BTW - here is a good link explaining how to test an HO2 sensor. The problem is, you need to know which wires are for the heater circuit and which are for the signal circuit. The Helm shop manual seems to indicate that the two white wires are the heater circuit and the black and grey wires are the sensor circuit. (Page 5-27)

http://www.autozone.com/repairinfo/...sHowTo&pageId= 0996b43f80a01215&subtitle=test

Chawk you are a gem on this site

I am understanding more how the systems work, I am more into the killing fish than turning wrenches, the outboard is just a necessity to get me where I want. Looking over the service bulletin #56 some more, I see where it states that getting water into the combustion chamber may also cause spark plugs to corrode in the cylinder head. The plug I had that broke was a bottom plug on starboard side. I suspect it may have corroded into the head due to poor original exhaust design, allowing water into the bottom cylinder. At least I know where to look really close.

I ordered a new Honda OEM HO2 sensor with 3 day freight, I should have it this Friday.

I called the local Honda outboard shop an hour and a half away, the owner had no idea what Service Bulletin 56 was or what it would cost if they did the work, I explained what it was, he told me my motor lasted this long, just throw another HO2 sensor in and go another 14 years (rolleyes) He would read the code with his laptop this Saturday if I brought it in while I was there. He told me they were in a new facility, I couldnt turn the boat and truck around at their shop, but if I unhooked the boat, they could turn the boat around with the forklift and I could rehook up the boat to the truck to get back out on the Highway. I didnt hang up with warm fuzzy feelings. I may need to find another shop, probably worth the drive ....what ever it is.

If I find time, I will pull plugs tonight.

Roger that.

Several folks on this forum have changed out the exhaust tubes themselves. The replacement kit is only about $110 on boats.net, plus a couple of gaskets and O rings, all described on the last page of SB #56. If you have a friend who is handy with wrenches, and drinks beer, a nice day, a case of beer, and some good fish might get the job done in a day or less. The SB seems pretty straight forward on how to do it.

Let us know what the plugs look like.

I didnt see anything on the plugs that had me to concerned, though I am open to other opinions....

I am awaiting my OEM HO2 sensor to arrive at this point so I can run it again and check codes

Starboard bottom first and counter clockwise after that

Pretty good, but the first one looks a little funky. Note that the other five show that the tip of the iridium anode is shiny, but not the first one. It's probably OK, but maybe switch it with one of the others when you put it back in, or replace that one.

Those plugs are certainly not sooty, so I'm not sure what your HO2 sensor was doing.

Check those thermostats.

Also, pull your oil dipstick, check your oil level, and see if there is any smell of gasoline.

I pulled the thermostats tonight. Not pristine clean on the frame, but not as bad as some I have seen.





I have never done the heat them in water trick, thanks for that one, I will use it later in life. Not sure how exact my thermometer was, but it looked like they started to open about 135 degrees and were fully open by 140 degrees.

I put them back in the motor, since I didnt have replacements.

Close enough! To double check, the next time you have the engine heated up good, use an infrared heat gun to check the temperatures of the manifolds while the engine is running. They should be right at 160 degrees F. You can get an inexpensive IR gun at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool.

So let us know what happens when you install the new HO2 sensor.

So back to the oil problem. First, make sure that your oil is not overfilled. It happens a lot. With the engine level, oil level should be below the top dimple on the dipstick. Also, smell the oil for any smell of gasoline.

Then your next steps are to adjust the valves, do a compression test, and a leak down test. You are probably going to need a pro to do those. Adjusting the valves correctly on these beasts is a PITA.

I tried to smell the oil last night, I didnt smell any gas in the oil, and the fill level is just below the top dimple. Oil looked a little thin on the dipstick, but it was warm out. I tried to burn a couple drops, it didnt want to ignite with a lighter.

I have an IR gun, I will throw it in the boat for a on the water test of the manifolds

I have a compression test set up I used on an old outboard I bought. Not sure how I tighten up the screw in portion down those holes where the plugs are??? I guess just hand tight??? When running a test I was told a few years ago all the plugs had to be out to do it right. Do you have thoughts on that?? Pull one plug at a time and test, or do I need to pull all plugs and test each cylinder then.

Adjusting valves and leak down test sounds like something I dont want to tackle. Changing the exhaust pieces in Bulletin 56 looks pretty easy assuming all the bolts come out and I dont break a bunch of them off getting there.

Thanks Chawk, I need to send you a bottle of your favorite drink.

Compression test - pull all plugs, fully charged & strong battery, kill switch activated (unless you want a shocking experience), throttle full open, crank for each test at least 10 seconds. Record top compression on each cylinder. If one or two cylinders are way off the norm. Retest, closely checking the seal. Check local auto parts stores for a deep adapter. Adapter needs a good seal at the plug base.

Post the numbers and let's see what you have. If compression is off, then you will need that valve adjustment and may want to consider a decarb treatment. Given the age and hours of your engine, I'm surprised that a valves were not checked/adjusted in the past. Should be done every 400 hours.

I am not sure I want to tell you this part........

When I had the boat built in 2004, I bought the motor on the crate from a dealer and I delivered it to the boat builder. Builder bolted the motor on the boat for me since I didnt have a way to pick up the 600lb motor and he had a crane. I rigged the boat in its entirety, when the welding was done the builder was done. The dual hydraulic steering took a bit to figure out, the electrical was easy, the windows were easy, etc.... Motor has never been in to a shop for service, I change the oil every 100 hours, lower end oil every year, I have put in 3 or 4 water pump impellers. When I broke the plug off, I knew a guy who knew a retired Honda service guy, the retired guy pulled the heads for me and had a local machine shop remove the busted plug and helicoil the head. The retired guy has health issues in not an option at this point. Other than that she just burns fuel and pushes me across the ocean. It isnt I dont trust outboard mechanics, I dont trust outboard mechanics. :rolleyes:

I will work on a compression test, (dropping the port lower cowling to pull the lower plug is a design annoyance (2 cents) )

Hoping for good compression numbers,

Stopped at two auto parts stores today, neither had a deep hard adapter to screw the compression tester tight into the head. My Harbor Freight compression tester has rubber extensions that I screwed hand tight into the head, I got some twist on the hose. I greased the threads a little each time so I had a bit better seal.




Pulled all 6 plugs, kill switch engaged, throttle wide open...

Started at top right and worked clockwise. The middle Starboard side was low at 150, so when I was done I came back to it and did it again, got the exact same 150

Looking at the motor from the back here were my readings. High of 170, low of 150. The high reading was my helicoil hole where I busted the plug off.





My OEM HO2 should arrive tomorrow.

That's not too bad. Sort of what I would expect from a 14 year old engine with 2000 hours. My 07 with 2000+ hours wasn't much higher. I have no idea why the lower starboard was higher, except maybe the helicoil gave it a better seal.

So, t-stats are good, compression is decent, plugs look OK. So hopefully, the OEM HO2 sensor should be all you need to get back on those tuna. Keep a close eye on the oil level and any further evidence of a sheen on the water. If you'r really lucky, the leaner burn from the new HO2 sensor will clean up that problem too.

Keep us posted.

Thanks Chawk, I will report back later. Tonight I screw in a new Ho2, put another 100+ gallons of fuel in the boat and head West before daylight tomorrow. No chlorophyll shots from the satellites this week with the cloud cover on the ocean. Hoping I am less than 50 miles from land when we find tuna tomorrow.

HO2 sensor showed up Friday put it in the boat and headed to the beach. Launched and before I was 2 boat lengths from the dock, the alarm was going off &%(#&(_#*&#

Idle up and make a wake leaving the harbor was my only option to keep alarm silent after a restart. Every time we would idle down to land a fish, the alarm would go off $&^@(*&^

After a 3 hour run across the ocean, I pulled the cowling and while still doing about 10mph so it couldnt cool off, I used my infrared temp gun I shot between low 140's and high 150's on various spots on the heads.

When we would stop there was an oil sheen on the water behind the motor, every time all day. It even smelled like fuel. With the motor off for at least 10 minutes and drifting in a 10 not wind there was a slick still coming off the motor. It does not look like oil, it looks more like fuel. Possibly a leak???????

When I got home today I pulled the codes again and believe I only have one code now, code 1 as I read the blinky light.

https://goo.gl/photos/futEK5KhaqmJjqVq8

I washed the back of the motor off before this trip and again I return looking I have been rolling coal. Lots of black soot on the back of the motor, which was never a problem before I had this alarm issue.




Checked oil dip stick when I got home, down a very very small amount, not enough to even add any oil.

After looking at service bulletin 56 and it stating I need 5.9 inches from exhaust to waterline. I dont have that most of the time. My motor sits pretty low in the water, but it has sat there for 13 years, so I dont put much stock in that as being the current problem. I think there are times those exhaust ports may be underwater.

The only good thing is we caught some albacore

Aw heck that's annoying
Still following this as there's much to learn.
I don't understand why the new O2 sensor kicked off so quickly - makes me wonder whether the ECU is having a problem.

Like metal-chicken am also following.
Are you following Service Bulletin 70? Am sure Chawk will confirm but depending on your engine model and sensor used they ask for the ECM to be changed.
Chawk sent me the bulletin a while ago - happy to forward to you if you let me know your email address.
Those fish must have taken some fighting!

That's some nice albacore, but I'm very sorry to hear that the problems are still there.

Besides possibly a bad ECU suggested by Metal-chicken, you may have a fuel pressure problem. It could be too high or too low. Once the engine revs up, it could be resolving itself. Right on top of the HP fuel filter, there is a fuel pressure relief bolt and seal. Items 40 & 48 at: http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...02/BF225A2 LA/VAPOR SEPARATOR ASSY/parts.html

Get a fuel pressure gauge with the proper 6 mm adapter and check it at idle. It should be between 42 and 48 psi, if memory is correct. Before doing that, inspect the area around the HP filter and pressure relief bolt to make sure there are no leaks. While you are there, have someone turn on the key switch, which will activate the fuel pump and pressurize the system. That flimsy O ring that seals the top of the filter casing to the base can easily fail.

If fuel pressure is too high, then you're going to need to start looking at all of the other filters and screens between the HP filter and the fuel rail to the injectors. I have a list of those which I've posted before on this forum. If fuel pressure is too low, then you'll need to check your low pressure fuel filter, fuel feed lines, and low pressure fuel pump.

BTW - you don't need to totally pull off the upper cowling to get to the HP filter (or the lower plugs.) Open up both sides of the upper cowling by first removing the two bolts under the cover at the rear of the engine – those two below the exhaust outlet. Remove the six or so bolts on each half of the top of the cowling.
Peel back each side of the cowling so it clears the exhaust outlets. That will give you adequate access.

The black smudges on the exhaust are a real mystery given how good your plugs looked.

Thanks for the directions on the next part of the motor to focus on. This is like a scavenger hunt, as I look around the motor for the treasure, which is really just the problem.

I had a half hour before work this morning, so I pulled the cowling, and dropped the starboard side lower cowling so I could get a closer look at the high pressure fuel filter area. It smelled like fuel in the area. I turned on the battery switch and turned the key to on and when I got back to the motor the black fitting that attached at the bottom of the high pressure fuel cover plate was wet with fuel at that rusty bolt. I saw one drip that looked like it came from the O ring under the cover on the high pressure fuel filter. Hard to tell exactly where it came from, or the leak originated, it wouldnt drip again, but the rusty bolt on the bottom of the fuel line that leaves the area in the pic was wet with fuel but it wouldnt drip from there. The drip I saw was just forward of that like it was coming from the O ring under the cover plate. It would have been easier if I had it dry and had somebody else turn the key, but nobody else was out of bed yet. :rolleyes:

Looks like I am ordering all new gaskets and O rings for that area today, as when I tear it apart I want new seals going back in.





So when I get a fuel pressure tester with a 6mm adaptor, where would one attach this 6 mm fitting. Is it the bolt where the flimsy seal is at on 40 and 48 mentioned on the Boats.net diagram?? I assume I am looking for a 6mm male threaded fitting?

I am resisting the urge to list a motor for sale in the classifieds, and repower

Well, you may have solved the fuel slick problem. That picture doesn't look like my setup at all. Apparently Honda moved some stuff around between the time your engine was made and when mine was made. Try to find exactly where the leak is coming from. You may need to run it in a barrel of water with the prop off. But, I believe that the rusty bolt is the fuel pressure relief bolt. Try to compare your set up with that in the parts diagram link above. However, if that is a fuel line coming into it, then it should be well clamped, and it's not clamped at all.

Strange that it's rusted like that.

Order a new bolt and new seal - parts 40 and 48 in the diagram. And of course, replace the fuel filter.

I think the angle of the pic has you off, that is looking up at the high pressure filter. A side shot looked like this



I think your 40 and 48 are the bolt there on the side with the bolt head towards the camera, with the 01 or the upside down 10 on the bolt head

The rusty bolt in the pic is coming vertical thru the black fitting on the bottom of the high pressure fuel cover. You cant quite see the rusty bolt in the pic above, but I think it is the bolt shown in the pic below marked in red arrow.



and that fuel line the bolt anchors and goes over the joint set (part #6) on this diagram



At least that is the fuel line I think that goes to the joint set at the bottom of the high pressure fuel cover plate. The diagrams dont show what ties where, between different pics, but when I look at the fuel diagram, that appears to be the fuel line with the black fitting on the bottom of the cover plate.

Has the leaking fuel taken the coating off the bolt head allowing it to rust?? I will get a good look at it this afternoon when it is all dry and no morning dew and moisture left from the last trip. It is open and should be dry, I will have somebody turn the key on so I can see where the fuel emerges from, it takes a few seconds to get from inside the cabin at the key switch to the back of the motor and by then it was all wet with fuel.

new bolt and all the gaskets, o rings in the area on order, Boats.net says 2 to 5 days, which is usually 5 days to my side of the country.

OK. That all makes sense, now. Well, one thing about this scavenger hunt (or chasing rabbits, whatever) is that you are learning a lot more about your engine. Perhaps more than you ever wanted to know.

So, if there is a fuel leak, making the pressure too low at idle, that COULD cause the alarm and code "1" and also be the cause of the fuel sheen on the water. Here's hoping.

chawk_man said:

OK. That all makes sense, now. Well, one thing about this scavenger hunt (or chasing rabbits, whatever) is that you are learning a lot more about your engine. Perhaps more than you ever wanted to know.

So, if there is a fuel leak, making the pressure too low at idle, that COULD cause the alarm and code "1" and also be the cause of the fuel sheen on the water. Here's hoping.

Click to expand...

I already had that hope, just like last week I hoped the HO2 sensor fixed my problems, and hoped that power ball ticket was a winner (I would have a much bigger boat) Fuel leak doesnt explain the black soot on the motor, but it could silence the alarm and fix the oil slick.

I learned where the high pressure filter was a few years ago when I was having fuel starving problems, I didnt even know that filter was there. When I changed it, that problem was resolved. Another new filter on the way since I will be in there.

I'm speculating here, but if the fuel pressure is too low, the ECU may be trying to compensate by providing a longer pulse to the injectors and you're not getting an efficient burn, thus the reduced fuel economy and black on the exhaust outlets. Just maybe.

While I am waiting for parts, where would one hook up the fuel pressure device assuming I can find one??

Had my son turn the key tonight while I looked for the location of the leak, I think I found a source to a problem. Video shows a fuel leak that could be affecting my mileage :rolleyes:

[video]https://goo.gl/photos/rCnBkVR2hSBqkeaKA[/video]


Crack in the high pressure filter housing, ....that piece looks like a PIA to get off the motor. Those bolts from the top look like a whole pile of stuff has to come off to get to.



I dont think I will hunt for a fuel pressure gauge until I get the crack in the dam repaired. Looks like plenty of pressure, maybe to much

I got it apart, have no idea if I can get it back together (praying)

It all went pretty good except for the 4 little screws holding on the busted filter housing, twisted all 4 heads off. Got some penetrating oil on it over night, will work on them tomorrow after some soak time. May have to buy that piece also if I cant get them out *&$^@)*$__



Had more black oily soot in those holes than I liked




Hole where the fuel system use to be, going to difficult in a week or so when parts get here to remember what all went where.




After a day of penetrating oil, we will see how many parts I need to order.

Well, good for ya. You certainly found one of the key problems and that leak could be the source of all your problems. Hard to tell at this point.

While you're in there you might want to pull out the high pressure pump and clean the screen on the bottom of the holder it sits in. Carb cleaner should work well. And if you want to clean out the soot and oily gunk from the intakes, carb cleaner should work well for that, too. If it's really nasty, use brake cleaner.