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  1. #1
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    Aug 2012
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    Boston
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    Default Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Hi all, I think i'm closer on doing this than I thought. Was planning for winter / spring. I have all the parts listed from a local shop, but think its a little high. I was wondering if someone could recommend a second estimate. I'm looking at about $2400 for parts on both motors.

    Also, another question about elbow sizes. I guess i have earlier shorter ones. So I can get them, but I could also go with the newer if i have the clearance. Anyone know? I can measure, but the boat is a 31' '94 Tiara. I believe my friend has both versions on his '96 EFI's. So I think I have the clearance.


    "Those are the very early elbows. These were replaced by the taller R029015, they are 1-3/4 inches taller than what you have. Do you have the hatch clearance?"


    thanks!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Hey Saltshaker,
    Went through that drill on my 29 Blackfin. Reposted my experience below. Hope it helps.

    The first and biggest challenge is removing the old units. I would strongly recommend first cutting off the exhaust tubes attached to the outer elbows (assuming the outer tubes terminate to a 45 degree fiberglass fitting). Wireless tubes can simply be cut off with a utility knife. Wire tubes will require a Dremel tool to cut the coils to simplify removal. If the boat is in the water the exhaust outlets at the transom must be plugged or expect to be terrified when a deluge flows in as soon as the outer exhaust tube is removed. I found a rubber cap used for PVC tubing that had an OD exactly correct to plug the exhaust at the transom. To minimize water/coolant intrusion into the exhaust manifolds during removal, attempt to drain any residual raw water from the elbows by removing the brass plugs from the base of the elbows, and disconnect the coolant hose from the manifold and drain as much coolant as possible to get the level below the elbow mating surface.


    Unbolting the elbows would seem to be straight forward eight long bolts and eight nuts on studs. My problem was one bolt that was seriously stalled due to corrosion between the bolt and the mounting bore. A sheared bolt would have been a major setback. A few minutes with the blue tip wrench on the lower boss and the bolt backed out fine. One nut was heavily rusted to the stud and sheared at the bearing surface no big deal since I was replacing all the hardware. After removing the bolts and nuts is when it gets a little crude. It is very common for rust to form between the stud shanks and the associated mounting bores of the elbows. You cannot merely lift the elbows off the studs ! Women and kids should not be present for the next phase of the operation. The school solution is to employ a four-pound plus sledge and whack the elbows from side to side to rock the units up the studs. A heavy sledge is essential since low velocity impacts still carry much energy (KE=1/2MV**2 for the Dilbert types). The studs were heavily corroded in my case, however, numerous whacks and much Deep Creep later the old Blackfin finally yielded all four elbows.
    The studs were easily unscrewed from the manifold using a stud puller. The old gaskets were scrapped off and the surfaces on the manifold and block-off plate were cleaned with acetone. All the threads were chased and new studs were installed dry and tightened in place with the stud puller. Marine grease was smeared around the shanks of the studs in hope of avoiding the Thor routine next time. I researched the issue of sealer on the gaskets on the internet and did not find any reliable direction. Many recommended installing gaskets dry while others recommended Permatex. One troop went dry but later regretted it when leaks developed. I elected to use a light film of Permatex aroundall openings.
    Low profile OEM elbows are no longer available so I researched aftermarket options. The wrench-benders at my local marina were down on the elbows made offshore. Their biggest dissatisfaction was a high degree of porosity which limited longevity. I went with Barr units (CR20-98126) ordered from BoatersPlus. They appear to be perfect replacements already painted Crusader blue, great fit, include new gaskets and a complete hardware kit, and made inthe USA. I also ordered four additional gaskets since two are required per elbow (FWC manifolds). Service from Boaters Plus was excellent ordered Sunday night and had them in hand to do the job the following Saturday.
    With the gaskets gooped and in position, I maneuvered the elbows into the exhaust tubes while slipping the elbows on to the studs. I elected to put anti-seize on the bolt threads which some do not recommend. I also greased the bolt shanks. After tightening the hardware in sequence, the job was pretty much over. The final issue was the 1.0 inch water hose fittings on the elbows (CRU97911). The only way to remove the fittings is with a pipe wrench. I managed to remove all four but cracked three of them when they collapsed slightly under the load of the wrench. OEM units are available but cost $25 plus. I went with Mercury Part Number: 22-807155 which is compatible and only cost $7. It also has a hex fitting which simplifies removal/installation.
    Hope anyone taking on this challenge finds this helpful. Every three years or so the elbows need to be changed and patience and planning will make the job just a little easier and predictable. Everything considered, it was not that bad. Not looking forward to doing it again any time soon !!
    Last edited by Mulletwagon; 07-18-2017 at 07:47 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    your MANIFOLDS should be ok but your RISERs and ELBOWs are service items....assuming only the essentials, $2400 seems real high.....

    As far as other options, you are best to measure what you have so you can assess any changes - fit in particular.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Thanks guys for the info! Mulletwagon, that's very informative. I'm a little handy lol, so I'll most likely have someone do these for me. I'll probably be his helper. He did my fuel pump switch over the weekend and he just did my friends '96 efi's. So he's pretty familiar with my ER layout now . They had to drill out some bolts and probably will on mine.

    Makomark, the boat was in salt before I bought it about 5 years ago. I think they were done just before. I use the boat in salt, but do slip it in fresh / brackish water. I had them tuned up in May and the yard said to do them next year. So that's the main reason i'm hoping to finish out the season. I don't have any trips planned other than some light use. My mechanic the other day, thought, I could do them anytime now. So this has changed my tune a bit. As much as I don't want to tie the boat up mid season, I rather not blow a motor. Also, I looked at my friends efi's last night. And he has the taller elbow on port motor and shorter on stbd. They all look to fit just fine, we have the same boat, so I'm assuming close to same engine measurements. I can add a pic if that helps.

    Anyway, this all started me on getting the part list together. I got a full list of bolts, etc. So that's what makes up the $. I don't mind using the local shop, I think they're the only game around. I'm just trying to figure out if its outrageous. a manifold and elbow is about $350 and $325 respective. So those alone get me to about $2700. The rest is minor cost. The $2400 reflects some discounts which maybe be normal. He did mention that my manifolds are probably ok, so really I'd be hoping to do just the elbows. I don't have risers, as far as i know.

    I assume its ok to discuss the cost here? Also, don't mind using local if I do have a problem with a part, etc.

    thx

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    I'd skip the manifolds and just to the elbows.....the price you offered up is retail price - I think the aftermarkets ones are fine though many here prefer the OEM (painted) parts.

    If your friends boat has the same engine boxes you should be good there....

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Quote Originally Posted by makomark View Post
    I'd skip the manifolds and just to the elbows.....the price you offered up is retail price - I think the aftermarkets ones are fine though many here prefer the OEM (painted) parts.

    If your friends boat has the same engine boxes you should be good there....

    that would save me $1400.....so then i'm down to a reasonable number

    Maybe a dumb question, but why skip the manifolds? Do they hold up better? Or don't have the same corrosion / rust as the elbows?

    thx
    Last edited by Saltshaker; 07-19-2017 at 01:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    To be clear, I'm going on the assumption you have FWC so there is coolant in the exhaust manifolds.....they will last forever as long as the coolant is maintained. The elbows (& risers) are subject to accelerated effects of corrosion. they are also relatively thin in cross section compared to the rest of the exhaust system; the end result is the nominal 5 year replacement cycle (depends upon the local environment a good bit).

    if the manifolds are raw water cooled, they usually last thru many elbow replacements....they are thicker and they usually stay 'wet' which helps to slow the corrosion.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Hi thanks that's helpful explanation. I am FWC. Interesting a friend last night was telling me there's different FWC systems. He has older Merc's in a 30 sea ray (early 80's vintage) and said he's totally FWC in his motors. And said I'm sorta half half. I never knew there was a '3rd' category. Raw, FWC and it seems both.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    i think somebody got in the alternative facts loop.

    there are three types: raw water cooled, and two FWC versions - the difference is where or not the exhaust manifolds are included in the coolant loop (then its a FULL FWC setup) or in the raw water side (then its a half FWC setup) and the latter are pretty rare nowadays. The elbows are always cooled with raw water. The other variation is that on applications with risers, they can be on either the raw or closed side. most OEMs put them on the raw side....

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Hi, so how do I know? I've always called it FWC. I know its not raw water cooled. Also, looks like i have 3" of clearance so the taller elbows should work.

    thx

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    you mean between the full and the half FWC'd systems? Look in the owners manual or the engines.....and see how the exhaust manifolds are plumbed in. I usually look at the thermostat outlet hoses; if they go to the bottom on the exhaust manifolds, they are 'full' FWC systems (most typically used in the past 20+ years).

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    Hi, these two diagrams are in my manual. From looking at the FWC page, does it look like i'm 'full' FWC? Not sure how much it matters, but be nice to know.

    thx



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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    full!!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Elbows / Manifolds '94 454 XL's

    lol thank you!

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