Honda BF 130 Injector problem

Hi all. I have been having an issue with my BF 130 running rough and stalling. I initially thought a tune up would solve things so I installed new plugs, changed the oil, new impeller, and new high and low side fuel filters. The filter set up appears to be the newer one so I believe that when it was in to have the block checked for cracks in 2002 that they also updated the fuel system.

After the tune up it was still running rough so I removed spark plug wires one at a time and upon removing #3 there was no change. I found out while standing waist deep in saltwater that I do have spark to #3, which is a good time in case anyone was wondering.

At this point I started looking into the injectors and the injector and port on #3 was fouled with oily gunk. I cleaned the port and flushed all of the injectors using some carb cleaner and a 9 volt battery to open the injectors. I put everything back together but nothing had changed. I swapped the previously fouled injector with one of the others which had been working but still no change. I read a post on here from 2010 which explained that with the ignition in the on position I should have voltage at the injector connectors which I do.

I have 12.4 volts at each connector to ground. What is confusing to me is that I have 12.4 volts on all 8 injector wires to ground, and I have continuity to ground on all 8 as well???? I checked this with a true rms fluke meter

Despite this 3 of the 4 appear to be functioning properly.

The manual says I should have 11.1-12.3 ohms of resistance across the pins on the injector. I am reading 14 ohms across all 4 of them.

Should I be looking for a shorted wire in the harness between the injectors and the ECM? Should I be thinking bad ECM? Or is is possibly a compression issue?

I am planning on checking the #3 injector with a stethoscope to see if it is firing but first I have to replace the o-ring on the fuel rail as I damaged it during re-installation and it is now leaking.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

The stethoscope is a good idea....to be sure it is operating. If it passes that test....

Change the spark plugs....or at least.....swap one with another cylinder. It could just be a bad spark plug.

If that does not fix it.....it is time for compression test.

Mike

Funny you mention this I have the exact same problem. I have swapped plugs and injectors around with no change, #3 will not spray fuel. But what I have found is that if you unplug any one of the others #1,#2 or,#4 injector number #3 starts working. When I pull the plug wire on #3 there is no change in the idle and the plug is dry. If I unplug one of the other injectors and the pull the plug wire on #3 the engine dies down and will stall, I then check the #3 plug and it is wet which means that the injector works when I unplug one of the other injectors and doesn't with all 4 injectors plugged in.

I hope someone can chime in with some suggestions, but so far everything I can come up with leads be back to the ECU. I'm going to try and round up some new plugs and hope for the best. I think I will be chasing a electrical gremlin.

Thanks for the replies. I used the stethoscope and all of the injectors are firing. It's been doing this since before I changed the plugs so I doubt it's a plug but it's worth a shot. I'll try swapping plugs prior to compression test and then check compression. I got my hands on a second hand ECM for $175 so I swapped that out thinking that would be the fix but no change there either. I'm leaning towards a stuck valve at the moment.

TRX125, Have you checked the grounds? Your issue sounds quite similar to mine but if I disconnect any other injector or plug wire I stall out and nothing happens with #3. I am just guessing but the fact that you can get it to actuate by disconnecting another injector seems like it might be an electronic or grounding issue.

I'm actually working my way thru the wiring harness and grounds, I'll report back is and when I find something.

I need to find a ecm to swap out to see if that will change anything.

Checked compression. I have zero compression on number 3. I have 150 175 and 190 on the other three cylinders. Rotated engine to TDC mark on pulley for #3 and blew air into the cylinder to check for leaks. Didn't hear any air escaping from intake or exhaust valves. Any suggestions?

Did you check for air escaping from the crankcase(out of the oil filler hole), which would point towards a piston or cylinder problem, or possibly a blown head gasket.

Bob

I just ran air in again at tdc on #3 and then ran it around 360 degrees to TDC on #3 again and ran air into it through the spark plug hole. I have a plastic bag wrapped tight on the end of an air nozzle that I'm shoving into the hole so it's not the best set up but I'm hitting it with 100 psi or so and I don't hear air coming out anywhere. Not through the oil filler, and not through the valves? Don't know where it's going

Sounds very odd.

These motors have had issues with cracks in the block or the head to the water passage that affects #3, but usually after the low compression, a leak down verifies there is an issue.
If you are not hearing any air escaping....maybe your intake valve is stuck closed. Not allowing any air to come in when you do your compression test.

You might get some insight into the valve movement if you pull the valve cover and check the valve clearances. You might be lucky and the adjusting nut came loose and maybe fell off...keeping the valve from moving.

Mike

When I tested for compression the engine sounded much different with the gauge in #3 than in the other 3. Like the vac gauge was putting a strain on the starter due to the vacuum on every cylinder other than#3.

The block was previously checked because the cowling is marked.

I currently have the valve cover off and I have been manually rotating the engine. I haven't checked the clearances yet but the valves all appear to be moving normally and the adjusting screws and nuts appear to be in place and to be approximately tightened the same. I'll check into the stuck intake valve, that makes sense. Thank you Mike!

Upon further inspection, #3 exhaust valves were tight at TDC so I loosened them up probably 1/2 to 1 full turn (didn't pay too close attention) but exhaust valve had been depressed at TDC. I am now getting 110 psi on #3. quite a bit less than the best which is at 190, but way better than what I had. Any suggestions? Where should I be on PSI off the starter? Would it help to add lucas oil to the oil to increase viscosity and subsequently pressure? Thanks.

I should mention, I just realized I didn't test it after it warmed up. I am just turning it over with the starter and all plugs have been out for a couple of days.

Ok, the best I can get with it warmed up on #3 is 115 psi. The other cylinders are 150, 175, and 190 still. I slowly ran a can of sea foam through the vac hose that connects to the pcv valve to introduce it into the air intake. It didn't seem to make a difference. I'd feel way better if I could bring up the pressure on that cylinder. Any ideas as to whether running it without firing properly for an extended period of time could have cause damage, or if there is anything I can try to bring the pressure up? Thanks again for the replies. I wouldn't be this far without the help.

Hi trx125. I now have a spare ECM which works fine which I purchased thinking that was my problem. If interested let me know. It's used but works fine.

Thanks for the offer. I fixed all the grounds and a broken wire and it started working. I then readjusted the valves and had it running good. Took it out for a maiden voyage and about 1.5 miles into my trip the engine died and had to have it towed back to dock. I pulled the timing cover off and the balancer pulley had walked off the shaft again and took out both belts. I am the process of replacing the timing belt and checking to see how F%^$ed up my engine is. I will update you more once I know more. Hope you get your issue corrected and have good luck.

Wow. I am sorry to hear that. You've got to be furious. I hope it's not bad. I didn't realize the balancer pulleys did that. Is that a common occurence?

Furious, nah! I just had to laugh and have a beer. I'll have to pull the head and replace the bent valves and check the pistons for damage. If I would have had the correct tools with me yesterday on the boat, I would've unbolted the motor and dumped it in the lake and paddled back to the dock. From what I can find no one had ever heard of anything like this before, but this is the second time it had happened. I'm going to cure it this time though, I'll drill and tap a hole in the shaft and use a button cap bolt to hold the pulley on this time.

If you need anything for the head let me know. There is a shop near me that tears down second hand outboards and she has 3 x BF 130s. She sold me the ECM for $175. I can put you in touch with her if so.

You may have implied it, but did you check the timing marks? That is to say, when the cam mark is on #1, is the crank pulley mark aligned with its mark? The mark on the pulley is very small and sometimes difficult to see. If the timing belt has jumped one notch, it could cause some bad readings. Normally, though, all the cylinders are affected.

180 to 190 are pretty typical numbers just cranking it.

You could shoot a little oil into #3 and see if the compression comes up...indicating potential cylinder or ring issue.

Yes, it is possible to damage the cylinder if you continue to try to use it....depending on what is wrong. You said that the block had been inspected, however, in certain serial number ranges, cracks develop in the head, allowing water to enter cylinder #3. If it does this long enough, the cylinder can get scored/damaged.

Mike

Thanks for the offer, right now I'm in the tear down stage and I'll have to inspect everything and see where I'm at. It really puzzles me why the balancer pulley keeps coming off.

Hi Mike,

I just put an ounce or less of oil into the cylinder through the plug port and compression jumped up to 150 psi. I'm guessing that's bad news. I haven't checked the timing marks yet. Trying to cook for dinner for the kids and tinker when I get a minute.

I got mine torn apart and not one bent valve, but I did have a valve the was slightly burnt at some point in time. When the belt broke it hit the valve and cracked the edge of the valve and left chunks missing in the face of the valve.

Honda BF 130 said:

If you need anything for the head let me know. There is a shop near me that tears down second hand outboards and she has 3 x BF 130s. She sold me the ECM for $175. I can put you in touch with her if so.

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Do you know if that parts place near you has a good bare head? I may be screwed. I sent you a PM.

I am having the same issue but with Cylinder#4. Apparently the port engine had an issue with water entering the head and had to be rebuilt (before I bought the boat). Seems like there is a common thread with these Honda Motors and water intrusion...

trx125 said:

Funny you mention this I have the exact same problem. I have swapped plugs and injectors around with no change, #3 will not spray fuel. But what I have found is that if you unplug any one of the others #1,#2 or,#4 injector number #3 starts working. When I pull the plug wire on #3 there is no change in the idle and the plug is dry. If I unplug one of the other injectors and the pull the plug wire on #3 the engine dies down and will stall, I then check the #3 plug and it is wet which means that the injector works when I unplug one of the other injectors and doesn't with all 4 injectors plugged in.

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