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  1. #1

    Default 50 HP Force Won't start

    Hey everyone, so first off I have no experience with boat engines. I had a class where we learned the basics of small engines so I have some engine experience but none with boat engines specifically.
    So I'm restoring my dad's old Grumman aluminum bass boat, (probably about 16 ft but that's probably irrelevant) and I'm working on getting the engine running. I bought a new battery and when I hook everything up to it and try to start it makes a pop noise which I assume is the spark plug, but that's all that happens. My dad told me that means its either took much corrosion/resistance in the starting wires/connections or its the starter in the engine. My question is: what can I do to figure out why it isn't starting? I saw somewhere that I may be able to test the starter itself using a battery and jumper cables, is that a good strategy? I don't want to cut all the wire connections and reconnect them unless I have to. Any ideas/suggestions are appreciated! I attached some pictures for reference; the ones of the wires are in the steering console. Let me know if I need to clarify anything and thanks everyone!



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    Last edited by bbar97; 06-02-2017 at 12:02 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Clean all the electrical connections to shiny brite. That pop is not a spark plug it is probably a bad connection that is popping.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    The electrical connections in the engine or along the wires leading to the ignition switch?

  4. #4

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    All the connections on the motor, Battery cables, starter connections,solenoid connections and all the grounds. Make sure you disconnect the battery before cleaning anything.
    Last edited by flyingscott; 06-02-2017 at 02:42 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    I've cleaned all the connections and it hasn't fixed it. I've been looking at posts of similar problems and they seem to fix it by replacing the slave solenoid, do you think that could be it? After listening to it a bit more its more like a muffled click than a pop, and its definitely coming from either one of the solenoids, a circuit breaker next to the solenoid, or inside the main engine block area.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    You have 1 solenoid and 2 relays.
    The relays are for the trim and tilt.
    Looks like the relays are in the front of the motor.
    The starter solenoid is at the back of the motor(possibly under a plastic shield)

    12V test light.

    The solenoid has 4 posts.
    2 big ones are for the battery cables, 1 in and the 2nd is out to the starter.
    The 3rd. is a ground.
    4th is the yellow/ red lead from the key switch.
    Have someone turn the key and test the 3 posts that have 12v going through them.
    When the key's turned you should have 12v on all 3.
    No power to the big post to the starter? then the solenoids bad.
    Power through all 3, then the starter is bad.

    It's easy to clean these starters and replace the brushes.
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

  7. #7

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    I tested the three posts, and two of them had 12v or over and one I think had 11.6 which should be close enough right? So I should take the starter off and try to clean it?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Yes if the power is through the solenoid, then the starter's dragging.
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

  9. #9

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Alright I tried cleaning it to no avail, so I ordered a new one. Hopefully that'll fix it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Test light at the post on the starter?
    Battery good? Load test?

    Load testers 25$ at Harbor Freight.
    One of the BEST tools in my toy box.
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

  11. #11

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Well I got the new starter and now it turns the flywheel but nothing happens, It just turns a little but no combustion occurs. Fuel is new, battery is good, so Is it most likely the carburetor? I'm cleaning it and trying to clean out the needle to see if that helps. I noticed there was no gas in the area that the float sits in, is there supposed to be? I'm a little rusty on how that works.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Have to ask: you using the choke? you squeezing the ball? you using fast idle?

    Yes once you squeeze the ball and itt gets hard there should be a full bowl of fuel.

    If you squeeze and no fuel, then the needle might be clogged?
    Or the hose to the carb is bad.
    The inline connectors go bad after time.
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

  13. #13

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Well I tested it and fuel definitely flows through the hose to the carb. I couldn't manage to get the long hollow needle out, is it supposed to come out? And I think one end is plugged purposely, which I don't understand since its a hollow needle.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    IF it doesn't come apart easily?? then don't try.

    Do a compression and then a spark test.

    You have a kill switch? See if it's working?
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

  15. #15

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Hey so here's an update, after some troubleshooting i'm pretty sure the problem is a blue switch type box pictured below. The spark plugs aren't sparking at all and I followed the wires to this box. Starter gets power and the solenoid that goes to the starter gets power, but the box doesn't. I looked up replacement parts and I found
    this one
    http://www.marineengine.com/newparts...m=CDI182-4475R
    and this one
    http://www.marineengine.com/newparts...um=CDI116-8301
    my question is, am I on the right track and if so are these the only replacement parts I will need? It doesn't look like they would fit in the brackets I currently have but maybe someone knows whether or not they will fit.

    Thanks for any help!

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  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Those parts "MIGHT" help??
    Probably not.They might be wrong.
    What year and model is your motor.
    Close up pics of the blue things helps.

    Very rare that both packs go bad.
    The

    You need to do more testing.
    outboardignition.com has test procedures for your motor.
    You need to test the stator and see if it's good.

    Does your ignition system have a kill switch on the dash?

    When posting always include the year, model and close up pics of any parts in question.
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

  17. #17

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Sorry for posting so erratically, I only get to work on it over the weekends. So here's where I am now. Its a 1989 Force 50 HP engine just for reference. I got a volt meter with a DVA adapter to test some of the wires and connections and I tested all the posts to see where I have power and where I don't. From doing that I know for sure that I have 12V in the starter solenoid, the starter, a couple other things I don't know the names of, and to these small black boxes which I think may be circuit breakers? Not sure what they are. So all the parts that I confirmed are getting 12V are in the section of pictures below.

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    _______________________

    I've gone to outboardignition.com and tested according to these steps at the top of the screen except for step 3 because i'm not sure that's even possible without any sparks and step 4 I don't know how to test these with the stator still on the engine. (and I don't have wires of those colors)

    http://www.outboardignition.com/page10.asp

    The plugs still wouldn't spark after removing the yellow wires from the stator or the kill wire. This along with the knowledge of all of the other parts that I know are getting juice leads me to believe it has to be either the stator, trigger, CD module, or ignition coils. Is this a correct assumption? If so how can I test further? I would like to test the stator and trigger without removing them since I don't have a puller or even a wrench large enough to remove the nut at the top of the flywheel, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Are there any other tests I can do so I can know more specifically where the problem is coming from? Below is a picture of the CD module and ignition coils. Let me know if you need more pictures. Thanks!

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  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    2,402

    Default Re: 50 HP Force Won't start

    Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK. "white wire on the bus bar"
    Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.
    Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, readings should be approximately 180 volts or more.
    Check the stator resistance, you should read 680-800 ohms, DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow

    (Note - On some two cylinder engines, the stator has Iwo blue wires and no yellow wire. The stator will read from blue to blue). All stator wires should read open to engine ground.dings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.

    Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier


    Check stator and trigger resistance, trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets (DVA-5V or more), stator reads 680-800 ohms, DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow.
    If readings are good, disconnect kill wire from pack. If the dead cylinder starts firing, the problem is likely the blocking diode in the other pack.
    NO FIRE ON TWO CYLINDERS:
    If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator.

    outboardignitiondotcom has procedures for the test.
    Some of these tests are on U-tube
    88 Bayliner with 2002 225 HP Mercury EFI

    Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
    ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

    In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

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