225 intermittent check engine light

Another 2 problems..
1. engine is about a year old - about 80 hours. A few weeks ago, the check engine light went on. It happened while trolling at about 3 mph. I shut down the engine immediately, checked that nothing was blocking the water intakes, and restarted. Was good for a week. Then same thing. This time, I just started the engines at the dock and was idling for about 3 minutes and the check engine light went on. Again, shut it off, turned it on and no alarm for another day. Then it started happening more frequently. Today it happened 3 times, at idle speed.
Here's the thing. I can't take it to a honda dealer. I have been using a mobile mechanic who doesn't have a honda computer. There is one local dealer who I do not like. Last time I went there they kept the boat for 6 weeks in the middle of bass season to replace an o2 sensor.
The dealer I purchased the engines from are too far away - about 50 miles by water across open ocean. Don't want to try it with an engine I don't trust.
I called a few other local mechanics and nobody has a honda computer.
I am thinking the most likely culprit is an o2 sensor? No? So I am planning on just buying one and replace it myself and see what happens. Is there another sensor that is more likely? Any other way to diagnose it?

2. Problem with steering. Worked perfectly for years. Had a small leak in the helm for last 6 months. I checked fluid daily and added a little as needed. Last week the power steering pump started making a bad noise - whining. And the steering became hard - same as when I try to steer with the power steering off. I had the helm changed today and purged the system - that fixed the leak but not the power steering pump.. I read about a screen in the fitting on the power steering pump. The mechanic removed the hoses going to the pump but did not see a screen. The pump is seastar PA1200. Does this sound like I just need to replace the pump? I also have a garman gp10 autopiot. That works and the hard steering happens with the autopilot turned on or off so I am thinking it can't be a problem with the auotpliot? Hate to replace a $1500 pump needlessly

thanks.
Al

Can't help you with the power steering pump.

I do not recommend that you pay the big bucks for a new HO2 sensor until you are more confident that is the problem. As for the check engine light - was is solid or blinking? Any other lights on? (The green oil pressure light should be.)Was there an alarm. If so, was it constant or long intermittent, or short intermittent? Typically, a bad HO2 sensor with throw off an long intermittent alarm and the check engine light on solid and the green oil pressure light on solid. But that is not conclusive. It could be any problem with the programmed fuel injection system.

If you have the four-light key switch set up, you can pull the fault codes on this engine very easily using a paper clip or shunt wire. It's been posted several times on this forum. If you need a write up, send me an e-mail at [email protected].

When you pull fault codes and do get a fault code 1, that could indicated a faulty HO2 sensor. However, a bad connection at the HO2 sensor, a misfiring plug, a failing coil, or bad fuel pressure will also throw a code "1."

I have the 4 lights keyswitch. It was a constant alarm, constant light on the check engine light (although I only left them on for about 3-5 seconds).
I was thinking I could just swap the 02 sensor from the good engine to the bad and see if the alarm switches to the other engine?

Didn't realize you had dual engines. Yes, a swap should be conclusive if a bad HO2 sensor.

I actually have the 070PZ-ZY30100 but have no idea how to use it. I searched the forum but didn't see a step by step instruction (just a warning about blowing the expensive computer.
Can you tell me step by step how to use it to get the fault code? It is a Honda 225,bahj1800104

A quick video of how to use it and how to change the o2 sensor would probably be a big hit on YouTube!

I found your old post on it:
Takeoff the engine cover and the plastic cover over the electronics on the front of the engine. There you will see a red four-pronged female plug. That's where the service check connector plugs in. Alternatively, you can use a paper clip to shunt the lime green/white wire to the black wire – that is, the two wires that are closest to the engine when the red service connector is correctly set in it’s holder. If in doubt, invest in a SCS service connector.

If the MIL comes on, then goes off after a few seconds, there are no codes in the EPROM.

If the MIL starts blinking, then count the blinks, which will indicate the fault code. You may get long blinks and short blinks. For example, two long blinks,followed by five short blinks, would be a fault code 25. The blink sequence will repeat itself until you turn the key off. If there is more than one fault, you will get multiple fault codes. For example, three short blinks, followed by two long blinks and five shortblinks would be fault codes 3 and 25. If you do not have a shop manual, send me an e-mail at [email protected]and I will send you the codes. I blieve the fault codes for the 150 and the 225 are the same.

Here is a bit more detail that I wrote up a long time ago....

Take off the engine cover and then the black plastic cover over the electronics on the front of the engine. (This is the cover that sits right by the oil filter. Just unhook the rubber strap on the right and it will slide right off.) There you will see a red four-pronged female plug. Remove the plug from its holder by pressing down on the clip and pulling it to your right as you are facing it. Use a paper clip to shunt the lime green/white wire to the black wire – that is, the two wires that are closest to the engine when the red service connector is correctly set in its holder. If in doubt, invest in a SCS service connector, which you can order online - part number 070PZ-ZY30100.

Once connected, turn on the key switch and observe the number of blinks on the check engine (MIL) light. The blinks will repeat until you turn off the key.
If the MIL comes on, then stays on, there are no codes in the EPROM. This is contrary to what it implies in the Helm Shop Manual (Page 5-14.)

If the MIL starts blinking, then count the blinks, which will indicate the fault code. You may get long blinks and short blinks. For example, two long blinks, followed by five short blinks, would be a fault code 25. The blink sequence will repeat itself until you turn the key off.

If there is more than one fault, you will get multiple fault codes. For example, three short blinks, followed by two long blinks and five short blinks would be fault codes 3 and 25. Look up the codes on the accompanying .pdf file. Or, send me an e-mail at [email protected] and I will send you the codes.

If you get only one blink, that repeats about every three seconds, that is a faulty O2 sensor. If a faulty O2 sensor is indicated, first check the wiring and connector. A loose or corroded connection can set off that alarm. Also, a misfiring spark plug or failing coil can generate that fault code. Furthermore, the Honda diagnostic procedure implies that low fuel pressure can also trigger that code.

chawk_man said:

Take off the engine cover and then the black plastic cover over the electronics on the front of the engine. (This is the cover that sits right by the oil filter. Just unhook the rubber strap on the right and it will slide right off.) There you will see a red four-pronged female plug. Remove the plug from its holder by pressing down on the clip and pulling it to your right as you are facing it.

Click to expand...

I am sorry I am being so stupid with this... but I can't find where to plug it in. Here is a photo. There is a red plug near the oil filter (left yellow circle in the photo) - but the service connector doesn't fit - the service connector has a crossbar between the 2 sets of 2 pins and the red plug doesn't have a cut out for that.
There is a black plastic cover with electronic stuff in it - see right yellow circle - but there isn't a red plug or anything that I can plug into there?

Here is a closeup of the box - opened:

Whoa! That looks nothing like my 225. The oil filter is in the right place, but on my engine the fuse box is over on the port side. I think that there should be another plug that goes into that red socket to the left. That would be the service connector that you need to shunt. As soon as it stops raining, I will try to get out to my boat and see if I can figure out what you have there.

For some reason, all of my pictures did not turn out. However, here is what my service connector looks like.


As you can see, your set up is radically different from mine.

So, based on your pictures, try to get that red holder for the service connector out. It looks like it might just lift out of the metal holder. The service connector itself should be plugged into the back of that. Separate that, and plug in your shunt into the piece.

A little speculation here. I suspect Honda redesigned the wire routing for the engine in order to make it easier to get to the fuses while on the water, thus moving the fuse box to the front of the engine, and probably moved the various harness connectors behind the fuse box. Obviously, the designer never had to change the oil filter on that engine. It's tough enough as it is on my engine, but on Bigfoot's engine, you are bound to get some oil from the filter change onto the various plugs.

You were right.. I removed that red plug - it was plugged into the place I had to plug the service connector in.
I got a code of 1 which means o2 sensor or spark plug misfire. I am guessing o2 sensor because the engine works and sounds perfect.

I came back to order the sensor here on marineengine - but they don't see honda parts
So I am looking online now.
Thanks for your help.

chawk_man said:

A little speculation here. I suspect Honda redesigned the wire routing for the engine in order to make it easier to get to the fuses while on the water, thus moving the fuse box to the front of the engine, and probably moved the various harness connectors behind the fuse box. Obviously, the designer never had to change the oil filter on that engine. It's tough enough as it is on my engine, but on Bigfoot's engine, you are bound to get some oil from the filter change onto the various plugs.

Click to expand...

View attachment 15511
Stupid question #2: is the above part an oxygen sensor? On the honda website, it says the part number for the oxygen sensor is [FONT=&quot]35655-ZY3-C01
[/FONT]But that number is not stamped on my part (which I assume is an oxygen sensor)... my part has 3 lines of numbers:
B22690
40203-00
3726
None of these turn up anywhere online.
Could it have been the wrong part in my engine? I got it from the yellow circled area:

I'm looking at Honda service bulletin # 70. It says that new the HO2 sensor is part 35655-ZY3-C01, which is the replacement for the old (22 mm) HO2 sensor, part number 35655-ZY3-013. On Boats.net it's $207. See this link...

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/honda/H-35655-ZY3-C01.html

BTW - www.boats.net is probably the best place to get engine parts for Honda's.

chawk_man said:

I'm looking at Honda service bulletin # 70. It says that new the HO2 sensor is part 35655-ZY3-C01, which is the replacement for the old (22 mm) HO2 sensor, part number 35655-ZY3-013. On Boats.net it's $207.

Click to expand...

That is the right part number. I got a new one at a local store - it had the same markings - got ripped off but had it today. With boats.net they couldn't send it out until tuesday... didn't want to lose this holiday weekend.

I installed it and used it for 30 minutes with no alarms!
thanks for your help!

Great to hear that. Happy boating!!!!!!

chawk_man said:

Great to hear that. Happy boating!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Hallo,
I live in Italy, Sicily. Syracuse. Google translator help me to write this post.
Looking on web for oxygen sensor honda outboard I find this thread.
I have a BF 250 with oxygen sensor 35655-ZY3-C01 (like 225 AK1 2007 and later).
In my outboard oxygen sensor has been replaced (by warranty) at 18, 52, 92, 165 hours of operation
It is a known problem: sometimes sea ​​water go back from tube of propeller until the exhaust manifold and dirty progressively oxygen sensor that after a time more or less long perishes.
Now at 360 hours the check engine light went on again and I know the symptoms of the disease very well.
I am worried because I don't want to give Honda a lot of money to replace a lot of oxygen sensors in the future.
This is my problem an I ask to know if bigfoot3, or other forum users, have solved definitively the problem of Honda outboard's oxygen sensor.
Thanks

Welcome to this forum. There are a lot of folks on this forum that will try to help you out.

The first thing you should do is pull fault codes to confirm the problem is with the HO2 sensor. The procedure is attached, as well as the key for what the fault codes mean.

View attachment Procedure for Getting Fault Codes.pdf

View attachment MIL fault codes.pdf

The best procedure is to initially pull the fault codes, record them, then clear them. Old fault codes stay in the ECM until they are cleared. Then run the engine until it alarms, then pull the codes again.

A Code "1" could be the HO2 sensor, but a missing spark plug, a failing coil, or fuel pressure out of specification can also generate a code "1".

Also, the ONLY spark plugs these engines like is the NGK IZFR6F11. These are the iridium-tipped plugs and burn at the correct temperatures. There have been problems reported with the Denso plugs. If you are not using the NGK IZFR6F11 plugs, that could be the source of your problem.

Thank you for the reply.
Check engine light certainly went on for the oxygen sensor for 2 reasons:
1- Honda technicians, before replacing the sensor, connected to the outboard a computer (by an interface) with honda diagnostic system and on the display appeared the history of the failures: only oxygen sensors
2- after the sensor replacement the alarms finish.
The problem is the duration of the oxygen sensor, too variable (18, 34, 40,73, 195 hours) and too short.
The sequence of durations is increasing, it could be a random event or the effect of Honda instructions to the manufacturer to increase the life of the sensor.
This honda oxygen sensor is a mysterious object, I have seen it change 5 times so I have a little experience on the subject.
35655-ZY3-C01 is the honda spare part code, I think honda sells the sensor but doesn't build it.
On the 5 oxygen sensors, which I saw, the manufacturer's code B22690 40203-00 xxxx is printed: the first two groups are present on all the sensors, the third group changes and identifies the single piece
Few build oxygen sensors: NGK / NTK, Denso, Bosch
For the color of the cables (white, white, black, gray) it looks like a NGK / NTK, but looking on the web I did not find an NGK/ NTK equal or similar to 35655-ZY3-C01.
I found a sensor totally the same as 35655-ZY3-C01 on this chinese website :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/35655-ZY3-...957158?hash=item287e516c26:g:h6kAAOSwHS9c70R2
I'm confused: Honda uses Chinese oxygen sensors on the high power outboards?
Could this be the cause of the frequent breakdowns?

That HO2 sensor should not be failing like that. I've got over 2100 hours on my 2007 BF 225 (with the modified exhaust tubes) and the original HO2 sensor is still working fine. Generally an HO2 sensor fails for two reasons - moisture, or excessive carbon build up.

I would look at other possibilities starting with the wiring to the sensor - check the plug for bent/broken/corroded pins, do a resistance test on each of the four wires from the connector to the ECM. Then test the voltage to the heater element inside the sensor. I'm not sure what it should be, but would guess that it should be battery voltage on startup.

Then look at the plugs and coils. Correcting my last post, boats.net specifies the NGK IZFR6K-11E for the 250. Not sure what the difference is compared to the NGK IZFR6F11.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]had the same experience as you. On my boat from 2004 to 2012 I had a BF225 that never gave any HO2 problems, but on my BF 225 was mounted a 35655-ZY3-013 that is very very different from 35655-ZY3-C01 mounted on the bf250.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If I can, I send the pictures to see the difference.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]As you can see[/FONT] the 35655-ZY3-013 has an M18 diameter like almost all oxygen sensors, whereas the 35655-ZY3-C01, which fails very often, has a smaller diameter M 12, unusual.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From the color of the 4 cables (white-white - black-gray) both should be a zirconium dioxide sensor, which needs a larger diameter because inside it must circulate the air to compare with the exhaust gases, so the small diameter M12 of the 35655-ZY3-C01 is very strange and could be a reason for the short duration.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]On my BF250 contacts, plugs, sockets as like new, the spark plugs and the coils are OK, the wires (white-white) of the HO2 that go to the heater are not interrupted and a resistance of about 10 ohms is measured, the motor runs well and it does not lose strokes, but has the same symptoms described by bigfoot3.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The faulty HO2 (I saw 5 of them) are not blackened, they are like the one posted by bigfoot3.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Replacing the HO2 the fault ends, as happened to bigfoot3.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The problem is that after a more or less long time returns, in my engine the HO2 lasted 18, 34, 40,73, 195 hours.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I think this increase in sensor life is not random and that Honda is trying to solve the problem but it still hasn't solved it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In Italy the warranty lasts 2 years, but honda has replaced the sensor under warranty up to 6 years, this means that honda implicitly admits a design defect.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Where I live there are few BF225 and very few BF250, nevertheless I have heard someone pass near me with the intermittent sound of the alarm that I know very well.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For me it would be important to know if somebody has definitively solved the failure of the 35655-ZY3-C01 sensor , or I have to resign myself to pay this tax honda oxygen sensor every year.[/FONT]

ROS - Sounds like you've done all that can be done on your end. Your analysis concerning the zirconium dioxide requiring room for the oxygen ions to circulate and be absorbed through zirconia is right on. However, somewhere I read that the automotive companies were experimenting with alternative ways to sense oxygen ions from combustion. I'm wondering if the small HO2 sensor is a product of that changeover. That's pure speculation on my part. One thing you should know is the HO2 sensors are designed to measure the difference in oxygen in the ambient atmosphere against the oxygen sensed from combustion. That difference varies the voltage fed back to the ECU.

At this point I would try to escalate this issue up the Honda chain-of-command for your region. In the long run Honda can't afford to have users trash their premier engine for bigger boats.

You may be interested in a detailed procedure for testing HO2 sensors that I downloaded from AutoZone here in the US.

http://www.autozone.com/repairinfo/...sHowTo&pageId= 0996b43f80a01215&subtitle=test

Thank you for your interest. I will follow your advice. I will expose this problem in the Honda chain of command for my region ( also outside my region: more noise is made, more easily the deaf hear) I will not easily resign myself to paying the honda's tax oxygen sensor every year.

Just as a matter of interest, what kind of boat is this motor on. I have only had issues with motors sitting too low in the water, otherwise not really a problem anymore?

ROS,

I did some more research on NGK and oxygen sensors. It seems that NGK and Honda have a close working relationship and NGK is at the forefront of developing newer, smaller, and cheaper HO2 sensors. See link below for what they have been doing to improve the sensors and make them smaller. Reading between the lines of that article and reading other articles and notifications, it seems like they have been having some manufacturing issues with the new, smaller sensors.

http://www.ngkntk.co.jp/english/special/story/story07.html

You might want to consider finding the OEM NGK equivalent sensor from an auto parts store, or on line, and try those. They will at least be cheaper if you've got to buy them yourself.

BTW - is your plug to the HO2 sensor a 4-wire or 5-wire?

4 wire, same sensor used on all but the old V6s with the large sensor.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]ang[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The boat is Jeannuau 755 wa . The motor is mounted raised up to the penultimate hole because the prop has non problem of cavitation.
If you can see in the photo it is not [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]low in the water[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif].(really the photo is too small, today the choice small /medium / large does not appear and the system automatically chooses small)

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]chawk[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'll read the article. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Surely honda asked NGK to build newer and cheaper sensor, but cheaper sensors for the honda. In Italy the price of a 35655-ZY3-C01 last year exceeded $ 400.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It is possible the sensor is also mounted on a honda car or motorcycle with a much lower cost. The problem is finding the correspondence between the codes.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The plug has 4 wires as iang said

Here it is late night, I go to sleep. Good night[/FONT]

It is likely that 35655-ZY3-C01 is built by NGK.
NGK builds spark plugs and oxygen sensors, on the spark plugs NGK prints the brand, contrariwise on the sensors does not . Why? Incomprehensible

I have read http://www.ngkntk.co.jp/english/spec...y/story07.html and it is interesting:

1- In order to improve fuel consumption, the sensors have been reduced to halve the power needed to heat the sensors.
2- making the sensors smaller has been a very difficult task, because they become more fragile and more difficult to carry out.
3- the design team had several disputes with the production team because reducing the size of the sensors leads to critical situations and many smaller sensors break
4 One of the major critical points is the rupture due to humidity.

The three developers are certainly excellent technical spe******ts, but lack general vision and they probably don't have an overview of all the variables that affect the system
These people sometimes behave as if they had eyes with partial vision

It is absurd to do a huge job to obtain a heating saving of about 7 W in a motor with 183000 W.
it is even more absurd to decrease reliability of a motor with 184000 W to save about 7 W

In addition, many reduced HO2 break down because of the water: someone should warn Honda that outboards are designed, built and sold to work in the water, so reduced HO2 are not good.