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  1. #1

    Default Paragon won't go into reverse.

    I have a 351 with paragon transmission. It started stalling in reverse but did ok with a little throttle. Today it stopped going in reverse completely. Happened when docking. Luckily it's just me at the boathouse so no audience as I got sideways in the slip. I reved it up to 2k in a desperate attempt to not ram the dock, but it still kept stalling. I looked at the fluid and it's full and not burnt or anything.

    And ideas?

    The bell housings paint is flaking off like it's been hot.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    barnegat NJ
    Posts
    2,706

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Trans cooler?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Yeah it has one..
    Are you saying it may be clogged or something? Could this be a fluid pressure problem?
    Last edited by ashedd; 03-02-2017 at 12:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
    4,597

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    A little clarity please....


    When you shift your trans into reverse it stalls the engine? If this is happening it sounds like you have a broken reverse band or broken planetary that is locking up the transmission.

    If you had a cooler issue the fluid would be burned up.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Yeah it pretty much instantly kills the engine when going to reverse. I was able to get it in reverse if I gunned it at the same time I threw it into reverse. But it wouldn't idle down, if I pulled the throttle back it would die. I confirmed I could turn the prop shaft in both directions when in neutral. Also, usually at idle in neutral the prop shaft will turn a little, now it doesn't do that at all. I also noticed that it took more power in forward while tied to the dock. When I shifted back to neutral the tach shot up to a little over 2000.

    Any chance it's the damper? Seemed like the transmission got a little louder and louder until it stopped working.

    Before the last 10 hrs or so I was able to shift to reverse no problem from about 900 rpm idle, and lately I had to advance it up to 1200 to keep it from stalling in reverse. So it seems like it was getting worse over time and finally gave up.
    Last edited by ashedd; 03-02-2017 at 01:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
    4,597

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Damper plate has noting to do with the function of the internals of the transmission except to turn the input shaft and pump.

    Seems like you have a binding/mechanical issue.

    Stop running the engine and pull the trans and have it repaired before you do some $$$ damage.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Yeah I guess the big question here is weather to try and repair this transmission or replace it with a velvet drive to match the port side.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
    4,597

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
    Yeah I guess the big question here is weather to try and repair this transmission or replace it with a velvet drive to match the port side.
    You already have a Velvet Drive on the other engine?

    Why did you even waste your time and mine?
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    I've not installed any engine/transmission combo into this boat, it came this way.

    It came originally with M-45 Chrysler's, then I believe they put these '74(ish) Palmer 351's with paragons in there(1300 hrs ago). Then something must have happened to the port side Palmer because they put a 2001 Crusader 350, YES 350, in with velvet drive. The Crusader runs great and the oil stays brown, I doubt it has many hrs on it.

    This is why there is a paragon(2:1) on the right and a velvet drive(1.9:1) on the left. So the question for myself is weather to fix the paragon or replace it with a velvet drive in the anticipation of replacing the 351 with another 350 to match the left, but hopefully not soon. Or even perhaps replacing the right palmer with another 351 when the time comes, in which case I would likely keep the paragon.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
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    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    What ever you do, It is cheaper to fix the trans before you break any hard parts.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Ok so I finally got back out to the boat, and promptly fell asleep, which always tends to happen.

    I took trans cooler lines lines off and confirmed it's pumping fluid, and quite hard. I bypassed the cooler altogether. Started it and it did go into reverse, but after about four shifts from fwd neutral reverse it died again. I removed all I could from the top of the transmission but couldn't get the top cover off, the one in which the gear selector goes through. I was going to check the o-ring(s) under there.

    Is is there a trick to getting it off? Should I even bother or should I try to pull the transmission out?

    Any my advice on pulling it out of the boat? I'm working under the floor in the wheel house.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    It's interesting that the shaft no longer turns slowly in neutral while running.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Jersey Shore
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    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
    It's interesting that the shaft no longer turns slowly in neutral while running.
    The shaft turning slowly while in neutral with the engine running is a sign of ballooned disks.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Paragon won't go into reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Docksidemarineservices View Post
    The shaft turning slowly while in neutral with the engine running is a sign of ballooned disks.
    The velvet drive does it too :/
    It'd be nice if I didn't make any headway when in neutral. It's slowest speed now is 5 knots.. put one in neutral and I can do 4 knots, but still moves forward with both in neutral.

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