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Chris061

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Hi All,
Found this forum searching for info on my new to me [used boat].
Recently purchased a 2001 Lund 1700 Fisherman with '01 Honda BF115 A1LA motor and Shoreland trailer.

It needs some TLC, but the price was good. Being it is mid winter here in Wisc, the only motor test I could do
was hook up a set of muffs and water line. So, after visually inspecting motor, [very clean inside the cowling] and checking oil [it looked fresh] I started motor. It ran fine, but no water out pee hole. I let it warm up and till Tstat housing got nice and warm, but no water came out that line either.
Owner called and talked with a local marine mechanic and he suggested that there is an obstruction in pee hole line and or the impeller needs replacing.
He said about $150 to replace it. I decided to buy the boat at a discounted price, based on this info.

I have a local authorized Honda dealer near me and will have him run a motor diagnostic and get report, but am considering doing any work myself
and have ordered a Helm manual for it. I do most of my own mech work, truck, atv and mcycle, so I figure this can not be a difficult repair.

Any recommendations or special tools needed?

I assume the spark plugs are a standard metric socket, right? Just need a long extension.

Thanks,
Chris
 
Chris, Take a length of weed wacker trim cord and ream out the telltale while she's running, Sparkplugs will be SAE standard, Standard Metric ??? Either standard or metric. LoL
 
OK, thanks for tip.

Anyone know the correct method for doing a compression test on these fuel injected motors, do I still need a WOT?
 
Yes, you need to have the throttle at WOT. Remove the safety landyard to cutoff the spark.

The spark plugs take a 5/8" socket.

Compression should be approx 199 -228 psi.

Also make sure that the spark plugs are NGK ZFR7F and only that plug.

Once you get the Service Manual, you should have not trouble changing the impeller....pretty straight forward. Just a heavy lower unit...so a second set of hands may come in handy when you go to put it back on.

Mike
 
Hi Chris,
Welcome aboard.
Most don't like to hear this because of the money but, believe me, you will be doing yourself a hug favor if you replace the impeller using the PUMP KIT rather than just the impeller alone. A new impeller placed in a used housing will wear down rapidly to seat itself into the housing. This results in your never getting the best efficiency from your pump right from the start. But worse is when you put everything back and have inadequate flow due pump leakage caused by warpage or other damage to the housing that is not always easily detectable. Using the kit, which isn't really all that much more money, gives you a pump installation you can rely on for at least a couple of seasons.

File under: CHEAP INSURANCE.
 
jgmo,

Thanks for info, that is a good argument for the kit.

I look forward to getting the manual next wk and getting to know this motor.
Local honda shop informed me that this model year (2001) motor does not have ability to connect with Honda diagnostic software
and the best they could do is a compression and leak down test, kinda bummed about that.
So, would it be still be my benefit to pay them $100 for an hr of shop time, to do those tests?

I did my own cold compression test yesterday with WOT, the engine was turned thru 6 revs for each test.
Results: cyl 1: 155, cyl 2:135, cyl 3: 158, cyl 4: 155.
I ran across a discussion that mentioned compression testing be done at 300 rpm, I was no where near that, so results may be flawed.

I don't have history on the motor, so given that I am of the mind that I should do some extensive maintenace on this motor, so I have a good baseline to start from.
Besides, new plugs, oil & filter, lower unit lube change and fuel filters, what I else should I be looking at?
Belts, tensioner ,etc..

Thanks again for your time and knowledge,
Chris
 
You say no history on engine, Any idea on engine running hours? That could be a baseline on maintenance of belts and pulleys.
 
No, no idea on hours at this point. I will try to get info from previous owner.

I see the shop manual is for the 115/130, so assuming they are basically the same motor.

I see alot of posts on this forum about the 130 motor but not much on the 115.
Is it because the 115 is more reliable or just not as popular ?


Am abit concerned this purchase was not as good a deal, as I thought :(
 
I suspect that the two engines are so close to each other, the price point difference to gain the added 15 horses may have made the 130 a better seller. But, that's just a guess.

You have to assume nothing has been done and go from there.

First, wait for your manual then check valve clearance....they have likely never been checked or adjusted. Adjust any that are out of spec.

Then, re-run the compression test with all plugs out, emergency stop lanyard out, wide open throttle and a helper spinning the engine with the starter.

When you have those results, you can then make a plan as to whether or not more diagnosis is needed.
 
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They are the same engine, except for the throttle body.

The 115 was made available for the boats that are only Coast Guard rated for up to 115 HP.

Mike
 
jgmo,
Got the manual today and went thru procedure to check the valves and then a re-do of compression.
Results: valves, nothing out of spec. I did tweak a couple on the exhaust side so they all matched.
Compression cold test as per manual. (about 55 degrees in the shop). I was able to rig the compression tester so I could see it while turning the key.
The first rev always produced at least 60psi and followed by 3 more revs before reaching peak psi on the gauge.
cyl 1:155 with 2 squirts of oil : 208
cyl 2:125 " : 168
cyl 3:125 " : 150
cyl 4:140 " : 190

I looked thru index of manual and did not see leak down test procedure.
Based on these results what would recommend as next step?
 
Whew! That's pretty much all over the place. The fact that they all show a significant bounce with the oil indicates that there is poor ring seal.
So, I would have to agree with johnnyjgr that you should try an aggressive decarb to see if you can get the numbers up but, more importantly, a bit more even across the board.

If you have a technique that you use, try that. If not, I have my favorite and I'm sure many looking on have decarb methods that they have had success with that they would share.
 
Ok. So now the fun part... decarbing in mid winter?
Anyone have a good method for doing this in a garage or do I wait for warmer weather
and do other maintenance items now ?

The other option would be new rings ?

Would you consider running it as-is thru the season and do repair next fall?
 
Decarbing should be done on the open water with a load on engine, Do not recommend doing the decarb. on ear muffs or in a drum! she needs to be run at WOT
 
The method I use MUST be done outside and in a barrel. It involves forcing the engine to "drink" a solvent through the throttle body. So much raw vapor, in the form of volatile organic compounds, comes out the exhaust that it's possible some folks will think there's a brush fire close by. It's quick, dirty and effective but not necessarily for the faint of heart.

I have also used plain water to do the exact same thing. It works and only produces a huge steam cloud so it's much more eco friendly and won’t peel any huggers away from their trees but it takes quite a bit longer to achieve similar results.
 
Ask 10 people how to decarbonize and you will get 10 different answers. All of which are probably going to get the job done.

Unless you have a super exhaust fan, you are not going to be able to do it in the garage.

It is best if you can run it under load in the water, but I have done it on a muffs. I usually use a concentrated mixture of Yamaha Ring Free in a 3 gallon tank. Drain the vapor separator before you connect the tank. Then you will have less running time. Run the engine until it gets to operating temperature at a little above idle for 10 - 15 min. Then stop and let it sit for an hour or so. Then run it again....up to operating temperature and run it at a much higher idle to help blow the loosened carbon out. Then go back to the lower speed and let it run 10 -15 minutes again, then stop and repeat the process three or four times.

Sometimes I will check the compression half way through to see if it is improving....just to make me more optimistic.

Before you do all that, there are a couple of other things that you should check.

Since you checked the valve clearances, you have seen the timing marks. Make sure they all align properly. There is a very small divot in the crankshaft pulley to align the crankshaft pulley.

Definitely do a leakdown test. The #2 and 3 cylinders give me some concern. Did the plugs look different from the others? Corroded, rusted?

This vintage of 130 has had some issues with cracks in the head, allowing water into the #2 and/or #3 cylinders. It could also damage the exhaust valves and if left to continue, can damage the cylinders.

The leakage of those cylinders will be 30 - 100% leakage and there could be leakage to adjacent cylinders.

It might just turn out to be only a carbon issue, so this is just something to keep in mind while doing you testing/servicing.

Mike
 
Mike,
de-carb.. yes I read thru quite a few thread last night, many methods that's for sure.

valve check was exactly as depicted in manual with tdc mark for each cyl and a tdc mark on the housing, I made sure they all aligned when checking, plus watched the valve train as I turned the crankshaft to confirm that rockers were loose before checking.
Plugs... all looked good, nice tan color, only issue is they are not ngk, so will be installing a new set and changing oil & filter soon.
When that step is done, I will schedule a time with local honda marine shop to have them do an eval of motor and see if my results are flawed
and will post results when done. I am crossing my fingers that it just needs a few decarb sessions.

I think when I have results I will post another a new thread, so topic is more in keeping with the discussion.

Parts question.. when looking up parts I see they sometimes get superceded.
The water pump service kit I found is 01693-zw5-020, old was -030. However, parts page does not show that it fits a 2001 bf115a1la.
So is this service correct?
Chris
 
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Mike,

Thanks for clarifying that part #.

So, I was able to get the motor checked at honda shop this afternoon.
After talking with mechanic, I opted for a simple cold test of compression and leak down.

Here are the results:
Cyl 1 : 192 / 25%
cyl 2: 162 / 70%
cyl 3: 165 / 45%
cyl 4: 190 / 25%

Mechanic suggested a thorough de-carbing as well and then a retest.

Chris
 
Mike,
I did more research and came across the discussion about the cracked head issue, discussion included some pics.
Called Honda and had tech guy check my serial # against their records for authorized work, but no records showed up.

I am bit more concerned now, to that end I've ordered my own leak down kit and a usb borescope cam to have a look inside,
found an interesting diy by an aircraft mechanic to modify the scope to look at valves,etc...
I'll start with pulling the lower unit off to inspect the water pump/impeller and then do another leak down test on 2/3 and have a close listen with
stethescope to attempt to pin point area of leakage.

I checked for replacement head at honda parts and iboat and all they showed was part obsolet.
If.....I do need to replace the head, is there a new part # for a replacement that beefed up the exhaust side?
 
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