BF90 hard to shift into reverse

have a '98 BF90 on a '96 Javelin 379SE.
The shifter cable is a Teleflex CC21010.
It is hard at times to shift into both forward and reverse, but mostly reverse.
Was planning on replacing the shifter cable, but before I did that I removed the cable from the motor, and it shifts forward and backwards very easily. Is there a proper way to manually shift the motor and see where the drag may be? Could it just be the linkage, or is there possibly a bigger problem down low?

Thanks,

Bardcard

Sounds like the cable itself or the control box is binding,disconnect cable from control box next to figure it out. Make sure idle speed is correct for proper shifting Use a positive throw when shifting,No slow mo!!

I guess I need to clarify. When I removed the cable from the motor, the cable moved freely forward and reverse. I'm wanting to ask about checking the motor linkage and see if all is right there.

Got it, Shift rod is probably stiff from upper linkage down to lower unit, Wait for hondadude he's the honda expert around here. not sure on honda's but on evinrude and johnson lower unit must be dropped,shift rod loosened up and lubed

Is the motor running while you are shifting ?

It was not yesterday while I was looking at it. But it is normally tight, that is why I started looking into the problem.

Cables normally fail at the bends where the inner wire wears through the inner plastic sheath and starts to bind on the steel casing. When you take the load off one end the cable can move freely as there is no load to create the binding effect. At this stage I wouldn't automatically assume that the cable is good just because it moves freely when disconnected.
Possible other causes -
- Water in gear box. Can change the oil or drain a little and top up to check.
- Shift linkage binding inside pivot tube
- Shift linkage bent or damaged
- Remotes need servicing

I had a similar problem with my 98 BF90. Difficult to shift forward or reverse. I removed the cables at the motor. Cables operated fine. Manually shifting at the motor was fine. I took a gamble and replaced the original cables and problem was cured. Thats my story.

I agree with everything said above.

First a couple of questions....

Is this a new boat to you, or is this the first that you are having trouble?
Is this boat used in salt water?

The cable that you have is a Mariner cable. That indicates that the shifter that you are using is most likely a Mercury shifter. So, that boat may have had a Mercury on it at some time or it could have been rigged originally with the Mercury shift (possibly Commander 3000)

That arrangement is conducive to having shifting problems.

That being said...if it has been ok up to this point, you can disconnect the shift cable at the engine and manually shift it by pushing the shift linkage (toward the bow for forward and to the rear for reverse). Be sure to turn the propeller by hand at the same time so that the clutch dog and gears do not get jammed together in the wrong spot.

That vintage 90 will need a little force to shift by hand. Pay attention to the play in mechanism #12 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/1998/BF90AW LRTA/SHIFT SHAFT/parts.html

That tends to get rear worn over time.

If you are in salt water, it is possible that #'s 4 and 8 (shift shaft A and B), could be getting hard to pivot. The only way to tell for sure is to remove the lower unit and then operate the upper part by hand. If that is the problem, then you have to remove the powerhead to get to them.

One important part of shifting on this vintage is also proper adjustment.Shift arm #5 should always return to the detent with moving from forward or reverse to neutral. Initial adjustment should be with all in neutral and the arm in the detent, then turn the small brass fitting (on the end of the shift cable) one turn away from the small locknut on the cable. With the system being that old, you may have to play with it a lot, putting it into forward and bringing it back to neutral and doing the same in reverse. It should always return to the detent. So you will have to turn the brass piece back and forth until you get a good result. Doing so, you are making up for any excess play that there may be in the shifter, cable, or linkages.

Also, make sure that you are shifting when the motor is at its lowest idle rpm. Idle in neutral should be 950 plus/minus 50 rpm.

By the way....in case you did not know....the lower unit is a Mercury lower unit.

Mike

I boat have had the boat 5-6 years.
I am in KY, and believe the boat has been here most of its life, bot not sure if it has ever been in salt water.
It has been tight at times, but I do a lot of winter fishing, and it seems tighter in the cold weather.
I noticed the cable was listed as a pre '93 Mariner cable. The shifter is a Honda shifter, so I don't know if they just put the front plate on a Mariner shifter, or retrofitted the cable to the Honda shifter.
I will look at the linkage you have mentioned tomorrow when I can get back out to it. I do have the Honda shop manual for this motor, and have been looking through it.

I did not know this was a Merc lower unit.
I have not had the lower unit off before, but have had an older Johnson lower unit off. I believe I can do it with the manual.

Thanks Mike for your input. By the way, my daughter is now living in Florence KY, not too far from you.

Bardcard

This is the Honda Control currently on my boat. Would the above cable work with this Shift Control, or were the old Mariner controls left on the inside? When I search this P/N on the web, I do come up with the Commander 3000 Shift Control.
So I am confused. Is this a Honda Shift Control, or a Merc Shift control?

Thanks,

Bardcard

The control is actually a Mercury Commander series control that Honda put their name on and sold for a few years. They are set up to only take a Mercury fitting at the end of the cable. The Mariner cable was the only one that worked at that time. I do remember that we had to add threads to the end of the cable for it to fit properly....or use an adapter on the end of a 3300 cable.

You could also use a 3300 cable (that Honda uses for all of their engines) with a Mercury adapter at the control box end. https://www.amazon.com/Teleflex-301074-CONTROL-ADAPTER-MERCURY/dp/B0000AZ6LW
Notice the price of the adapter.....they are proud of that little bugger.

By the way, there was a Product Safety Recall on the early versions of that shifter. If yours is a 1998, it is probably ok, but since you are looking at everything, the later versions would have a sticker on the control box (of course...behind the panel) with the letters RKFW. If it does not have the letters, then it would be included in the recall. http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/marine/pdf/recalls/controller.doc-b.pdf
Mercury had the same recall....since it was their shifter.

How is that for an answer to a simple question?

Mike

Now some stupid questions!!

I have had the front covers off of the shifter, and there are 4 screws screwed into the side of the boat. I have taken out the 4 screws, but have not been able to get the assembly through the hole to access the shifter cable.
Should this assembly come through the side of the boat to access the cable, or do I need to take another plate off? All of the diagrams I find online for the shifter show the external assembly, but not the assembly where the cables actually attach. Do you know a P/N for the internal assembly?

My boat has a hot foot, but the throttle cable is still on the shifter end, and just laying in the battery compartment.
If and when I do get to the cables, should I disconnect the throttle cable from the shifter and remove it?

Yes, they are very proud of the adapter you referenced. Would it be okay to replace the shifter cable with the same as what is currently there?

Thanks Mike for your time and knowledge.

Bardcard / Kenny

You have to remove the handle. It is held on with a bolt that is located under the "throttle only" button.

To remove the button without breaking it, you push the button in and advance the throttle handle to put it in throttle only. Then use a small screwdriver to pop the button out. If you do not put it into throttle only mode, then the button will break when you try to get it out.

The shifter you have is called a Commander 3000 Panel Mount. I did a quick search on Youtube but did not see a video doing this.

Disconnecting the throttle cable is up to you. The advantage to leaving it is that it would be there if something happened to your hot foot. The disadvantage would be if it is laying in the bilge and gets water in it or gets corroded, or lodges against something, it could interfere with the shifting.

If you can find another Mariner cable, it would probably make things a lot easier.

Mike

Mike, I am confused by your term "throttle only". Both the button and position.
Can you explain a little further.
BTW, the 21010 cable is available, and I have one on order.
Thanks,

Kenny

Sorry for the confusion. I overlooked that you never need to put the shifter in throttle only, since you have a hot foot.

At the base of the shifter arm is a button. I don't think it is round, but kind of an odd shape. Without a hot foot, you push this button in (while jiggling the shifter handle) and then push the shifter handle forward (like putting it into gear). Except, if you keep holding that button in while you move the shifter, the "shift" does not engage and that allows you to advance the throttle without putting it into gear.

So, to remove that button, you have to hold the button in and advance the shifter into forward or further. Then pry the button out with a couple of small screwdrivers.

I hope that makes more sense.

Mike

That makes sence. I thought thats what you meant, but wanted to make sure.

Thanks,

Kenny

I have a home tiling job I am getting into starting tomorrow, but will probably be back with more questions next week after I get the shift cable in.

Thanks for all of the various input.

Kenny