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BF225 Question

C

Cmerc

Contributing Member
As some may recall I gave been having issues on and of with one engine so heres my question as best as I can explain and ask it.

At 3300 rpm it sounds an alarm, starts to act like its missing, and slows down, it will do this whether it is attempting to get on plane, so with a load on it, or id I rev it in netural with no load on it.

I checked for DTC's and had a #25, I reset it and no more error code, but the issue still remains.

Heres my question, what happens at 3300 rpm? Is there some change in the cpu's programming? Does it switch from one set of parameters to another? Not use a particular sensor until above 3300 rpm like a knock sensor? Anyone have any thoughts?
 
Sounds like your engine is going into limp mode,which is controlled byCPU, Engine is running on half the cylinders to try and prevent further damage. Is engine overheating,running lean, Possible bad temp. sensor, bad VRO
 
We have tried a new cpu, new O2 sensor, engine was serviced about 5 months ago new thermostats, new water temp sensors, all engine filters changed.

I did get a DTC25, did a reset, it did not fix the problem, but a recheck showed no more codes.
 
Have you checked for voltage levels? Maybe a bad alternator and the voltage goes low at those rpms or over? Then check fuel pressures. HP filters are a common cause of poor running at higher rpms.
 
When it sounds the alarm, what are your warning lights doing? Any on? Any off?

The 25 is a disconnected or bad ECT3....or associated wiring. If you are getting an overheat, that may be a good place to check. It is located on the port side exhaust manifold.

If it is doing the same thing, including an audible alarm, in neutral, then you might want to check the neutral safety switch. If the switch is faulty, it could constantly be telling the ECU that you are still in neutral (even if you are in gear) and cause the engine to react like you describe. I can not say that I have ever heard an audible alarm, if the engine is run above 3300 in neutral.

Mike
 
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To answer you initial question, the VTEC kicks in at 4600 rpm +/-. The Intake Air Bypass will kick in at 3950 rpm +/-. Low oil pressure will drop rpm's to 1800 and will stay there. Overheat will drop rpm's to 1800 for 20 seconds and if overheat is still there, shut down the engine.

Many times when you get a constant audible alarm, which signals a problem with the programmed fuel injection, but you get no codes, it's a fuel flow problem.

First, I would recheck the HP fuel filter, even though it was recently changed. It's the source of many performance problems with the 225's.

Have you drained the VST? If you don't know how, send me an e-mail at [email protected].

Two other possibilities, but it takes some mechanical ability to get to them:

1. There is a screen in the bottom of the fuel pump holder that can get clogged. See part 29 at:
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2007 and%2 0Later /BF225AK0%20XA/VAPOR%20SEPARATOR%20ASSY/parts.html

2. There is the fuel pump regulator filter and screen - parts 7 & 8 in:
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2007 and Later/BF225AK0 XA/PIPING/parts.html
 
Chawk, you are detailed as usual, thanks.
After reading your first paragraph, none of those scenerios fit whats happening.

The VST tank was drained.
As too lights on the key panel, none come on, but the green oil light goes off!

My belief is that its a dirty/corroded connection most likely in The back of the engine where the the fuel pump is located, about 9 months ago one of the waret lines back there burst and flooded the area.

Yesterday on a whim I went out and started the engine and before it could reach opperating temp, I increased rpm slowly up to 4200, several times, no issue, that makes me wonder if its heat soak on a bad connection.

I am going to take her out later today. Gonna go out on two engines, and start the "bad" one when I am gonna try and get on plane, before she gets heated up, I suspect there wont be an issue, I will post the results.

I have discussed all this with my mechanic and the plan is to take the boat to his shop so he can do a through trouble shoot!
 
CHawk, well the immediate issue/problem may actually not be the original one from several months back

so I took the boat out a few hours ago, went out of the canal on two engines, when I got clear of the canal, started the problem engine, and afvancwd throttles to get on plane, no alarms, no problems, ran for about a mile or so, and turned back toward home, intending to slow down and try again to test for potential heat soak.
while i the turn, bam, alarm went off but I noticed the over heat light was on, and no water out the pee hole, shut down checked exhaust manifold temp with IR heat gun, 194 and 197.
Tilted engine and checked for weed etc, nothing!
Came back to the dock, attached garden hose to the flush port, a smll ammount of water came out the pee hole, checked exhaust manifold temps and they both dropped to below 140* quickly, bot one side did take about 30 seconds longer.
with the hose attached to the flush port, I started the wngine and increased To 4200 rpm no issue.
It would appear THIS issue is the water pump, which was just changed 6 months ago.
I have changed my O2 sensors since the engines were serviced, and the one gor this particular engine really looked like crap, perhaps the O2 sensor was the original issue, and because the water pump was apparently failing it looked to be the same problem.
in any event, the overheating is the first thing that needs to be solved!
 
Sometimes I wish I had zero mechanical skills, seems people who are ignorant of these kind of things seem to get more pleasure out of their boats!

Although sometimes they wind up dead or killing someone else!
 
Not sure if I understood you right, but starting the engine with the hose on the flush port will normally kill your water pump as it is running dry.
 
Really, interesting considering the lower unit was IN THE WATER, therefore, IF the waterpump was working it would not be an issue.
 
Well, yes, certainly change out the water pump and carefully inspect the old impeller and other parts. Make sure none of the vanes are missing. However, as I stated before, theoretically an overheat will drop rpm's to 1800 for 20 seconds and if overheat is still there, shut down the engine. And I don't think the overheat alarm kicks in until about 200 F, but not totally sure of that.

Only a small amount of water comes out of the indicator when a garden hose is hooked to the flush port. That's normal.

You should NOT EVER run the engine while using the flush port. That will definitely mess up your water pump.

What's really troubling is that you said that the green oil pressure light went out when you got the alarm. Not good at all. It may be that the overheated engine thinned out the oil to the point that it did not have enough pressure, but that is something you need to look at very closely. BTW - many folks around these parts switch over to 25W-40 oil after the engine is out of warranty. It tends to keep internals better lubricated once they are worn a bit.

Try to solve the overheat problem first, but I suspect that you have another problem with that engine. If the overheat problem also solves the green oil pressure light going out, then you are back to a fuel flow problem.
 
CHawk, note the engine was trimmed down so the waterpump, if it was working would have been pumping, I am not worried about that.
As well the oil light did not go out today, that was happening when I was first having the issue months ago, and before I changed the O2 sensor, the oil is fine level wise, and near as can tell its fine no burnt smell or apparent thinning out.

Note, when I first had the issue on friday the water out of the pee hole was about 1/3 of normal volume, today, when he Alarm went off, the overheat light was on, and there was NO water coming out the pee hole, my point is saying there was some water coming out when I had the hose hooked to the flush port, was that it was obviously not plugged, at least not fully, thats why I think the impeller or some other issue with the wate pump is this Immediate issue!

as to your explanation of how the engine management works when there is an over heat, as soon as the alarm sounded, I pulled back to idle, looked at the panel, saw the water temp lite, and shut down, Probably less than 10 seconds
 
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Roger that. Change out the water pump. Not just the impeller, but the whole thing. The cost is not that much more and the time to do it is about the same.
 
I will double check, but I am pretty sure tht was done at the last service, I could be wayyy wrong, but its my bet that the 5 year old, still in the package impeller they put in is the issue.
I am off the island until next Tuesday, so it will not be done before then, but I will let ya know.

BTW are you a marine mechanic by trade, or just by interest?
 
Cmerc said:
Really, interesting considering the lower unit was IN THE WATER, therefore, IF the waterpump was working it would not be an issue.
Click to expand...
Sarcasm is a really good way to endear yourself to people who are trying to be helpful. First you say that your newly replaced water pump may be faulty, then you say you are running the engine on the flush fitting. The logical question is therefore whether you had done this before and damaged the new water pump in this way as many people have. Not everyone understood that you had the lower units in the water at the time. Good luck with your fix.
 
Let's cut it out - we're all here to help folks. Some folks provide more detailed answers then others. Let it go.

Cmerc - to answer your question, I'm just the owner of a BF 225. When I bought that really expensive engine in 2008, I decided I was going to learn as much about it as I could so I could pull my own maintenance and do repairs. I received some very good advice to purchase the official Helm shop manual, which I did. I grew up working in my Dad's garage. But no formal training on engines.
 
I also took your advice sometime ago and got the manual, I got the on line version which in retrospect is not as easy to use IMHO.
your mechanical knowledge is very obvious, and obviously based on real world experience and understanding thats why I asked, thanks for the many times you have responded to me and others its appreciated.
 
Thanks, Cmerc. I've been the grateful beneficiary of help and advice from many folks on this forum. I stumbled onto this forum in 2009 or 2010 and have hung out here ever since. Almost everyone who participates has been most helpful to me and others. I just try to pass on what I have learned.
 
Ok, its been a while finding the issue, but here it is, ununfortunatly the water pump was fine, as was the water tube. There is massive corrosion on the Mount Case, and the powerhead is not getting sufficent water to keep it cool.
Unfortunatly the center engine also has corossion issues, they are 13 years old and I am the second owner, looks like a repower is on the way.
 
Sorry to hear that. Pricey proposition. You might want to consider higher horsepower dual engines instead of the triple set up.
 
Imam waiting on a quote for Tripple Honda 250s and expecting them to come in in the $17K range each, complete harness gauges everything,for some reason engines are cheaper here than in the states and have been quoted $4k for installation.

Also I wont have to deal with the issue of filling gauge holes in my console.

fingers crossed!
 
Roger that. If I were in your shoes, I would consider having someone part out the old engines, list the good parts on eBay and split the income with the guy who parts them out. The engine covers alone are worth between $500 to $1,000 each if in good shape. Ditto for the lower cowlings. Other pricey parts are the heads, , lower units, ECU's, VST's, throttle bodies, and a bunch of other things. If done right you could probably offset the cost of the new engines by at least $10,000 and likely a lot more.
 
Thats an interesting thought, although it would be more difficult from the Bahamas, but worth thinking about, thanks!
 
A Honda 250 for 17k? What?!! Where?

I've never heard of such massive corrosion on the mount case, not that I'm an expert. It's just that it seems like if the motors were mounted high, like they should be, and were flushed after every use, this wouldn't happen.

I've just put an awful lot of work and money into a pair of 04's, and stories like this scare the bajeezas out of me.
 
Bare in mind that they are 2003 engines, and I am the second owner so I really no idea how they were maintained for their first 8 years.
I have decided to repower with new Tripp Honda 250s, and I can assure you that they will be flushed and maintained properly.
 
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