2004 150 HPDI will not addvance over 30K

No sooner I get one problem I have another.

Advancing the throttle in gear to full throttle all I get is a max of 3000 rpm.
If I advance the throttle out of gear it shuts down.

I Checked battery and all connections checked ok. Also checked to see if I had ignition at each cly. all checks ok.
It's like when advanced out of gear it's hitting a kill switch some where.
Is that possiable ?
Where to from here ,
Thanks

Check all plugs are clean and if not, clean them up.

Check 2-stroke oil level in the oil tank. Low oil will cause the rev limiter to kick in as will a failure in the oil level sensor.

Sounds like a fuel flow issue to me...

Will pumping the fuel bulb allow the engine to rev higher when in gear and under load? If so, you prob have leaks in the fuel lines (sucking air) or a low pressure fuel pump going bad. Check and tighten all connections and fittings and check diaphrams in the LP fuel pumps for any holes, tears, etc.

Pumping fuel via the bulb can also sometimes reveal clogged filters but not always (won't reveal a clogged micro filter screen in the VST tank on the high pressure fuel pump which is THE #1 CAUSE OF MANY problems including yours. If you are running ethanol blended gas sold at 99% of regular gas stations that is prob your problem). You can try to clean that little filter blasting carb cleaner through it but if I'm going to wrench my way in there to get to it I always have a new one on hand and just replace it and save the old one for another time. It can look clean but if you can't see your finger pretty clearly through it is prob clogged. If you're going to replace the VST filter REPLACE THE LITTLE FUEL FILTER IN THE CLEAR BOWL UNDER THE COWLING AT THE SAME TIME. That little yellow filter if not replaced regularily can start to shed tiny fibers that end up clogging the VST filter.

Lastly, check neutral safety switch in the throttle assy which is probably not the problem but if the engine "thinks" it is in neutral it won't allow it to run past about 2,500 RPM in gear or, as you've learned, in neutral. You'll never get it to rev higher than the 2500- 3000 RPM you mentioned while in neutral and advancing further can stall the engine as the carbs open wider and the fuel air mix becomes too lean to combust.

When you get up and running again... Never run 10% ethanol blended gas in it again if you have a marina or a station close to you that sells 100% non-ethanol gas. I gladly pay the premium for 100% gas and add Marine Green Sta-bil fuel stabilizer (not the red that contains ethanol) with every fill-up - not just prior to storage. For the few extra bucks 100% gas costs and Marine Sta-bil costs I now enjoy my boat instead of wrenching on my engine all the time.

Actually the shift switch is on the engine. The neutral safety switch is in the control box.

If the ecm does not see the engine started in neutral and shifted into gear while the engine is running it will limit the rpms to around 3000.

Thanks deepsea21 for all the info . I checked the fuel bulb and replaced the main filters like you said but no help..Thinking about how it cuts out ( shuts down ) when I advance out of gear made me think it was something else. So I looked more into the shift position switch. Also thanks Chris for the heads up where it was. To make a long story short I went ahead and changed it . It now starts up and when advanced the throttle out of gear it does not shut down. Haven't checked it out on open water yet but I'm sure it will check out. Yea I know we all heard that before . I will post how it will check out tomorrow ,going off shore for some tuna.

Strange because if you advance the throttle while not in gear it should be limited to 2500-3000 RPM's and no higher. Will be interested to hear how it runs as I'm still thinking it could be or was a fuel flow issue that maybe you fixed changing the filters. Did you change that micro screen filter on the High Pressure Fuel Pump inside the VST tank when you changed all others?

Be sure to call for a radio check before you head offshore for Tuna! I can't believe how seldom I hear calls for a radio checks which should be performed EVERY TIME one is heading a ways from shore. Nothing like finding yourself in trouble, out of cell phone range and then finding out the radio isn't sending/receiving or both. Also, purchase the unlimited towing insurance through Boat U.S. / Towboat U.S. if you have one serving your area and you are heading out on your own. Best $99 you can spend per year. The time you need a tow and your 20 miles out it's not fun to get a bill @ $350-$400/hr from the time the tow leaves its dock until it gets you back to the dock (at tow speed)... You can easily spend 20+ years worth of towing insurance on one tow... It ain't like towing a car to a service center!

Had to cancel today trip due to weather .But took the boat out for a test run and good thing I canceled the fishing trip.
Now here's what I got.
Advancing the throttle out of gear it goes to 3000 RPM ,no problem there.
IN gear I get a slight vibration and could only advance to 1600 rpms .
I tried pumping the fuel ball with no increase of rpms.
The only filter I changed was the main filter, nothing on the engine.
What you said about low oil in the tank maybe I should look at also because in the past I had a problem and it was a broken at the pin in the connection on the tank. But than the warning horn sounded when it got low oil on the engine tank. I'm not getting a horn now .
I have twin engines ,is there anything I could swap form on to the other ?
Hate the thought of getting into the VST tank , looks like it would take awhile.
Tanks for any help you may offer;
Bob

Deepsea21, I'm in the process of ordering all the filters . But I'm confused on what you said in the above .
First is there more than one filter in the VST tank.
Also I cannot find the part or part number of the high press pump filter you mentioned . Is it in the pressure pump and not shown ?
I changed the plugs just incase and swapped the oil sending unit on the engine tank with the other engine . No help with either.
Now I'm getting up to 1800 RPM .
So I guess I'm down to the filters and have to change them all.

Bob

flabob1 said:

Had to cancel today trip due to weather .But took the boat out for a test run and good thing I canceled the fishing trip.
Now here's what I got.
Advancing the throttle out of gear it goes to 3000 RPM ,no problem there.
IN gear I get a slight vibration and could only advance to 1600 rpms .
I tried pumping the fuel ball with no increase of rpms.
The only filter I changed was the main filter, nothing on the engine.
What you said about low oil in the tank maybe I should look at also because in the past I had a problem and it was a broken at the pin in the connection on the tank. But than the warning horn sounded when it got low oil on the engine tank. I'm not getting a horn now .
I have twin engines ,is there anything I could swap form on to the other ?
Hate the thought of getting into the VST tank , looks like it would take awhile.
Tanks for any help you may offer;
Bob

Click to expand...

My apologies Bob...

I just did some brief research on that engine and there is no VST "tank". I thought it was a fuel injected 4-stroke but it's that damned complex HIGH PRESSURE DIRECT INJECTION 2 stroke (HPDI) system. I did find a video that shows 2 mystery micro filters and it is ALOT of wrenching to get to them. When you see the size of them they may as well be no bigger than a micro filter in a fuel injector! Here's the link... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeGG84jMPkA

Here's a link to a 200 HPDI that is probably quite similar and addresses some other "ghost" filters that are probably on your engine even though it's a 200 and not a 150. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp2TnOfsgqE

The engine will achieve high RPM's very easily in neutral because there is no load on it and it takes minimal fuel to rev it. Now that you are only reaching 1600 RPM under load I think the fuel flow is becoming further restricted somewhere. Under load for an outboard to reach 3000 RPM it is REALLY SUCKING FUEL compared to reaching it in neutral... just like stepping on the gas in your car in neutral vs: in gear climbing a hill.

This may be a case where we all have to suck it up and take it to a Yahama Mafia service center as that is one heck of alot of wrenching and screwing around. First time I wrenched my way into my F115 which has a "VST" tank burried so deep in the engine it wasn't funny... I kept a 5 gallon bucket by and put nut bolt, hose and piece in it in the event I coudn't get it back together or had something left over. I'd love to find the yamaha engineer who placed that tank so deep in that engine and ram that micro screen up his ass.

Anyway, the yamaha techs have to make $ too (sometimes) for what it's worth unless anyone else here has any other suggestions. It's not like you can limp around for several hours with that engine hooked up to a separate 6-gal tank with a 3x or 4x high dose of Seafoam in it to see if it can clean it out and, even if it did, it may just clean enough that it runs well and leaves another possible clog just down the road when you're offshore. Not worth it in my opinion.

Wow man ,do you have some bad weed ?
I have two Yamaha 150 HPDI and they boat have a VST tank on it. Almost out in the open on the left forward side of the engine. The parts brake down shows a filter at the bottom of a pump.
I'm going to change the filter but just wanted to know is there any other filters in there while I'll have it open .

Thanks for the info on the mystery filters .They look like they are buried and I'll save them for last and then turn it over to Yamaha Mafia if I need to.
This is cutting in on my fishing time but I got to get it done.
Thanks again for the help
I'll post my results in a week I guess.
Bo

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flabob1 said:

Wow man ,do you have some bad weed ?
I have two Yamaha 150 HPDI and they boat have a VST tank on it. Almost out in the open on the left forward side of the engine. The parts brake down shows a filter at the bottom of a pump.
I'm going to change the filter but just wanted to know is there any other filters in there while I'll have it open .

Thanks for the info on the mystery filters .They look like they are buried and I'll save them for last and then turn it over to Yamaha Mafia if I need to.
This is cutting in on my fishing time but I got to get it done.
Thanks again for the help
I'll post my results in a week I guess.
Bo

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Click to expand...

It's a simple job,.


You have the screen on the bottom of the fuel pump in the VST and the High Pressure filter between the VST and the High Pressure pump. Don't worry about the small screens in the HPDI pump.

You will need to get the new seal for the top of the VST tank cover. You will not be able to reuse yours. Do not use worm screw clamps, replace the otiker clamps with the same.

Got everything on order,
thanks for the info Chris;

Bob

flabob1 said:

Wow man ,do you have some bad weed ?
I have two Yamaha 150 HPDI and they boat have a VST tank on it. Almost out in the open on the left forward side of the engine. The parts brake down shows a filter at the bottom of a pump.
I'm going to change the filter but just wanted to know is there any other filters in there while I'll have it open .

Thanks for the info on the mystery filters .They look like they are buried and I'll save them for last and then turn it over to Yamaha Mafia if I need to.
This is cutting in on my fishing time but I got to get it done.
Thanks again for the help
I'll post my results in a week I guess.
Bo

.

Click to expand...

Nope... REEEEAAALLLLLYYYYY Good! Must have been looking at the wrong engine. VST tank on my F115 is burried way DEEP in the engine. Yes, that filter on the bottom of the HP fuel pump is the one I'm talking about. Glad to hear yours is easy to access. 90% sure you change ot and problem will be solved.

Finely got all the parts and changed the Main water separator , the VSI filter and the filter in the fuel bowl. Also changed the fuel line from the tank and swapped the pump ball.
Started up and still have the same problem.
In gear could only advance to 16/1700 rpsm.
Out of gear 3000 to 3500 rpms

I'm thinking to swapping the $80.00 filter sitting on top of the engine going to the VSI. To hot today , it's Fl.
Is it possiable that it's not the problem of getting fuel but something is controlling the amount of fuel ?
Like when you get a over heat warning or low oil you are restricted to a lower RPM's
I don't get any warning horn at any time.
I'm about ready to call the man with the computer.
Any suggestions ?

Bob

Finely got all the parts and changed the Main water separator , the VSI filter and the filter in the fuel bowl. Also changed the fuel line from the tank and swapped the pump ball.
Started up and still have the same problem.
In gear could only advance to 16/1700 rpsm.
Out of gear 3000 to 3500 rpms

I'm thinking to swapping the $80.00 filter sitting on top of the engine going to the VSI. To hot today , it's Fl.
Is it possiable that it's not the problem of getting fuel but something is controlling the amount of fuel ?
Like when you get a over heat warning or low oil you are restricted to a lower RPM's
I don't get any warning horn at any time.
I'm about ready to call the man with the computer.
Any suggestions ?

Bob

Docksidemarineservices said:

Actually the shift switch is on the engine. The neutral safety switch is in the control box.

If the ecm does not see the engine started in neutral and shifted into gear while the engine is running it will limit the rpms to around 3000.

Click to expand...

This is where you should be looking.




Change the $80 filter,

Chris;
I swapped the $80.00 filter with the other engine and it's the same . Only 1600 rpms at full throttle.
Please don't tell me it's the little filters filters in the HP pump.
The filter in the VSI was stained with very fine dirt on part of it not all of it. The bottom part of the unit ( bowl) had no dirt , very clean.
I got a mechanic with a computer coming Tuesday . Hopefully we will find something .
Thanks ;

Bob

Docksidemarineservices said:

Actually the shift switch is on the engine. The neutral safety switch is in the control box.

If the ecm does not see the engine started in neutral and shifted into gear while the engine is running it will limit the rpms to around 3000 or less.

Click to expand...

Again, This is where you should be looking.

Here's the latest ;

Checked the shift switch and it checked good.
The only thing left was the High pressure pump which cost $500 to have rebuilt.
Had a mechanic put the test computer on it and thank god the pump checks Ok at 600 psi.
He suggested that it's possiable the vacuum pumps might be at fault . They do not show up on the computer .
So we changed the two vacuum pumps . Took it for a test run and checked out Good. zero to 4400 rpms with no hesitation at all.
Well at lease I now have all new filters .
Thank to all you guys that helped me along with this.
I'm sure I'll be back with something new in the furture.

Are you talking about the mechanical low pressure fuel pumps?

Yep That's them. Bolted to the block and works on vacuum .
Not to bad to get at just had to undue the VSI tank again.