Honda bf40a won't restart after been turned off during use

Today again my bf40a didn't want to start after shutting it down during use (to get a skier aboard safely). The starter doesn't rotate...nothing at all when turning the key. No lights at the console. Cooling water during running ok.
After some time appr. 15 mins (cooled down?) it started again normally... Could it be a heat sensor or should I look for a wiring problem?
Does some of you spe******ts have a clue?
many thanks in advance.

It could be a wiring issue, but the first thing I would look at is the position of the shifter.

I have received calls like this, with the customer still in the middle of the lake in the boat.

The first thing I do is ask them to make sure the motor is in neutral. On occasions, they have just left the shifter in gear....and the starter will not crank when the motor is in gear.

This is probably not the case for you...but could be related.

If the shift cable is slightly out of adjustment at the motor, it is possible when you pull the shifter back into neutral, the engine gearcase may go into neutral but the cam for the neutral safety switch (on the engine) is not centered on the neutral safety switch (that is located in the lower casing in front of the powerhead). See #15 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...F40AY LRTA/ENGINE COVER LOWER CASE/parts.html

If it does not center correctly and operate the switch, the engine will not crank....the engine thinks it is still in gear.

If you have not got the motor going yet....turn the key switch to start and hold it there. Then take the shifter and slowly move it back and forth around neutral position to forward and then to reverse. If things are a little out of adjustment, the engine will start cranking, probably when the shifter is slightly going into one of the gears. Sometimes just jiggling the shifter handle back and forth a little, gets it going.

If that is the case, then you just have to readjust the connector at the end of the shift cable while everything is in neutral so the neutral safety switch is fully depressed when in neutral.

Of course, it is possible that your neutral safety switch broke or failed. If you suspect that, most of the 40a models have two wires that come from the safety switch to a two pin connector. If you unplug that connector and put a jumper between the two contacts on the connector going to the motor wiring harness, the engine will crank....if the neutral safety switch is faulty.

There is also other possibilities of wiring issues.....14 pin round connector (pins pushed in, broken or corroded) or anywhere in the main wiring harness to the helm....including a bad key switch.

I would start with the simple things first.

Good luck.

Mike

And speaking of simple things.....take the time to remove and clean your battery cable ends AND battery posts. Then, go to the starter, BEFORE reconnecting the battery cables, and take off and clean the big cable end and the stud on the starter.

Then, follow the NEGATIVE cable from the battery to it's other end. Disconnect it from the engine and clean that end and the place it rests on.

When I say clean, I mean wire brush until SHINING BRIGHT METAL.

About 85% of this type of complaint simply disappear after doing these SIMPLE things.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot Mike and jgmo for helping me!

Indeed it was in Neutral and I did some multiple jiggling temptations also but no succes. But nevertheless this might be the possibility to investigate...sounds very reasonable. I will start the check here and also on the power wiring.

The strange thing was that in all the 3 cases when I had this problem, it was after tuning it off after some use of power (waterski/wakebard) and it seemed that the motor cranked again after some cooling down...or it was just coincidence. I never (up till now) had the issue with a cold start. The motor at the time was warm but not extremly hot and cooling seems to be very ok.

At least this keeps me going in te first steps of discovery...many thanks again! Ron

….was after turning it off after some useof power (waterski/wakeboard) and it seemed….

Then definitely follow JMGO's advice. Could just be the battery connections at one end or the other.

Does the trim work? From the shifter? The engine? If not, then battery cable/connections.

As a point of reference....this motor needs the battery only to start. Once started, it will run without the battery.

Mike

Thanks again!
Yes the trim worked normally from the shifter and also at the motor itself. So the battery should not be the problem, nevertheless I will follow the advice since it is always a good thing to do.
PS The hard part for now is to find the issue when everything is working well at the time ;-) but it caught me 3 separate times on the lake so it's there…

Could the heat sensor in any way have a connection with this problem? Otherwise it should be in the Neutral adjustment or -switch, power supply or the (key)contact switch as you have mentioned. At least I will go through all these next weekend...

This weekend I did the cleaning of the battery connections and checked the neutral sensor. For now everything seems OK…everything is working fine (again) so it is hard to find the error in the system. Let's hope it will not occur again…Thanks again.

The BEST mechanics have plenty of stories about getting WHOOPED by intermittent problems.
And when it comes to intermittent ELECTRICAL problems, I always pray that it will just go ahead and fail COMPLETELY.........So that I have HALF of a chance to fix it!

You probably got it but it IS a wait n see period you're in right now.

GoodOnYa for following through and doing what you can.

keep us posted

Thanks and fully agree ;-)

Just to answer one of your questions.....the heat sensor should not have anything to do with no cranking. It might affect the spark and timing and not allow it to start.....but the motor would still crank.

Before you take it out again, it may be time to learn how to crank the motor....bypassing the keyswitch..

One the port side of the motor, there is a black plastic cover that covers the cdi and various bullet connectors.
Find the connector that is black/white. Pull the connector apart. One lead goes to the starter solinoid...the other goes to the neutral safety switch.
Now keep a little jumper wire with alligator clips on the boat. It does not have to be a heavy gauge. Clip one end to the large post at the starter solenoid where the battery cable connects. To crank, you can just momentarily touch the other end of the jumper wire to the black/white lead going to the starter solenoid. It bypasses everything.

The motor will then crank....if there is nothing is wrong with the battery, battery connections, starter or starter solenoid.

To start the engine, you will have to have the key switch turned to "on" and the safety landyard connected. Someone will have to operate the throttle to start the motor. You can manually operate the choke at the engine, if the choke is not operated from the key switch.

This is something good to try, before you get stuck on the water. That way you can take your time and figure out what you must do without having screaming kids or wife in the boat with you.

Mike

Mike's "limp home" technique is a really good arrow to have in your quiver. I just want to add that finding the right wire and connector should be done before going out on the water and finding yourself trying to do it with the aforementioned distractions or in a current taking you rapidly to an even worse situation.

I also suggest that, once you find the connector, disconnect it and use a multimeter to find which side of it has voltage and is "hot". Connect the alligator clip of your "jumper" wire to the ground or "dead" side and then momentarily touch the other end of the jumper to the hot side to crank the starter briefly as a test try. Do this with the ignition off and or kill switch activated. You don’t want the engine to start. You are just familiarizing yourself with the bypass cranking technique.

Doing it this way prevents the possibility of the jumper wire going to ground and sparking.... or worse..... should you accidentally drop it or brush it against the engine or another component unintentionally.

Just want you to be safe.

Thanks a lot guys. This is a good tip what makes me smile. It is great that you from USA are helping me greatly in Netherlands!
I will prepare it and make sure to have tested it before I take the boat out. For sure it is a safe thought to have this alternative.
Also to know that the temperature switch is not in the circuit, makes finding the issue much more easy for sure.

I will have the opportunity to do some tests and to prepare all this coming week before it goes to the winter storage (yes winter is coming…) in the harbour (and after that difficult to access.)

I'll let you know and will go prepare my jumper ;-)

Yes sir! We will be standing by waiting for good news.

Good day all. Today I prepared the boat for winter. I brought my prefab jumper along and did the test. It worked fine and the jumper remains on board for just in case purpose. Good tip…very good one!
For now the season has come to an end and the boat will be stored for winter and will not be accessible. April will be the time to take it out again.

Many thanks again and enjoy your boats to all of you!

Ron

Great! This is like watching the last show for the year of a series on Television and the way it ends is....."To Be Continued"...

I hope you have already found your gremlins.

Have a good peaceful winter.

Mike

I hope so ;-) at least I've checked and cleaned all the wiring and connectors up to the keyswitch. Unfortunately I did not have the time left to check and clean all connections there…that remains for spring. The only thing than remaining is the neutral switch if it re-occurs. Either it was a faulty connection somewhere in the line or a 'gremlin' there. At least I can measure and test it in that case directly on the spot (multimeter will be standard equipment). I hope I've killed the beast with your help. For the last 2 runs no problems occurred...

Good winter to you…thanks again

Winter days are good for hot chocolate, reflection on summer days and reading. When you have a bit of time, read up on "voltage drop testing". Voltage drop turns a digital multimeter into the most valuable tool (besides your brain) for finding;

UNWANTED RESISTANCE in ANY electrical connection....component......or length of wire or cable.

It is a test that is done while the circuit is actually working and the PARASITIC loss of voltage due to undue resistance is read directly on the meter screen. For guys that have only used their meter to do static volt checks, it can be a little difficult to wrap your head around the concept. But for those that practice the procedure after reading about it, the results are easy to obtain and the value of testing this way becomes readily evident.

You will be able to "see", electrically, inside that big, black positive or negative battery cable without peeling off the insulation. You can read directly from the meter the amount of volts lost between a loose, dirty cable clamp and the battery post with this test. When I first discovered this method of using my volt meter, it seemed almost like magic. But it is just another part of watching Ohm's Law in action and has become something I can't troubleshoot without. And, it's kinda fun.

There are many excellent tutorials online about voltage drop testing. You may want to look at more than one article if you have any difficulty grasping terms. That and we're always here if you want to discuss the subject.

Good day all....it has been a while. After thinking I found the issue by replacing the battery connectors and loosen and reconnecting some wirings, on a warm day with intense use for wake boarding, the problem occurred again. After switching of the motor to let the wakeboarder enter the boat in a safe way, de starter motor didn't crank again....

I was lucky to have my multimeter with me and the water was calm. After dropping the anchor now finally I had the opportunity to ' catch the beast' .

After checking and measuring step by step it became very clear that the starter magnetic had caused the problems!!! When the engine was warming up, also the starter magnetic was getting warmer. As a result it didn't operate in a good way anymore. It looked like the mechanism got stuck internally due to (heat)expansion of the coil or centerpiece of the magnetic switch.

After a while, when the starter magnetic switch had cooled down, the switch operated OK again and the motor started again without any problem.

In order to be absolutely sure, I took the starter magnetic switch from the outboard for further testing at home. There I made a test circuit with a separate battery. In 'cold' condition the magnetic switch was working fine and the measured resistance went to '0'. But after switching it on and off for a few more times, the internal resistance was building up and at a certain point (when warmed up) it didn't switch anymore. It was also possible to hear that the 'switching sound' became weaker until the magnetic got stuck internally and there wasn't any connection anymore.

Of course I took the opportunity to do this test for a few times after cooling it down again. Each time the same result: resistance building up until no connection was made internally. So that's why it always started normally when cold...

So, to conclude: I replaced the starter magnetic switch with a new one....problem 100% solved ;-))

I felt I owed you the final outcome and maybe it can be of help for someone else.

Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions, Ron

_________________

jgmo said:

Winter days are good for hot chocolate, reflection on summer days and reading. When you have a bit of time, read up on "voltage drop testing". Voltage drop turns a digital multimeter into the most valuable tool (besides your brain) for finding;

UNWANTED RESISTANCE in ANY electrical connection....component......or length of wire or cable.

It is a test that is done while the circuit is actually working and the PARASITIC loss of voltage due to undue resistance is read directly on the meter screen. For guys that have only used their meter to do static volt checks, it can be a little difficult to wrap your head around the concept. But for those that practice the procedure after reading about it, the results are easy to obtain and the value of testing this way becomes readily evident.

You will be able to "see", electrically, inside that big, black positive or negative battery cable without peeling off the insulation. You can read directly from the meter the amount of volts lost between a loose, dirty cable clamp and the battery post with this test. When I first discovered this method of using my volt meter, it seemed almost like magic. But it is just another part of watching Ohm's Law in action and has become something I can't troubleshoot without. And, it's kinda fun.

There are many excellent tutorials online about voltage drop testing. You may want to look at more than one article if you have any difficulty grasping terms. That and we're always here if you want to discuss the subject.

Click to expand...

Congratulations, glad you found the problem.

Just a question about the "starter magnetic switch".

Are you referring to the small, black plastic, square box that plugs into a socket holder and has 4 or 5 blade like terminals? If so, that is what we, in the U.S., call a "relay" when, in fact it actually IS an electromagnetic switch.

Or, are you talking about a different component?

Thanks.

Yes it is the relay as you mention, only it looks a bit different than a standard/common used type. I've attached a picture of the HondaBF40 type on the first photo. On de 2nd photo the relay is working fine in cold condition. When I make the circuit via the battery, the relay works and resistance goes to '0'. On the 3rd picture the relay was warmed up and switching became from poor (increased resistance) to not operating at all. You could also hear a clear ' click' in cold condition to a much softer sound (not a clear click anymore) in warm condition. This indicates it very clearly without even measuring.

jgmo said:

Congratulations, glad you found the problem.

Just a question about the "starter magnetic switch".

Are you referring to the small, black plastic, square box that plugs into a socket holder and has 4 or 5 blade like terminals? If so, that is what we, in the U.S., call a "relay" when, in fact it actually IS an electromagnetic switch.

Or, are you talking about a different component?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

This relay is positioned directly besides the starter motor. The thread/nut connectors are on one side attached to the 12V + and on the other side on the (+) of the starter motor.
The small black wire comes from the starter switch circuit - directly after the neutral switch.

Thanks Ron,
I don't get to look under the hood of most Hondas and your photos and explanation definitely helped me understand what exactly you were working with.
Good piece of troubleshooting and assessment!
Happy boating to ya!

Thanks jgmo...here also a picture of the new relay. Also happy boating for you....first pass winter ;-)