Honda BF225 problems

So, I just got a new boat with a 225 Honda on it,
Its a made in 2005 outboard but sold new in 2011.
I got a couple of problems with it already.

First off, the engines does not rev above 3000-3500, if i trim ut up abit it may spin to 4500 but that not helping in speedings things up really.
So I did what people do best, the google the sympthoms.
I found a few forums telling me the HP and LP fuel filters needed to be replaced, they we're completly right. all dirty and old.
But the problems was still there.
So I took the boat for a few test rides, and everytime i got back into the harbor, while idling along, the alarm startet to beep, constant light and 1 sec interval beeps.
I did notice after a few tries that the engine "coff" the second before the alarm goes off, but I can't find out what that could be, the forums say the O2 sensor is dead, however, i removed it and had it testet at a workshop that have the tools for that. and its perfectly fine, sparkplugs are also brand new now after i got the engine, i even tried the old ones but i still have the problems.
For the record of what I did to the engine, i will write down a small list.

What I did to the engine.
1: Replaced all fuel filters, cleaned the VST and all that stuff, even the internal boat fuel water filter.
2: Plugs and oil.
3. Sink anodes.
4. fresh fuel and additives to clean the injectors and etc.
5. Tested all coils and all are superfine!

But I'm starting to get annoyed with this engine and i dont want to go out and push it to the limits so i avoid damaging it.

So basically, i dont get more than 3000-3500rpm, coff on idle makes alarm go off, and it smokes alot too when running, white clear some vanishing quick but alot of it.

So if anyone out there have a tip or idea what the hell is wrong with my engine, i would LOVE an answer or any tip on what to do, btw my closest honda workshop does NOT have a diagnostic tool as one of the mechanics recently broke it...

Thanks.

Chris

First of all, if you have a four light key switch (green oil pressure, red alternator, red over heat, and red malfunction light) you can pull fault codes which will tell you what is causing the alarm. The procedure has been posted several times on this forum and uses just a paperclip or short bare wire. But if you need a write-up of the procedure, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will send you the procedure and a document that tells you what each fault code means.

Hopefully the new plugs you put in were NGK IZFR6F11. The Denso's are not good for this engine.

If the alarm has one-second beeps and ONLY the MIL (i.e. Check Engine) light and green oil pressure light are on, then there is a problem with the programmed fuel injection system. If your HP fuel filter was dirty and black, it very likely allowed the filter screen that's under the high pressure fuel pump to get clogged, so you will need to remove that pump and pull out and clean or replace the screen. It's item 29 in the following link...

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...5/BF225A5 XCA/VAPOR SEPARATOR ASSY/parts.html

There are other possibilities, so if the fuel screen doesn't do the job, come back at us. There are a bunch of experienced BF 225 owners on this forum.

Also, if you are going to have your Honda shop do that screen, back sure that they check all of the vacuum hose connections and that they check to fuel pressure.

chawk_man said:

First of all, if you have a four light key switch (green oil pressure, red alternator, red over heat, and red malfunction light) you can pull fault codes which will tell you what is causing the alarm. The procedure has been posted several times on this forum and uses just a paperclip or short bare wire. But if you need a write-up of the procedure, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will send you the procedure and a document that tells you what each fault code means.

Hopefully the new plugs you put in were NGK IZFR6F11. The Denso's are not good for this engine.

If the alarm has one-second beeps and ONLY the MIL (i.e. Check Engine) light and green oil pressure light are on, then there is a problem with the programmed fuel injection system. If your HP fuel filter was dirty and black, it very likely allowed the filter screen that's under the high pressure fuel pump to get clogged, so you will need to remove that pump and pull out and clean or replace the screen. It's item 29 in the following link...

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...5/BF225A5 XCA/VAPOR SEPARATOR ASSY/parts.html

There are other possibilities, so if the fuel screen doesn't do the job, come back at us. There are a bunch of experienced BF 225 owners on this forum.

Also, if you are going to have your Honda shop do that screen, back sure that they check all of the vacuum hose connections and that they check to fuel pressure.

Click to expand...

I second this !!! had similar issue , review my posts to see pics

let us know but I bet this is issue since you did everything else

Thanks for the respons.
First of, i think its a 2 light system, 2 small lights on the keyconsol, green oil and temp. And a separate two lights on a small plate indicating battery and check engine.
I use honda recommended plugs NGK IZFR6F11, It was Denso on it from factory, it gpt 190hrs on it.
I will take put the vapor separator and have it completly renewed.
If this doesn't work, ill come back with info.

Chris

OK, that 4-light system will allow you to pull the fault codes. That's the first thing you should do before tearing into the HP fuel pump. And that's what we are talking about - the screen under the fuel pump, not the VST.

I had this exact problem with mine, beeps and all...lol..my fuel pressure at the VST was very high, something like 90+ psi. I ended up having a restriction in the fuel rail screen where the fuel pressure regulator is.

The screen was nice and clean.
I tried to blow through it without resistance. So I dont think that was the issue

Volume92 said:

The screen was nice and clean.
I tried to blow through it without resistance. So I dont think that was the issue

Click to expand...

that's surprises me,, need to find out what fault code is throwing .. you have done all I know.. maybe gooroo's can chime in or look at fuel rail

Ok update, i reinstalled the pump and took it out for a testdrive,
I ran at max throttle and with 3500rpm for 15mins without any difference.
But it smokes ALOT on idle, kinda moisty but disappears instantly. So I took a trip on Ebay and ordered diagnostic tools.. I'm on the brink to dump it mid ocean now..
Same alarm, constant light with 1 sec interval alarms.
The screen was cleaned and reinstalled, pump was tested and works perfectly. The entire fuel system have been cleaned and checked for damage nothing there that could be found.
Thanks for the feedback so far!

Next should be a compression test. All plugs removed, kill switch activated, fully charged batteries. Throttle wide open. Post your compression numbers on this forum. When you pull the plugs, all of them should have a light brown (like milk chocolate) coating on them. If not, note which plugs from what cylinders are not that way.

I have two suspicions - 1. At one time you have had water in your cylinders because you likely have the original exhaust tubes, or 2. your engine is really carboned up. The compression test and plug inspection will confirm.

Just a thought.... check which O2 sensor and ecu you have fitted. New sensor takes a 14mm socket to undo while the old sensor is a 22mm (I think) - I've read that the new sensor requires the new ecu (part number on the sticker ends in A04) and probably vica versa.
Probably not the issue but will give us an idea of what work has been done to the engine, so worth the 2 mins it will take to look.

Metal-Chicken is right about making that check. It's covered in Service Bulletin #70. If you need a copy send me an e-mail at [email protected].

Also, pull the fault codes. The "smoking" is really bothersome. Are you sure it's smoke and not steam?

Ok, will do.
The engine was made according to the serialnumber in 2005 aswell as the stamp on the informationsign.
Im pretty sure its a 22mm, as it was pretty big but i will go and recheck it.
The smoke must be steam since its disappears quickly, there are no smell.
The engine doesn't have the new exhaust tubes either.
All plugs have that nice lightbrown color and look likes its in perfect shape.
The cylinders looks clean as far as i can tell. But i will have that comp test.
I will also send you an email.
According to other forums the o2 sensor might seem fine but people have been fooled before.
But few have had rpm problems. The engine hit te rev lim if i turn hard so it looses grip but when it get a new grip, no power

I received your e-mail and will respond to that in a few minutes.

I'm surprised that you're getting steam, but the plugs are all the correct light brown. If you have water getting into one of the cylinders, under pressure it acts like a cleaning agent and one or more of the plugs would have been very clean - no light brown coating.

A failed HO2 sensor would cause the engine to run too rich and your plugs would have been coated with black soot.

It looks like you are back to the compression test. But before that, check for fault codes on the ECM.

I went back and read your initial post. Take a look at the anti-cavitation plate on the bottom of your engine. It should be even with the lowest point of the keel at the transom. If you have a motor extension, the anti-cavitation plate should be raised 1 inch for every foot of offset from the transom. I didn't think this could be the problem because you bought the boat used. BUT, you can never be sure what the previous owner did.

Another idle thought....
What prop are you running?

Ok, so a little update, here its winter so I winterized the boat for the season. but I'm planning to put it out on the ocean soon.
Before I got it up from the water, I replaced the o2 Sensor, and it took away the idle alarm, so that was one issue however, the engine still do not run above 3000rpm, if I tilt it so much that it "spins" then it revs to max 4200rpm but then there is no grip
I've figured out that it got the codes with either no light or light, i cant remember as we speak but no blinking now. its nice and steady IF its on. If I remember correctly.
Ive been reading alot on this forum, can the Main Relay in ANYWAY have an effect on the ECM/ECU? Because that is one of my pointers now. and I hope that its just that, because that ECM is SUPEREXPENSIVE in Norway :'( twice the price in US.

But this is what it looks like;
Steady Light but no alarm, i think i remember correctly now.
No more steam after o2 replacement. but its brand new and ok.
Can the Main Relay make the ECM go into safemode? which locks it on 3000rpm?

Thanks for the answers so far. I will launch the boat soon I hope to try out if you got any tips for me!

Chris

Safe mode on that engine is 1800 rpm and that will kick in with either an overheat or low oil pressure. If overheat, and it does not correct itself within 20 seconds, the engine will shut itself off. If low oil pressure, it will continue to run.

The next thing I would check is to make sure my throttle cable is adjusted correctly and that your throttle is pushing the throttle lever on the engine all the way forward.

chawk_man said:

Safe mode on that engine is 1800 rpm and that will kick in with either an overheat or low oil pressure. If overheat, and it does not correct itself within 20 seconds, the engine will shut itself off. If low oil pressure, it will continue to run.

The next thing I would check is to make sure my throttle cable is adjusted correctly and that your throttle is pushing the throttle lever on the engine all the way forward.

Click to expand...

Okay, I cab assure you that the cables are nice and tight. I've checked them and did a manual test on the throttle with some help, wide open throttle and almost no respons, and same rpm figures, but these cables are fine. Also the temp havent been a issue, Nice firm tail, and new impeller. But I could run some tests with that.

I got no indication on oil and low pressure. Newly replaced the oil with honda parts and oil. and the right amount. (Newly mean before winterizing the boat) so the amount is not something I walk around remembering, i write them down.

Anything will be tested when i launch the boat.

Thanks again

Just because the throttle is nice and tight doesn't mean it is correct. Below is the throttle adjustment procedure I wrote up for myself several years ago.

Throttle Control Adjustment

First, with engine off, take off the cover, gently put in gear (do not force it – if much resistance, get someone to turn the prop by hand while slipping it into gear), push throttle full open and inspect whether the throttle lever arm (at the cable cam wheel) is up against the stopper. It should be.

If not, before adjusting, pull throttle back to idle speed, put shifter in neutral, and follow the cables to the throttle cam wheel (on top of the engine toward the rear) and make sure they are not damaged or kinked.

At the throttle cam wheel, make sure the adjustment nuts are tight. Measure the distance between the adjustment bracket and the end of the cable adjustment threads. They should be 9 mm on both. If not, adjust.

Back to the throttle cam where the lever is located - measure the length from the end of the threaded part back to the adjustment nut - the open side (to your left as you are facing it) should be 14 mm. The close side (to your right) should be 19 mm. If not, adjust.

Put back in gear, and push throttle all the way forward. Throttle arm on the cable cam should be up against the stopper. If not, then you likely have a problem with the cable from your throttle control to your engine, which will need to be adjusted or replaced.

If the throttle arm is up against the stopper, then look at where the roller sits in the throttle cam. It looks like a fat inverted "L". The roller should be almost touching the top of the narrow part of the "L". Then pull the throttle lever at your control all the way back, and put the engine in neutral. The roller should now line up with the "V" mark on the foot of the "L."

If not, adjust the linkages until the roller does what it is supposed to do – nearly touch the stopper at full throttle and line up with the "V" mark at minimum throttle.

For more detail, see pages 3-18 to 3-21 in the Helm Shop Manual.

CHAWK has given you some great information (as always) which will hopefully find the problem, but if not..... Just thinking out loud here.....

Did the previous owner say the engine was running fine before you bought it?

Did you add the fuel additive before this problem started?

Have you checked your fuel supply line and bulb?

Did you do the compression test?

Chawk have made me clear about many things on the engine, I've replaced many things and had a good service on it!
First off the previous owner is a senile old man that can f*** off since the problem accured before i bought it, yes I know I should have checked it out before but he assured me that it was fixed on the workshop, nor did I use the boat for about 4-5 months after i bought it because it was mid winter, and I don't like the fact that I'm out on the ocean when it's 10 below outside

Second, No i did not.
Third, yes I did a complet makeover of the fuel supply line, cleaned the tank, checked air and replaced the bulb(long after the problem accured) and new onboard water separator that will be replaced every year in my ownership.

Fourth: No I don't have tools for it now but it was done at the service about 2-3 months before I got it, i talked to the mechanic because I went to the shop asking for help, for your info, THESE MECHANIC sux, basically because they are more Evinerude techs than Honda (even tho they sell and repair both)

OK now over to Chawkmans reply xD

I went to the boat, did some testing and checked the cables, they are well adjustet, I even took some pictures to show that it goes all the way to WOT if you want a proof? :S

AND also before I forget, i did the manual fault code test, and its a Solid light with no alarm, indicating the fault code for MIL stays on code page 5-17 something.
yes i know again, it's my fault for not checking this up from the very start, and i've learned my lesson, so now I'm gonna fix this engine nomatter what!

Okay, now i have been testing the cables and looking into the WOT function, it does open it alm the way so thats not the issue, i took pictures if you want a proof?

I alsp hooked the battery up and did thr Mil test, and its a solid light no beeps indicating fault 2 on the list, which means i gotta check volts and test power up to the ECM, or even replace it. Gonna do some tests when the weather clears up.

Metal-chicken yes chawkman is helping alot, ive had good service to the engine.
But no the previous owner had the faults but claimed to have fixed it, but i did not use the boat for months after i bought it, so its my fault and ive learned my lesson.

I did not add fuel additive untill half way down this repair road.

Ive cleaned, replaced the bulb, replaced the onboard water separator and checked the airsupply for the tank. So thats working well.

I did not do the comp test, but the shop did it when the prev owner had it on service 'just before' i got it and claimed he fixed the fault. And i need to buy the tool for it now myself but even tho im gonna replace the ecm and relays and make sure the Electrical components are up to date 100% okay

Are there any updates on this? I'm curious... Is this single engine or twins? What're is the length and Hull design? Have you ever run this boat above 3500 successfully?

Skooter said:

Are there any updates on this? I'm curious... Is this single engine or twins? What're is the length and Hull design? Have you ever run this boat above 3500 successfully?

Click to expand...

Its a Single Engine setup, the boat is a 25ft Gulf Craft Ambassador Daycruiser, no i havent run it above 3500rpm successfully, if i tilt it up, it may run to 4200rpm but its less resistance then, but not when its tilted correctly.

metal-chicken said:

CHAWK has given you some great information (as always) which will hopefully find the problem, but if not..... Just thinking out loud here.....

Did the previous owner say the engine was running fine before you bought it?

Did you add the fuel additive before this problem started?

Have you checked your fuel supply line and bulb?

Did you do the compression test?

Click to expand...

Chawkman have been a very good help indeed, ive basically given that crap a good service by now.
I ****ed up when I bought this, the previous owner had its serviced and told me It was in good shape, but I should have been more careful when i got it and tested it properly, i did not use the boat for about 4-5 months after i got it. it was mid winter.
I did not add any additive before halfway down the road with this problem.
I have cleaned, replaced and testet old and new bulbs, new onboard filter with water separator, cleaned the airing, and checked for leaks, and its all good there.
No i did not test for compression, i lack the tools and it was done on the service according to the dealer(i think they lied)
But from the 3500rpm and down, it runs smoothly, no hicks and hacks, like my car when it lost compression. But ill get a tool and check it.

I rather test the 5-17 fault code, cus i checked that also, its a solid light(Mil) fault 2. Im gonna test volts up for the ECM, however im gonna swap it anyways i think.


Chawkman

I have a 26' mako with Armstrong bracket and twin 200s it will not get up on plane with one engine and will only go 3000 RPM.. Just wondering if it could be under powered

Skooter said:

I have a 26' mako with Armstrong bracket and twin 200s it will not get up on plane with one engine and will only go 3000 RPM.. Just wondering if it could be under powered

Click to expand...

I doubt that would be the problem, I spoke to the owner that was before the one i got the boat from, he had 39-41knots even on video to show me, and it was loaded with fuel and camping stuff. You should get the same, Im going to buy the diagnostic tool for the engine, i would recommend you doing the same, the tools have helped me on cars and such

metal-chicken said:

CHAWK has given you some great information (as always) which will hopefully find the problem, but if not..... Just thinking out loud here.....

Did the previous owner say the engine was running fine before you bought it?

Did you add the fuel additive before this problem started?

Have you checked your fuel supply line and bulb?

Did you do the compression test?

Click to expand...

Chawkisawesome!
Yes, he did
No i added it later
Yes, all fixed and repaired. It was never a issue, but a new waterseperatorfilter, new bulb and cleaned airing and no leaks
No, i dont have the tool, but the workshop did it last service.

I have the HDS and I too highly recommend it..

Throttlewire is fine, checked and and readjustet just for checking it.
I even took some pictures if you want proof, everything is cleaned and testet, but MIL indicates fault 2 according to the paper you sent me, Solid light no alarm no blink.
ECM failure is a big deal here. But im gonna do some volt tests on it. I will doublecheck but it might be changed soon anyways