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440 rebuild

carguy87

New member
Hi, I have started a rebuild on an old M440 for my dad's boat. Had the heads taken into the machine shop and they are rusted and pitted pretty bad from sitting for 20 years, does anyone know what valves I should run? Do I need Sodium filled, stainless, stellite, or is stock steel fine? I was thinking stellite for the exhaust would be the best option, but can't seem to find anywhere to buy them from. Since I'm here, I've got a few other questions too. In seeing the condition of everything I took apart, I was wondering what making this boat a closed cooling system would require? I would probably want to maintain the fresh water in the exhaust manifolds or heat exchangers though. And aside from the marine gaskets required, are there any other considerations I should be made aware of? Special distributor or pistons maybe? I've built plenty of car and motorcycle engines before, but this will be my first V8 marine build. I don't count the Mercruiser 4cyl. I did 4 years ago. I did ask the machine shop to use hardened steel valve seats and guides since I will be running unleaded, and to align bore the block and balance the rotating assembly. The old crank had a spun rod bearing and is toast, can I replace it with a crank from a car engine? That brings the next question, is this an internally or externally balanced engine? I know most of the car engines past 73 were external. Thank you in advance for the pool of knowledge I am about to receive.
 
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Already took in the heads from the car engine. Which crankshaft is preferred for the boat engine, cast or forged? I'm also planning on putting in ARP studs on the connecting rods to prevent any torque loss on those bolts and provide more accurate crush on the bearings. Any other suggestions for me?
 
I'd go with whatever type crank it came with. Stock components won't need balancing.

Then too, if your going to try something like this........................
 

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My intention with having them balanced and align bored is to allow everything to turn a little more freely and be easier on the bearings while its running at 4000+ rpm all day. This boat will most likely be spending it's days pulling tubes or cruising the Great Lakes. And who said it was going to remain stock?:rolleyes: First iteration will probably just be a higher flowing intake manifold, removing the logs from the exhaust, and adding some spacers to run some small block style risers. That 6 pack idea sure does sound nice though!
 
Already took in the heads from the car engine. Which crankshaft is preferred for the boat engine, cast or forged? I'm also planning on putting in ARP studs on the connecting rods to prevent any torque loss on those bolts and provide more accurate crush on the bearings. Any other suggestions for me?
forged crank please !
 
Interesting build, show me a broken cast crank and someone else will show me a busted forged one. 4000 rpm all day?, billet would be the way to go. Figure in a nice dry sump lube system and the triple carbs (you know you want more than 4000).
 
Ha-ha,but tri-carb is a little out of my price range after having to get the original forged crank welded up and ground to a size I can get bearings for.. Funny you mention that, what are you guys running for sumps? The one that came out of the boat didn't look like it could hold more than 3-4qts. I'm just not too trusting of that with all the waves altering boat angle. I'll post a pic later when I get home of that pan and see what you guys think.
 
Well I would post photos for you guys, but this blasted website won't let me uploaded pictures from my phone, computer, or photo bucket.... Can anyone help me out here?
 
Alright, took me a while, but I figured it out. So this pan does have a windage tray as pictures and a small baffle in the pan. The oil pickup looks like it was cut and welded back at an odd angle, I didn't get a picture of it. Here is the pan, welds look amateur at best, let me know if this looks sufficient to you guys, I don't think it is a stock oil pan though.

Back (640x305).jpgFront (640x360).jpgInside view (640x360).jpgLeft Side (2) (640x360).jpgRight Side (640x360).jpg
 

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Be really careful with 'creative' engineering of an oil pick up. It doesn't take long to lunch a motor if the pump starves for oil--and ESPECIALLY with that motor (with it's external oil pump). There's a long inlet tube on them that creates a long (and costly) delay in getting oil pressure back up after it's lost. Drag racers were very careful when messing with 440s to be sure the pump never starved for oil, and you should too.

I'd replace the whole deal with proven stock parts.

Jeff
 
That's what I was thinking. Now I just need to get the boat in front of me to see if maybe they did this for clearance. The flywheel cover was stamped as being a 426, just found that a couple days ago, so maybe they had a clearance issue when putting in the 440? Also discovered I have the 452 casting heads at the machine shop, so I get to save some coin by not needing the hardened valve seats installed! Also got my pistons and other miscellaneous items in the mail too, so assembly should be starting soon! One thing I'm worried about, the head gaskets came in a package that said Felpro Marine, but they appear to be normal composite head gaskets, not the stainless steel ones. Is this an issue?
 
Only if your motor uses raw water cooling.

Jeff

PS: Test the metal with a magnet; most stainless is non-magnetic.
 
Are the head gaskets coated as in "perma-torque" or just .019" shim type?

The pan, a 402 (likely a 4 quart + 1 for filter), looks like it was modified for extra capacity. From the pictures the drain looks in about normal location. Example pictures of repopscan be found on "Gold-Bay" ...............

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Mopar-1...ash=item3d161f6cb0:g:ScgAAOSwbwlW~oiS&vxp=mtr

I see Mancini has a 6 quart and pickup set (3/8" or 1/2" pick up tube, you choice) that may work pending clearance if you can't find the correct pan and pickup.
http://www.manciniracing.com/ststheoilpa61.html


The RB (referred to as raised block) Chryslers are pretty much the same dimensionally on the outside. This includes the 413, 426 wedge, and 440 blocks. The B engines, 361, 383, and 400 (all wedges also) are shorter and narrower. All pretty much mount in the same locations.
Some engine dimensions from automotive world ..............
 

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Thank you for the info! My engine is a 71', so I'm not sure how they made that work, unless they mean just for crossmember clearance in the car. Or maybe that is why the original engine spun a bearing? I thought they used a cast pan for marine application? Is this what they used and what is preferred?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/OIL-PAN-CAST-...0-400-383-Big-Blocks-/331725936248?nav=SEARCH
I'm just looking for the best solution to prevent any oiling problems from occurring. I can make a new dipstick to fit whichever oil pan is put on, just don't want to have to pull it again once it's in there and find that turning drains the pan and it loses pressure. Also, does anyone know where you can get decently priced heat exchangers? I'm looking to make my boat a closed cooling system aside from the exhaust manifolds. Looking for the style with included expansion tank.

As far as the cylinder head gaskets, the ones they sent me in the marine packaging are coated steel, every bit of them is magnetic. So if I use these, I will definitely have to go closed cooling system, right? The directions in them are also for a Ford engine, not sure what that is about.
 
I think I'd go for that cast pan first over any car pans. I can't see it being much deeper than the one you have. Then too, did the current pan have any extra room below, fore, and aft? The car pan sumps sit between the K-frame and steering center links. Also, I don't know for sure a marine windage tray is the same as auto. You'll need to find that out.
I think a big concern would likely be the rear main seal leaking on you. Do some heavy research there.

BTW, Milodon makes large capacity big buck pans for the marine wedges also.

As far as "magnetic" head gaskets, there are different grades of stainless ranging from ferrous to non-ferrous. I'd double check the part numbers and question the gasket manufacture on the application and intended environmental use. All big block Mopars have five head bolts around each cylinder. If the head and deck is flat I doubt you'll ever blow one out.
 
It's about 2" deeper according to the measurements, and the marine manual I have says the M440 held 6 quarts of oil. To me, that is a lot more preferable, better internal cooling, more oil for going through turns, and everything else. I'm driving out to get some measurements from the hull today. Hopefully the cast one will fit, and I can add a line for easier oil changes. The head gaskets do have the passages for the cooling ports around the spark plugs, so they were at least made for those M440's or heavier trucks with that option built in. Just need to figure out what oil pickup will work with that cast aluminum pan.
 
Got the aluminum oil pan and pickup tube for it on the way! Should be getting the lower half of the engine back from the machine shop sometime next week, should be able to post pictures of everything then.
 
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