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  1. #1

    Default 225 Stalls after trolling

    Hi again; I received some good advice on this forum in the past, let's see how good you are

    Three bf 225's in my area (mine and two friends) are having the same problem. Model years run from 2009 to 2011. Engine hours are not the same. My 2011 has 650, one 2009 about 1,000 and another 2009 about 1,500 hours. All developed this problem last year.
    All are used primarily for trolling (3mph). Start motor at pier and run to fishing grounds (30 min) with no problems at all. Drop to trolling speed and troll for 3,4,5 hours. Pull all lines and when we power up, motor stalls, shakes, alarm goes off for an instant, motor drops back to "safe" speed (3 or 4mph).
    We drop throttle back momentarily, then throttle back up with no problem. What's up?
    All of us thought replacing the Hi-Pressure filter (VST?) this winter would take care of the problem. But it hasn't.

    It acts like it's starving for fuel. We have tried pumping the bulb before powering up, thinking the motor was sipping fuel while trolling, and it needed a bigger Glup in order to power up. This isn't working either.

    We tried powering up very slowly, allowing the fuel consumption to "catch up" with the increase in speed. That didn't work either.

    One of my friends tried putting it in neutral, revving the motor (takes fuel fine), then powering up. It still stalls.

    Is it a "vapor lock" of some sort?

    Has anyone else had this problem? We all get fuel from different sources. Some on the water (marina's), some trailer and only use "gas station" fuel (10% ethanol).

    HELP
    5th

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    what kind of alarm u got,when the engine is stall ? And which lights come on ?
    did you cleaned the IACV and Throttle body, intake air box ?


    wajira

  3. #3

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    The alarm is like a tenth of a second, no lights come on that I can see. It happens so quickly, and not every time.

    I haven't got a clue what the rest of your question entails (IACV etc).

    With three motors behaving similarly, there has to be others doing the same thing; and a fix !!
    5th

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    i want to clear , is their a "beep " buzzer coming ,when the problem comes. no any lights ? their is two type of "beep" one is short intermediate other one is long "beep"

    one more thing is if their is some loose connection of power supply also ,it will come on the buzzer once like engine goes off and comes on in a second .


    wajira

  5. #5

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Of the three motors, mine is the only one that sounds an alarm. A loud piercing alarm for a split second. No lights are lit (almost as if the problem is "corrected" when the motor drops rpm's).
    Today, I trolled for about six hours straight. I went back and "pumped" the fuel bulb. It was soft, and after about 4-5 squeezes, it was firm and there was no problem getting on plane.

    However, my buddy with the motor that has the most hours, had his stall/shudder today even while trolling. It corrects and he continued trolling the rest of the day. When he picked up rods, he turned off the motor and let it sit for a couple of minutes, then pumped the fuel bulb (trying to simulate when he originally starts the motor at the pier, and it runs fine). BUT, when he restarted the motor and tried to bring it up on plane, it stalled.

    He is finished fishing until he gets it straightened out. He's beginning to feel as if it is going to leave him out there.

    5th
    Last edited by 5th Tuition; 04-30-2016 at 08:49 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    did u say no lights. that also confusing me, their should be one light has to be lit all the time, green OIL light. can you make sure whether it is their always when engine running.

    wajira

  7. #7

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Sure; I can check. When I said no lights, I meant no additional lights are seen by me when it happens. It all happens so quickly.
    In my case, my normal procedure would be when I am done fishing (trolling) for the day, I would continue in trolling speed (3-4mph) while I pull in my rods (so no lures drop to the bottom). Pulling and "wrapping" 20 rods takes some time (25 minutes). Then we proceed to bring in our planer boards (off of which we ran 14-16 rods) which takes another 10 min with the motor in dead slow idle speed (maybe 650 rpms). Another 5-6 min is taken to place all the accessories (cooler, planer boards, captain chairs) in their place to run back to the dock.

    Making sure everyone is seated or firmly holding on, I would throttle up to 4200-4300 rpm (25-27mph) for the run back. I never throw the "hammer down". I increase speed gradually. I'm 64 years old. The boat is not used for water skiing or tubing either

    As I increase throttle, my ***** begins to pucker, wondering if the motor is going to accept the increased fuel; or shutter and stall (with a short piercing alarm). If it "happens"; it's just before getting on plane. The motor shutters, backs itself down, and I pull back on the throttle. This all happens so quickly. I cuss, have to explain to the crew that what just happened doesn't mean we all have to swim back to the dock; and try again. It has always accepted fuel the second time (so far). We run back home with no other inconveniences.

    It also doesn't happen EVERY time with my motor. It has become a constant problem for my buddies motor.

    That's about as much detail as I can give. Because I get a short alarm, does this mean that a code has been thrown? Even if it is a split second alarm? Can hooking it up to the computer give me a "reading"?

    I did a search on the forum for 225 stalling. We had the high pressure filter "assembly" (the cup with the filter inside) replaced this past winter. Is there another "screen" beyond this. I also don't think we had a tube drained by placing a vacuum on it. I watched the mechanic when he performed the service. As a matter of fact, it was very much like the youtube video (which shows how to replace the hi pressure filter on a 225 honda). The only difference was our mechanic took off the whole bottom cowling to avoid chipping paint or damaging the plastic because it was winter in Maryland and the plastic might be more brittle than summer.

    Not being a mechanic, it sure seems to me that it's a gas flow or vapor lock situation.

    Thanks for "sticking" with this thread and trying to help. My buddy is definitely taking his motor to the mechanic again to try to straighten this out. Perhaps I will have more info from him to post shortly.
    5th

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Well, I fish exactly like you do on the lower Potomac and middle Chesapeake. My 2007 BF 225 has just short of 1800 hours and I have never experienced this problem.

    As Wajira suggested, look carefully at the key switch when you expect this will happen again. See if the green oil pressure light stays on and any of the three red lights come on. If it truly is a fault detected by the ECU, then you can pull codes to find out what sensor is throwing the code. The procedure for pulling fault codes has been described many times on this forum. If in doubt, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will send you the procedure for pulling the fault codes.

    Here are a couple top-of-mind thoughts and questions.

    Speculating, it is possible that after powering up from trolling, you could be drawing a bit of water into the fuel. Therefore...

    When did you last drain your external fuel/water separator? (The filter should be changed out annually.)

    When did you last your drain your onboard fuel/water separator? If there is any water at all in the on/board fuel/water separator, then drain or change out your low pressure fuel filter.

    Most importantly, when did you last drain the VST? On the back starboard side of your motor, you will see a plastic tube looped around a holder. Unhook it, and look down at the base where it connects. Beside the connection is a small set screw. Use a long 10” or longer, flat blade screwdriver to open the set screw - slowly. First, turn on your key switch briefly so that the HP fuel pump charges the system. Then, with the end of the hose extended downward into a clear container that will hold at least a quart of liquid, start opening the set screw. Do not open too far - if it comes out, you will need to remove the lower cowling to retrieve it. Anywhere from one to two pints of gas, and maybe some water and gunk will come out of that tube. Be patient, the last stuff to come out is usually slow, but drain out as much as you can. If there is water, or any gunk, then your fuel-water separator has failed and needs to be cleaned thoroughly or replaced. If there is no flow out of the plastic hose, blow low pressure compressed air back through the tube to open it up.

    Speculating again, it is possible that you are losing pressure on the VST. You wouldn't notice that while trolling, but once you take off it could cause the problems you have described. The VST is in place to assure an adequate amount of non-turbulent fuel is available to the high pressure fuel pump. The fuel in the VST tank is kept under pressure to prevent vaporization, thus preventing the fuel from becoming too lean under variable demand. If you have lost that pressure, the engine will do what you described until the fuel pumps re-pressurize it. Two reasons that the VST can lose pressure is that the set screw for draining it has come loose or is damaged, or that you have a leaking seal.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  9. #9

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Wajira and Chawk;
    Thanks for all the suggestions and speculation. Even speculation helps. As I said, my buddy is taking his motor to our mechanic. He has printed out several threads (including this one) and is taking them with him. Most all the suggestions seem to be fairly simple, especially for an outboard mechanic. So, the plan is to have him do several things in hopes that one of them will be the magic answer.
    The most expensive thing is "time" or labor. Although the VST was changed, I don't think it was ever "drained". I'm sure that will be something that will be done. The fuel/water separators on both boats was just recently changed over the winter. I personally have been hand carrying fuel to the boat, fearing the early fuel at marinas
    I have offered to pull my boat from the slip and take it to the mechanic in case it is throwing a code. I know this would simplify the investigation.
    Thanks for all the replies.
    Chawk, I keep my boat in Deale for the trophy season. It will be slipped just above the bridge for the summer months, and I trailer to your neck of the woods for the late fall fishery. It has been off the hook below Solomons the last two years in Dec. and Jan. I trailer and go out of either Buzz's Marina or Polint Lookout State Park.
    I think a bunch of rock are headed your way as the last wave exits the bay. Have you noticed all the action New Jersey is having on stripers that have already left? Good luck to the rest of your season!
    5th

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    I woke up this morning thinking about this issue. It is rather mysterious, especially given that three motors are having the same or similar problems.

    BTW - you do not need to pull the boat to get the codes as long as you can get the engine cover off and remove the plastic electronics cover on the front of the engine. Here is the abbreviated procedure...

    Take off the engine cover and then the black plastic cover over the electronics on the front of the engine. There you will see a red four-pronged female plug. Remove the plug from its holder by pressing down on the clip and pulling it to your right as you are facing it. Use a paper clip to shunt the lime green/white wire to the black wire that is, the two wires that are closest to the engine when the red service connector is correctly set in its holder. If in doubt, invest in a SCS service connector, which you can order online - part number 070PZ-ZY30100. (FYI - it's a good idea to carry one of these connectors on your boat.)

    Once connected, turn on the key switch and observe the number of blinks on the check engine (MIL) light. The blinks will repeat until you turn off the key.

    If the MIL comes on, then stays on, there are no codes in the EPROM. This is contrary to what it implies in the Helm Shop Manual (Page 5-14.)

    If the MIL starts blinking, then count the blinks, which will indicate the fault code. You may get long blinks and short blinks. For example, two long blinks, followed by five short blinks, would be a fault code 25. The blink sequence will repeat itself until you turn the key off. If there is more than one fault, you will get multiple fault codes. For example, three short blinks, followed by two long blinks and five short blinks would be fault codes 3 and 25. Look up the codes on the accompanying .pdf file. Or, send me an e-mail at [email protected] and I will send you the codes. MIL fault codes.pdf

    Here is a rather far fetched speculation, but I have seen it happen before. It is possible that CO2 is building up under the engine cover. When you start to accelerate, the engine is starved for O2. To test that theory, simply remove the cover just before you take off, let the top of the engine air out for a minute or two, then try to accelerate.

    I'll reply to the other part of your message in a private message from this forum.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  11. #11

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    So on page #2 thread "Need some help on 2002 honda 225"
    Suggestion and correction was the Filter Screen to VST? Part #29?

    Think this might be our problem?
    5th

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    That's possible, but I don't think is probable. That problem initially shows up most often at higher rpm's.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  13. #13

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    My buddy pulled his boat yesterday. I'll report back how it turns out
    5th

  14. #14

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2076.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	72.7 KB 
ID:	13245So my buddy writes, "So after 4 hours of attempting to loosen, drill out, punch out, and definitely cuss out the screw at the bottom of the VST (I'm sure it's never been out in 10 years) decided to just take out the entire effing VST".

    I think he wanted to drain a fuel line behind it that's recommended to be drained every year.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Hmmmm - Wonder if they have ever hear of PB Blaster? Or at lease an impact driver. Either would have likely worked.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  16. #16

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Hello

    I am having the same problem with my 2005 225. My mechanic is stumped. Sorry I am very late to this thread. Are there any updates?

    Thanks.

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    I suggest that you start a new thread.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  18. #18

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    sorry i cant find "post new thread" i am new to this

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Click on "Honda Outboard Forum"

    Under that look in the gray bar on the left and click on "Forum Tools"

    That will open up a window, and select "Post a New Thread."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  20. #20

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Quote Originally Posted by I4getfishing View Post
    sorry i cant find "post new thread" i am new to this
    Hi;
    It's been a long time since I started this post. The "stalling" after trolling for several hours has become intermittent. The best thing I have found, and my buddies with the same motor do as well; is to try to remember to pump up the bulb after trolling.
    After trolling (more than 4 hours), I go to the gas bulb and it's very weak. I pump it up until its "firm", and off we go.
    After more investigation, this might not be simply a "motor" problem". It may be do to the design of the fuel tank, federal regulations, and changes the manufacture had to make to be in compliance.
    My boat is a 2011, and some of the models in that age group (2008-2012) have been in contact with me for the same issue.

    It's not a big deal anymore Sometimes I forget to pump the bulb, and it is still ok (maybe I didn't troll long enough that day). Pumping the bulb certainly helps; and I was surprised how much I needed to pump it to get it to "firm".

    I definitely think it's a "starving fuel" issue. When I "throttle up" after trolling all day, my butthole tightens a bit waiting to see if the motor picks up fuel and we race back to the slip

    Give it a try, certainly nothing to lose by "pumping up" after trolling. Hope it works as well for you as it does for us.
    5th Tuition
    Marty

  21. #21
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    Apr 2018
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Check you fuel cooler water flow rate, the outlet through the pressure relief valve housing may be blocked causing vapour lock

  22. #22

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Testing

  23. #23

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    Three times I tried to post and it says I have to login again Sorry for the above reply.

    Ill try that Marty Thanks

    My mechanic says hondas bad for corrosion and since mine is 15 years old this may be the problem. No fix for it except use as an anchor. Mine only has 400 hours as I trailer everywhere. I flush all the time. I know some who never do.

    My bulb also flat but i slow trolled home cause i was afraid to break down. If Marty's fix works maybe I'll try a new bulb?

    Thanks again every one and sorry I am internet stupud

  24. #24

    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    I do not get "Forum Tools" anywhere. I see "Forum Actions" which does not allow me to start a new thread. My teenaged daughter is pretty internet savvy and she can't figure it out either.

    Marty, I'm interested in knowing if you ever pulled the code for the alarm on your motor. I had a split second alarm one time as did you, and my mechanic said the code said overheating. But I had a new impeller and thermostat with good water at the pee hole. The next time it happened to me there was no alarm. The mechanic told me when water testing that they could measure temps with some kind of monitor at different places on the motor while running and all were within spec. This was when they could not reproduce the problem. I suspect they did not slow troll before the test.



    iang I will try Marty's fix and if it does not pan out i will look into that.

    Thank you

  25. #25
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    Default Re: 225 Stalls after trolling

    torotor Just a wee comment, overheating does not log a code and I don't think your motor is ready to use as an anchor. Try the fuel cooler flow check, I'm almost certain that is. your problem, it's fairly common

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