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1972 Johnson Hydroelectric Shift - 65hp

D

Darrell Steinke

New member
Hello! I have a 1972 Johnson Hydroelectric Shift - 65hp motor and all tests point to the shift solenoid being bad (out of ohms range).
There is a guy locally with a 1972 50-55-60hp Hydroelectric Shift lower unit, complete with solenoids, available. Fingers crossed.....
Is this solenoid(s) the same as mine? I would LOVE to just remove and replace the whole thing, wires and all.
 
According to my parts book, they're identical, part number for part number... the entire shift solenoid assembly.
 
AWESOME!!! His is an Evinrude, but that's exactly the same I imagine...
He says it all worked really well before he melted a piston in the motor.
Thanks so much for the quick reply! I could have probably researched but you guys seem to really know your stuff.
OK, hopefully I can make a deal tonight.
 
Why do you think you have a bad solenoid ?-----------Are you aware that motor must be running in order for the shift to work ?------When motor is stopped it will be in forward gear.-------You can operate the control all day long and it will not shift if motor is not running !
 
racerone said:
Why do you think you have a bad solenoid ?-----------Are you aware that motor must be running in order for the shift to work ?------When motor is stopped it will be in forward gear.-------You can operate the control all day long and it will not shift if motor is not running !
Click to expand...

OK... I'm glad we're having this conversation, because I was reading and thinking about this as well. Bear with me, but I'll tell you the story:
My cousin bought a cabin, this thing was in the boathouse. He used it last year a bit, this past spring his little 4 year old was playing in the boat pretending to drive, key is on, he's switching back and forth between fwd, N, rev... battery dies. 2 weeks later my cousin charges up the battery and nothing. He has the service manual, so goes thru checks (he's an electrical engineer, so very meticulous and knows his stuff) and determines an out of range ohms in the neutral solenoid. He says "I don't have time for this...." buys new boat, sells this one to me.
I get it home, drain the lower unit, pull it off (complete with trace wire thru exhaust housing), put it on the bench and start researching. The more I read, the less I want to take that solenoid cover off... Haha!
A few facts you might find interesting:
1. He says when you crank the engine the prop and everything spins, but it won't fire because of safety (wired that way). True?
2. Fluid seemed fine when I drained it. Have new Type C to refill.
Should I reinstall, top up with fluid, and try spinning it with my 1/2" drill or something?
Are there easy things I can do now that it's on the bench?
The wires from the connections down to the solenoids seemed ok... might test continuity once I have the solenoids out...?
Direction please? :)
 
There is also the scenario of that used lower unit with the exact same system in it... but maybe that isn't even the problem?
I'm basically fixing the stuck in fwd issue to get it running, but what if it's stuck in fwd because it's not running? Haha... insert circus music here.
Another thing, and I'm just mentioning this because I've heard it twice now, is to wedge a 2x4 in the prop and crank to "unstick" it? Sounds too good to be true and also a nice way to damage many many parts.
 
????------You seem confused !!!-----It will not shift if not turning.------------Here is the simple bench test.---Fill with type -C oil.----Use jumper wires.-------Hook pos 12 volts to the green and negative to the casing.--------The motor should go to nuetral after one turn of the driveshaft.----I have done that test many , many times and it is simple !!
 
racerone said:
????------You seem confused !!!-----It will not shift if not turning.------------Here is the simple bench test.---Fill with type -C oil.----Use jumper wires.-------Hook pos 12 volts to the green and negative to the casing.--------The motor should go to nuetral after one turn of the driveshaft.----I have done that test many , many times and it is simple !!
Click to expand...

OK... so I did the test. It remains in fwd with 12V pos to the green wire and neg to the casing. Spun the prop a number of times, nothing. The unit was laying on it's side (oil fill/vent holes up) while I did this... not sure if that matters.
Now what?
The guy with the good lower unit from a 55hp is talking $60 for all. I think I'll grab it. What's involved in remove and replace of the entire solenoid assembly from that lower unit to mine?
 
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You spin the drive shaft during this test with lower unit in normal running position !!!-----------You spin the driveshaft the way the motor turns it when running !!
 
racerone said:
You spin the drive shaft during this test with lower unit in normal running position !!!-----------You spin the driveshaft the way the motor turns it when running !!
Click to expand...

OK, so you're telling me to redo the test with the unit supported upright and to spin the input shaft, not the output shaft, right?
So looking down at the input shaft would I spin it clockwise or counterclockwise?
 
What is the preferred method of spinning the shaft? Looks like I'll need to grip it with something other than my hands... Vice grip? I don't want to mar the shaft at all...
 
I'm no expert but you could just wrap a rag around the spline of the shaft and spin with a pipe wrench or even by hand. BTW...."Nice Boat"...She looks like she just came off the showroom floor!
 
?????---------Lightly grip it with a visegrip , that won't do any damage.---------Ok you are worried about damage than use a piece of aluminum shim stock ( beer can ) to protect the spline !!-------Turn the driiveshaft the way the motor runs !!
 
How I spin it: Wrap a piece of nylon rope (like a starter cord) around the shaft two turns. Hold both ends snug and pull on one end to rotate shaft clockwise. Like a Boy Scout starting a fire with a bow and stick. BTW, I don't know why so many people are quick to condemn the solenoids. They are not that troublesome. OK, your electrical engineer diagnosed it, so I won't argue.
 
OK... sorry to keep posting problems and not success, but that's the way this is going right now.
I picked up the other lower unit c/w good solenoids for $60. Worse case scenario, I resell. I thought it looked the same and that I could just bolt it on, but once I had it home it looks like the top of the shaft (spline) is different, as well as the top of the gear box area itself. Solenoids look EXACT tho, so that's good. Before I transfer the solenoids over, there is something I noticed-
On the unit that I picked up, that is apparently in perfect working order, I can turn the shaft easily by hand in either direction (forward or reverse) with no power to the solenoids. There is the usual 1/2 revolution of "play" in the process.
On mine (the one I'm trying to fix) I can turn it forward only, when I try to go the other way there is the usual approx half revolution of play, then a dead stop.
Comments? Is this something that new solenoids would cure, or am I on the wrong path?
 
(Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE 1 -The ohm reading of the individual shift solenoids should be between 5 to 6 ohms. The ohm meter should be set to low ohms. The shift wires leading to the solenoids must be disconnected when being tested.

NOTE 2 - The solenoid plunger measurement must be made with the solenoid placed within the lower unit. The measurement must be approximately 1/64" beneath the top surface of the solenoid... NOT above the solenoid surface nor any lower than 1/64" of the solenoid surface. This factory measurement is critical and will not ever change UNLESS someone has tinkered with it.


The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.


In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)


To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.


This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).

With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:

http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
 
Much appreciated. Can I have someone answer these 2 questions though?-
1. What is "normal"? For the input shaft to turn freely both ways? Or to stop dead in one direction?
2. Is there some safety mechanism that doesn't allow the motor to start if the lower unit is in gear?
Thanks!
 
1. It should turn both ways.
2. Yes, there is a start-in-neutral-only feature built into the shift switch in the 1972 remote controls.
 
fdrgator said:
1. It should turn both ways.
2. Yes, there is a start-in-neutral-only feature built into the shift switch in the 1972 remote controls.
Click to expand...


1. OK, so that points to some sort of a problem. Any ideas and how to fix?
2. OK, so that's up front. Supposedly the remote checked out fine, so it looks like I have 2 problems here... one is not starting and two is something with the lower unit.
 
If the spline is different then that is off a 2 cylinder motor !!!-------Some sellers think that everything is the same !!
 
racerone said:
If the spline is different then that is off a 2 cylinder motor !!!-------Some sellers think that everything is the same !!
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's off of a 50hp, which is 2 cyl. I bought it for the solenoids tho, but now I'm not sure what the problem really is.
Is there a way the solenoids or "clutch dog" (I don't even know what that is...) could be allowing the unit to rotate in one direction but not the other?
 
????----The solenoids operate valves on the oil pump and have nothing to do / are not connected in any way to the rotating pieces !!!----------Remove the waterpump impeller and see how it rotates !!
 
racerone said:
????----The solenoids operate valves on the oil pump and have nothing to do / are not connected in any way to the rotating pieces !!!----------Remove the waterpump impeller and see how it rotates !!
Click to expand...

OK. Thanks! I will do that this evening.
Can't thank you guys enough... I know NOTHING about these, but have mechanical knowledge from 30 years of snowmobiles/motorcycles. Hopefully I can get this thing working!
So you think the waterpump is keeping it from rotating backwards? Whatever it is, it's a DEAD STOP. It rotates forward just fine, then the other way it does not budge.
 
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