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84 115 cant get it to fire up

looking in my book says read the decal on my engine to know the Maximum Advance.. it doesn't have the decal.. what would it be 28? that's what its on a 79 and they similar the same engine

and do I need to worry about this throttle pick up 3-5 degrees


I gonna see about picking up the spark tester not available at my local Canadian tire
 
ok so I was reading some other articles now I a bit confused

the joe reeves wot timing.. that's only for timing the engine to run at Full speed right has nothing to do with the timing at idle?
and did I set the linkage right in the pics

so all I could find
some people suggested carbs... but I put new carb kits on so cant be that.. and cleaned them well...
another suggested coils might not be giving a good enough spark... so that's I guess what that spark tester is for
and someone else said could be maybe the tiny hoses might be gummed up.. but would that be so if it is running and all 4 spark plugs are getting black so they do fire..

what be best educated guess... I still going to do the WOT timing but I think that's just for running wide open and not just idling issues

I gonna see if I can get some new tiny fuel line I guess. I have replaced the 2 top tiny hoses that go from each carb to the priming solenoid.. would the other tiny hoses matter?

and I gonna get this adjustable spark plug to see if the coils are giving a good enough strong spark
 
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ok I just did a test I uploading the video maybe you can verify

but what I found by semi running engine idle higher

is Cylinder 1 must not be getting enough fuel or coil isn't very strong maybe


spraying carb cleaner into the semi closed carbs... semi kills the engine not really as I guess its running higher.. rpms

but spraying in Cylinder 1... (top left ) she speeds up and doesn't kick back ... and I still get water out those 2 exhaust holes on the back is that normal?


so since the engine runs better spraying carb cleaner into that first cylinder would that be a plugged hose somewhere or coil pack would you say

I uploading video so ill post it later
 
here is video
https://youtu.be/9hQNDLFZUp8

i did try now at 7:30am i swapped out the coil packs and still cylinder 1 isnt firing but will if i spray carb cleaner in,,
but it must fire some as the spark plug is black and wet

i gonna try swapping out the spark plug from top to bottom see if that helps

as at higher rpm you really dont notice any kick back

also if you rev the high idle lever up she sluggish but then kicks up and runs fast and smooth so i turn it down runs smooth for a moment or two the starts kicking

i switching to a spray bottle of mixed fuel in it instead of carb cleaner dont wanna damage the engine
 
i swapped out the spark plugs and still cylinder one having issues
i removed the side jet screw but it didnt help i blew carb cleaner from pip in the entrance of the carb but didnt help

i took the top plate off but i didnt see nothing

would the jet be plugged or something??

as i did use carb cleaner and 110 psi air pressure to blow out all the holes
 
ya fun times eh

i never noticed any fuel on the intake of the carb for cylinder one.. but i think what you mean is after its run flip the carb open the butterfly to see if fuel in there.. as i havent noticed no spitting of fuel while it runs

they told me could be plugged or a gasket

ill tighten the carb up more and the top bypass cover screws

they have new gaskets as i did a rebuild kit couple weeks ago..

my one friend said he has a neighbour that has a sonic cleaner... you put the carb in the cleaning solution and sonic waves breaks up the dirt if any in the carb...

but ill try the re tigthening first


and the upper crank seal the 2 rubber rings i replaced as i rebuilt this engine from the ground up new rings pistons bored etc

but ill try tighter on the gaskets first
and re look for spitting fuel
 
A common mistake is to tighten the carb nuts too tight. I allways lightly surface the mounting flange on the carb/s and allways use a new gasket when mounting the carbs. pull them down slow and even to good and snug is all it takes, too tight will create a vacuum leak. On a glass table with 220 grit paper just pull the carb in one direction only until it all shines the same. It bends the ears when you torque the nuts too tight.



oh ok i ya i didnt tighten right down tight.. hard.. just snug before you replied i tightened the 4 bolts right down tight... the screws i tightned hard as i could as they screws
it still didnt help

i looked all 4 carbs are shooting gas out of the hole just behind the butterfly you can see while the butter fly closed... does that mean the carb is working right ? thats the spot that shoots the fuel
 
as for the gaskets.. i used new gaskets... and the book said to use oil so i just used motor oil on both sides of the gasket and then had tigthened on

when i put the reeds in they were all flush nothing bent up but ill try the hand trick right now and ill let u know
 
no spitting fuel but if i put my hand against the top carb it sucks my hand in doing same on bottom carb it doesnt suck has hard
is that normal or should they both be sucking my hand hard to the carb
 
it has backfired and it has even busted the moon key but i figured i didnt tigthen the fly wheel good and tight that caused that...
but replaced it just miss fires but ill re try the just running on 1 cylinder unplug the 3/4 and number 2 just a sec ill let you know
 
unhooked the connector to power 3/4 coils and i pulled the 2 spark plug off ... put fuel into cylinder 1 fires... but once its done she doesnt start.... and i have to boost battery as the starter wheel stuck in the flywheel right now cant get it down..

but ya wont even fire with the primer pressing it...
yet i did see gas shooting from the hole behind the butterfly when i had all 4 sparks plugged in and running kinda...

doesnt that mean its shooting gas

hmm
 
Have you done a cylinder drop test? While running pul one plug wire at a time and quickly put it back on the engine should respond on all four cylinders. You normally notice the change when yo put the plug wire back on. Use a good pair of insulated pliers so you dont get bit.


no i havent really as it keeps kicking and sometimes hard to keep engine running


now the bottom carbs i dont see the spitting fuel out of the carb out those holes... go figure yet still runs

i took a video

but my plyers are semi insulated ill give it a try
 
so i did the pull plug test
didnt notice engine running better or crappier

what i did notice is

cylinder 1 (top left) i heard little clicking
cylinder 2 (bottom left) i heard a stronger clicking
cylinder 3 (top right) i heard a very strong clicking
cylinder 4 (bottom right ) i heard a quiet clicking

does that help asses anything
 
putting hand on top carb trys to suck my hand in .. but the bottom carb doesnt and it doesnt smooth out the engine it still keeps missfiring
 
using mixed gas didnt help

but i did the same test with carb cleaner

each cylinder did fire for split second or i guess you call it a pop.. and then that was it
 
Pull the lower carb and surface the flange you should be able to use the same gasket I bet you find the ears on the carb are bent if you put a straight edge on it. Get it nice and flat and make sure both carbs open exactly the same time. Then check adjust engine sync again between throttle opening and timing advance. After you get it running good then you can check adjust max timing advance out on the water with a load on the prop.


ok ill take both carbs off and sand with 220 grit
ya I had the carbs open both same time but ill recheck... the cam roller center should be the center of the Line

not sure how to do the engine sinc and throttle opening timing advance just what it said on the joe reeves wot timing.. but that's for wide open..

so I hoping to post video what I did earlier... should be ready..

but sounds of it you think its sucking air then that's why its miss firing Ill post video as soon as I can
 
ah ok

no i never trouched the advanced set screw all i did was turn 1 full turn counter clockwise the idle set screw

this engine never ran right when i got it and then i got stuck on river it over heated weeds got in the intake..

so i rebuilt it piece by piece. so i stuck it all back on

but ill video tape once the carbs back on to make sure


and ok.. i wonder why this morning it was sucking fuel before i took the video all 4 ports i seen fuel coming out of the little hole by the butterflies...

here is the video i did earlier
https://youtu.be/DAIWlWi8HcY

and ill post the carbs after i took them off at least
 
ok ill give it a shot

so I guess the carbs aren't plugged just sucking air you think?

as for the oiling up what I ment was the book called not to use spray sealer but to use motor oil to oil both sides of the gasket before putting it on
so that's what I ment oil it up putting oil both sides of the gasket before I put it on..

but I can do that do it dry ya the 2 bottom nuts of each carb is a pain you cant get them off or use a socket

but ill re try tomorrow too hot to do anymore today in the sun..

and ill try the Key soilinode trick.. and by doing that what is that proving etc that it be a fuel pump issue or something?

I gonna take carbs apart and run a welding tip cleaner in the jets hopfully the the tip cleaners small enough
 
Be careful on the jets you dont want to ream them out a soft copper wire is all that is necessary. As far as using the primer properly helps on cold starts. Every engine is a little different you will get to know the motor and what works best for you. I have never heard of oiling the carb gaskets maybe someone here can confirm if it is necessary? I have cut down a open end wrench to get at some of those hard to get bolts but it is real important to tighten the carb down nice and even in a criss cross pattern for the four bolt carbs.

ah ok I asked also the machine shop they don't think its plugged as I had fuel coming out of the holes by the butterflys..
so I disassembled it going to take it into the machine shop tomorrow to take a double look then I going to re reassembled the parts back on...
I made couple gaskets hope the burs on it wont matter to much I tried to cut it off I used a drill to drill the holes in the gasket

as for gasket no worries ill put it on dry ... and ya I did that before criss cross but lets hope it works.... as in the book it mentioned not to use gasket sealer spray on the carb gaskets as it might plug the holes or so.. and said used a oil or so but ill do it dry

you have more experience then me and this book lol

ill do it tomorrow
 
ok so i sanded the carbs some and i put new gaskets i made on... machine shop said nope carbs are fine as i see fuel coming out of each hole..

just Cylinder 1 is miss firing i spray mixed gas into the port and she stops miss firing


machine shop says its out of time and needs them to service it


but how it is out of time you cant adjust the idlying timing just the wide open timing

what would be wrong

the only things i didnt swap out are the stator and the timerbase
 
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Ah Ihad book ordered. But in end they cant get it too old only up to 2004. And you buy a set of four at a time they told me

As for the carbs. They told me as long as I see fuel coming out the hole by the butterfly its getting fuel. As I used high pressure air. I do see light in the jet holes. Have to recheck those numbers

They asked if reeds were bent. But no they were flush

So I only have selco book as now I cant get book. They told me a 2004 book is 400 bucks let alon how much 84 would be

And how do I set the time I only read joe reves wot timing for when your at full tthrottle. The selco book talks about srtting timming but engine neefs to be running smoothly and at 5k rpms. Nothing about timing at idle
 
Ah. Ok. Motor runs good if I spray fuel in the cylinder one carb while it runs she backfires on that cylinder. Top carb sucts my hand strong bottom one doesnt suck my hand as hard. All four cylinders gets 115 psi. Yes crank shaft was replaced it was pitted. And inspected by the machineshop before I put it in. And they said if I had the pistons in backwards it wouldnt run sparkplug would hit the top of the cylinder. I had the slopes point inwards to center of engine. If I recall

Yes two is bit louder. Three is the loudest
If I pull a plug wire off the engine doesnt speed up or slow down. Stays same. The shop said its wanting to run. Said it needs service
All four carbs spray gas just under the butterfly s.

No havent got the spark tester yet. I just know they all spark grounded each one with spark plug and my friend seen spark. As well I had timing gun on each plug wire and she was flickering so I know its least sparking

I asked them if it be timer base or stator they said no. Just said engine out of time its a 90 30 engine for time. And I said I have flipped theplugs up and down . Told them I cant run across cylinders. But with engine running rough I couldnt get timing light to flicker on my mark I used liquid paper to mark the tdc

So not sure what else to try. No friends to help me so ill rig another switch and try the sparking myself
 
I may just take engine tonthe omc machine shop in today. Itried all you guys god advice and I truly appreciate it. Just dont know what else be wrong. I showed video. Ans they said irs not running bad just that missfire

If I do send in. Ill let you guys know what the problem is
 
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