1993 Force 90 HP reed body drain?

Hello everyone,

I have a 1993 Mercury Force 90 HP motor. On the intake manifold or reed body, there is a barbed fitting. When I purchased the boat and engine, there was nothing attached to that and there had obviously been a bit of oil or oil mist in that part of the cowl.

QUESTION: Is there supposed to be a hose or check valve or both connected to that barbed fitting? If so, where do I route it?

- Jeremy

What's the serial# ?
They came with 2 carb covers depending on the serial#
There is a small hose that goes from the bottom of the cover to the hose barb.
It picks up the excess fuel spit out of the carbs.
Pics?

Jerryjerry05 said:

What's the serial# ?
They came with 2 carb covers depending on the serial#
There is a small hose that goes from the bottom of the cover to the hose barb.
It picks up the excess fuel spit out of the carbs.
Pics?

Click to expand...

Serial: 0E019700



I looked for a place to feed the hose out... guess I need to look a little more closely.

- Jeremy

ok, so I attached a small chunk of fuel line and passed it through the lower air intake of the cowl (which was a bit of fun with the carbs and everything in the way as it was not a straight shot) and just cut it off sticking out about 1 inch from the bottom of the underside.

is there a check valve that is supposed to go there so that air, etc. doesn't get sucked in through that tube?

- Jeremy

No check valve.
Once you get that hooked to the cover(pics???) you'll need to reset the air screws.
Got a manual?

Thanks Jerry.

View attachment 11809View attachment 11810

As to "reset the air screws..." I'll give you a little background.

The boat and motor was manufactured in 1993. The original owner said it never ran quite right at WOT (at least in acceleration) as he would punch it and have to back off a little to get it to run properly. He said he could not get any mechanic to solve that problem. Then, in 1997, the motor died and had not run since. I purchased the boat from him a couple of months ago and discovered that the head gasket had blown at the middle cylinder, which let water into the cylinder, quenching the top ring, causing it to get brittle and crack, getting sheared off in the exhaust port and wrecking the piston.

The carbs had been worked on at some point and were super clean with all fuel lines replaced, so I have not messed with them at this point.

The previous owner said the engine may have had about 60 hours of use total, so instead of pulling the whole thing apart, I did a partial rebuild where I took the reed valves out, then pushed the top two pistons out and did a hone to clean up some minor corrosion on the cylinder walls from it sitting for so many years and not having been properly stored at that point. I replaced the middle piston.

Once things were re-assembled, the engine fired right up and sounded pretty good. As this has such low hours, I was simply going to take it out, head up river and see how it ran.

After reading your suggestion about the air screws and doing a search, seeing some of your posts on other forums, I am thinking that I should at least check the timing and compression.

The "manual" that I have is at http://boatinfo.no/lib/other/manuals/chrysler1565.html#/0 and appears to be a factory manual of sorts. As I did a non-standard rebuild, trying to leave adjustable things as they were, I have really only referenced small portions of the manual.

- Jeremy

Thanks Jerry.

View attachment 11809View attachment 11810

As to "reset the air screws..." I'll give you a little background.

The boat and motor was manufactured in 1993. The original owner said it never ran quite right at WOT (at least in acceleration) as he would punch it and have to back off a little to get it to run properly. He said he could not get any mechanic to solve that problem. Then, in 1997, the motor died and had not run since. I purchased the boat from him a couple of months ago and discovered that the head gasket had blown at the middle cylinder, which let water into the cylinder, quenching the top ring, causing it to get brittle and crack, getting sheared off in the exhaust port and wrecking the piston.

The carbs had been worked on at some point and were super clean, so I have not messed with them at this point.

The previous owner said the engine may have had about 60 hours of use total, so instead of pulling the whole thing apart, I did a partial rebuild where I took the reed valves out, then pushed the top two pistons out and did a hone to clean up some minor corrosion on the cylinder walls from it sitting for so many years and not having been properly stored at that point.

Once things were re-assembled, the engine fired right up and sounded pretty good. As this has such low hours, I was simply going to take it out, head up river and see how it ran.

After reading your suggestion about the air screws and doing a search, seeing some of your posts on other forums, I am thinking that I should at least check the timing and compression.

The "manual" that I have is at http://boatinfo.no/lib/other/manuals/chrysler1565.html#/0 and appears to be a factory manual of sorts. As I did a non-standard rebuild, trying to leave adjustable things as they were, I have really only referenced small portions of the manual.

- Jeremy

Hi Jerry,

I have tried posting twice, once this morning, and once a few minutes ago, but the forum says a moderator needs to look at it... in that post, I uploaded a couple of pics of how I routed the drain tube. hopefully it will show up some day :-/

We took it out for a maiden voyage on the river today. Started fine, then slowly I started accelerating... As I approached WOT, it began to bog. So, with some reading fresh in my mind, I started to attempt to set the idle jets. My attempts seemed to not really do anything and so we just putted around up-river. A few minutes went by and I decided to try it again. things worked and I was able to get up on plane. things still don't run quite right, but it sounds good and smooth and mostly works well.

My plan of attack is this:
1) pull the carbs and do a thorough cleaning - I did not originally touch them as everything looked like it had just been done (just being in 1997 or so when the boat was last run)
2) Check the timing
3) check compression (I should have already done this, but was excited to get on the water)
4) go back out on the water and be patient and actually do a proper job of setting the idle screws.

Part of the issue right now might be that I am running 25:1 mix as I replaced one of the pistons, so am in a bit of a break-in period. will I need to re-set the screws once I am running regular 50:1?

Also, in the other post, I gave a link to the "manual" I have been referencing on boatinfo.no (perhaps that link is why it needed a moderator), but I noticed today that it is for engines a bit older than mine as it talked about choke solenoid and setting the gap with paper, but mine has the enrichening type choke (fuel from the top bowl is injected directly into the reed body when an electric valve is opened). Any suggestions where I can find a proper shop manual?

Regards,

- Jeremy

I sent you a PM.
This site sells manuals.
You can probably find a "factory" manual on ebay. Lots of them there.

The air screws have no effect on anything other than slow speed operation.
They just set the air/fuel mix at idle. Set at 1 and 1/8th for initial setting.

Bogging under acceleration.
Sucking air, choke feeding fuel, clog in the lines.
The choke/ enricher has a diaphragm inside and it can go bad and feed too much fuel.
After its started. Pinch off the leads from the enricher and see if that makes a difference.

Fuel/ Ethanol. E's been melting and corroding older hoses and causing clogs in the carbs.
Change the hoses and install a filter between the pump and the carbs.

The original Force connectors are famous for leaking and sucking air.
I remove them and install OMC or Yam connectors if they are needed.
Otherwise I run a solid hose.
Since it's been setting so long, change the diaphragm in the fuel pump or rebuild depending on the type.
Change impeller and oil.

This was the original post that would not publish. I removed the link to the "manual" and it seems like it will post now.

Thanks Jerry.



As to "reset the air screws..." I'll give you a little background.

The boat and motor was manufactured in 1993. The original owner said it never ran quite right at WOT (at least in acceleration) as he would punch it and have to back off a little to get it to run properly. He said he could not get any mechanic to solve that problem. Then, in 1997, the motor died and had not run since. I purchased the boat from him a couple of months ago and discovered that the head gasket had blown at the middle cylinder, which let water into the cylinder, quenching the top ring, causing it to get brittle and crack, getting sheared off in the exhaust port and wrecking the piston.

The carbs had been worked on at some point and were super clean, so I have not messed with them at this point.

The previous owner said the engine may have had about 60 hours of use total, so instead of pulling the whole thing apart, I did a partial rebuild where I took the reed valves out, then pushed the top two pistons out and did a hone to clean up some minor corrosion on the cylinder walls from it sitting for so many years and not having been properly stored at that point.

Once things were re-assembled, the engine fired right up and sounded pretty good. As this has such low hours, I was simply going to take it out, head up river and see how it ran.

After reading your suggestion about the air screws and doing a search, seeing some of your posts on other forums, I am thinking that I should at least check the timing and compression.

- Jeremy

Jerryjerry05 said:

I sent you a PM.
This site sells manuals.
You can probably find a "factory" manual on ebay. Lots of them there.

Click to expand...

I've not heard good things about the Seloc manual - will look on Ebay

The air screws have no effect on anything other than slow speed operation.
They just set the air/fuel mix at idle. Set at 1 and 1/8th for initial setting.

Click to expand...

Idle is nice, albeit a little high - Intend to do the Force carb setup procedure pinned on iboats.com.

Bogging under acceleration.
Sucking air, choke feeding fuel, clog in the lines.
The choke/ enricher has a diaphragm inside and it can go bad and feed too much fuel.
After its started. Pinch off the leads from the enricher and see if that makes a difference.

Click to expand...

Sucking air - possible I suppose. I did not replace any of the gaskets as they all looked good. Also never split the reed body, so I did not look at the diaphragm. Will try the pinch-off to see if that makes any difference.

Fuel/ Ethanol. E's been melting and corroding older hoses and causing clogs in the carbs.
Change the hoses and install a filter between the pump and the carbs.

Click to expand...

All lines have been replaced, including all but one of the bleed lines (couldn't get at one side of one with the lower cowl and control rods on) - I did not want any old fuel and crap in there. I also only run premium which presumably has little to no ethanol in it.

The original Force connectors are famous for leaking and sucking air.
I remove them and install OMC or Yam connectors if they are needed.
Otherwise I run a solid hose.

Click to expand...

All have been changed out to screw-type clamps. Some of my clamps were a bit too heavy and don't apply equal force, I will replace. However, every time it bogged, we checked the priming bulb and it was always firm (new bulb btw).

[/QUOTE]Since it's been setting so long, change the diaphragm in the fuel pump or rebuild depending on the type.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I think I will pull that and have a look.

Change impeller and oil.

Click to expand...

Assuming you mean water pump impeller and lower unit oil, I changed both.

One final note: the original owner, when he was telling me of the engine issues, said it always bogged a bit at WOT and would have to be backed off. I am not exactly sure, but it seemed to me he meant in a hole-shot, not gradual acceleration. He said that none of the shop guys could ever get that fixed.

Thanks again for the replies and info.

- Jeremy

Bogging at wot could be something in the tank, the carbs out of sinc, timing off, fuel pump diaphragm bad, primer diaphragm bad and feeding too much fuel at wot, the hoses collapsing from Ethanol, the squeezie bad,(have found them bad right out of the box) the original Force/Chrysler connectors sucking air and more??
Get a can of starting fluid.
Start it and spray the fluid around the engine and see if it makes any difference in the motor running.
Also if there is an exhaust leak(even a small one) it can cause the gaggin at wot.

Jerryjerry05 said:

Bogging at wot could be something in the tank, the carbs out of sinc, timing off, fuel pump diaphragm bad, primer diaphragm bad and feeding too much fuel at wot, the hoses collapsing from Ethanol, the squeezie bad,(have found them bad right out of the box) the original Force/Chrysler connectors sucking air and more??
Get a can of starting fluid.
Start it and spray the fluid around the engine and see if it makes any difference in the motor running.
Also if there is an exhaust leak(even a small one) it can cause the gaggin at wot.

Click to expand...

- we removed the tank and sloshed it with successive liters of gasoline until what we emptied was clear. I also installed a water-separating fuel filter. when I initially primed from dry, the bulb had no problem sucking from the tank through the filter.

- Carbs were *slightly* out of sync, possibly. at least, there was slight tension that seemed to get released when I loosened off the screws.

- have yet to look at the fuel pump and primer diaphragms - will do if the problem persists after the other adjustments.

- Hoses are all new save one - all clamps replaced

- what defines a bad squeezie? mine is new and primes well.

- will try with the starter fluid - have a can for my 54 Fordson Major Diesel

- Exhaust leak from where? What is the best way to go about checking for that?

I checked timing at idle - was 3 or 4 degrees BTDC. I tried checking at cranking with WOT, but could not get a good trigger with all the plugs grounded - will check in the water. I am going to do the synchronize and timing following the instructions I found stickied over at iboats.com (actually I am on step 6 but need to go out to the water to do it and a few subsequent ones). As I was going to sleep last night, I was thinking about that ring getting sheared off in the exhaust port and it dawned on me that the flywheel key may be partially sheared - I will check the timing and if it is out and I cannot dial it in, I will check that.

I also checked compression: 109# top, 118# middle, 118# bottom. I had replaced the middle piston, honed the top and middle cylinders, and did some light 400 grit sanding at 30 to 45 degrees on the bottom cylinder to remove some surface corrosion.

My hope is that after doing the sync, timing, and carb idle setup, it will run fine, or at least run somewhat normal until I get on to regular 50:1 mix

another question: when it was bogging, it did so on acceleration into WOT, not once it reached WOT rpms. I would think fuel supply problems (hose, pump, etc.) would cause bogging after the motor sped up and was using more fuel causing the float bowls to drain, am I correct in my thinking?

- Jeremy

Another thing I just thought of: I believe this engine would have originally come with a sound attenuator - It was missing by the time I bought it. this brings up a few questions:

1) would the reed-body drain have connected to the sound attenuator?

2) If I get an attenuator, will I have to re-adust idle and such?

3) Is the attenuator a crucial part or can I run without it? The engine seems quite quiet as it is.

- Jeremy

In one of my first post I said you had 2 different carb covers.
I said the hose under the carb hooks to the bottom of the cover.
I guess I didn't catch the part about you sticking the hose through the bottom until now.
It should be adjusted with ANY changes.

Remove any foam in the hood. It can come loose and cause major failure.

The timing is done NOT running. See pics that's for grounding the plugs.
Get the manual and do it.Just need a timing light and a way to ground the plugs.
WOT timing is done under load and at full throttle Pretty dangerous too.

To figure out the right cover. You have the serial# Look up the parts diagrams that have that serial#

Yeah... in my mind I was thinking cover=hood. I removed the little hose for now. I will order a carb cover - they are about $40.

in the meantime, I managed to get my timing light to work at cranking speed, but had to dismantle the throttle control to disable the neutral safety, what a pain (is there an easier way when the safety in inside the throttle control?). Timing was more than 40 degrees BTDC at WOT. I backed it down to about 28, but I am thinking I should really pull the flywheel to check that key, I cannot think of why else it would be so off unless somebody messed with it at some point.

I got the idle air jets set up - it ended up being almost exactly 1 turn out from light seat.

Acceleration is a bit boggy if you go easy, but hole-shots are mostly clean with a nice, smooth rev up to top RPMs. I seem to be peaking out at about 4500 RPM, but I do not trust the tachometer as it is occasionally jumpy and went up over 6000 a couple of times without a noticeable pitch change from the motor. the pitch does not sound like I am getting 5000+ RPM yet. I have come to realize that this is a cheaply built boat, so the manufacturer may not have specified the correct prop for the motor for this boat. I need a new prop anyway, so will look at possibly changing the pitch once I am running on regular 50:1 mix.

Next steps:
1) check the intake bodies for air leaks (totally forgot to do that)
2) if no air leaks are apparent, pull the carbs and do a thorough clean.
3) pull the flywheel to check the shear-key

I'm happy enough with how it is running so far that it is out getting new trailer tires right now.

Regards,

- Jeremy

The throttle should be pushed all the way forward and the key on.
Plugs removed and the leads grounded.
Attach the light.
I use a jumper wire or jump box.
40d is a long way out.

Get a manual and follow the directions for static timing.