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2004 Honda Outboard 225HP Engine Light "ON"

S

Seachaser

Regular Contributor
Motor Baselines:

  • May 2015 - Water Pump Replaced
  • June 2015 - Engine mounted water separator drained and Fuel Filter replaced
  • June 19, 2015 Fuel added fresh ~30 Gallons Med and Hi Test Octane, to the already ~50 Gal. stabilized from last season (The main tank has capacity of 120 gallons).
  • June 2015, New Spark Plugs, IZFR6F11 (NGK) P/N 31916-ZY3-003,
  • I do not believe that Bulletin #56 Exhaust Tube replacement was performed.
  • VST (vapor separator tank) drained after every season, gas looked OK.
  • Motor has 1544 Hours
  • Cleared error using jumper and 5 times on/off sequence.
  • June 29, 2015 Replaced 35655-ZY3-013 SENSOR, OXYGEN (Honda Code 7183742), did not fix
  • Motor has 1549 Hours

Error Condition:
After either idle or slow trolling, ~ 1k RPM the Green Light “ON” along with steady Check Engine “Mil” light is lit "ON", steady beeping. The frequency of failure time is variable, it occurs between 20 minutes and 2 hours. When the error occurs I’ll shut the motor off, the alarm stops, motor starts up OK with no alarm. Within in a ~10-20 minutes time-frame check engine light back on. DTC-1 code read prior to replacing the O2 sensor today, did not have time to recheck it, but I suspect same code.

IMG_20150619_124304b.jpg

From my Shop Manual it displayed a DTC code “1” which indicates:


  • Disconnected H2OS Connector
  • Stale Fuel
  • Short or open Circuit in H2OS wire
  • Faulty H2OS (3655-ZY3-013, Honda Code 7183742) replaced 6/29/15 (FYI - Bulletin #56, Exhaust Pipes not sure if done?)
  • Spark Plug misfire (#4, 5 or 6)
  • Abnormally high fuel pressure (High Pressure Side)

NEXT: I just borrowed a portable 6 gallon gas tank, tomorrow I will run with fresh gas therefore by-passing the main fuel tank, maybe it's just stale fuel? Although on June 19th I did add 30 gallons of Med & Hi-Test Octane to the existing 50 gallons that was in the main tank. It did not seem to prevent the error, between that and what I read from other threads, that's why I went with the O2 sensor.

So far am I missing anything?
 
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Adding new fuel to stale fuel will not normally raise the octane sufficiently to fix that issue, so your strategy of hooking up a portable tank with new fuel is a very good first step.

Just a caution - 6 gallons may not be sufficient to test whether the error condition re-appears, so it would probably be a good idea to have another 5 gallons of fuel on board when you do make the test run. My 225 gobbles 20 gph at WOT, and 14 gph at 4400 rpm.

BTW - very nice layout of the issue in your initial post. Wish all the folks seeking help on this forum would do likewise.
 
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Thanks for the compliment on the layout. From my electrical engineering troubleshooting days.

The auxiliary gas tank did not fix the error, and yes I did have an extra 5 gallon backup. The problem seems to still occur while either idle or trolling with RPM's < 1k, engine runs fine cruising over 2k RPMs. Funny though I had it fixed, idling at the dock for 1 hr no problem thought I had it, as soon as I left dock in in slow troll bam, the engine light and alarm go on.

Not sure how much more time I can spend on this. I'll call my Honda dealer to see how long it will take to bring it in. I'll guess a couple of weeks. In which I'll try something else.

Question: if the "high fuel pressure" could be a potential contributor to the error, can the high pressure filter be check or swapped out while the boat is in the water? Or does it have to be hauled?




chawk_man said:
Adding new fuel to stale fuel will not normally raise the octane sufficiently to fix that issue, so your strategy of hooking up a portable tank with new fuel is a very good first step.

Just a caution - 6 gallons may not be sufficient to test whether the error condition re-appears, so it would probably be a good idea to have another 5 gallons of fuel on board when you do make the test run. My 225 gobbles 20 gph at WOT, and 14 gph at 4400 rpm.

BTW - very nice layout of the issue in your initial post. Wish all the folks seeking help on this forum would do likewise.
Click to expand...
 
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If you are getting an alarm, then there is a fault code. Check that again and see what code(s) you are getting. And, yes, you are correct to assume that the HP fuel filter could be the culprit. It often is on these engines.

If you can check the fuel pressure at the service check bolt on the top of the HP filter, the manual says it should be between 41 and 48 psi.

If you can comfortably get behind the engine, you could probably carefully swap it out. However, you need to remove the upper cowling, and that is a bunch of bolts that can potentially drop into the drink. Personally, I would not attempt it if I absolutely didn't need to.

To change out the HP filter, relieve the fuel pressure by loosening the service check bolt, and typically that will spill fuel. So be prepared for that. The service relieve bolt is on the right side of the plate that covers the HP filter, as you are facing it. Also, manual says that you need to replace the washer on that bolt, but I don't always do that.

There are three 5 mm screws on the cover plate. Remove those and you have access to the filter. Be very carful about the spring behind the filter and the washer in front of the filter. Make sure you also replace the O ring that seals the plate to the filter body.

If you are going to attempt this in-the-water then try to rig a bib under the motor to catch stuff that might drop.
 
All good stuff here, I may give it a try.



chawk_man said:
If you are getting an alarm, then there is a fault code. Check that again and see what code(s) you are getting. And, yes, you are correct to assume that the HP fuel filter could be the culprit. It often is on these engines.

If you can check the fuel pressure at the service check bolt on the top of the HP filter, the manual says it should be between 41 and 48 psi.

If you can comfortably get behind the engine, you could probably carefully swap it out. However, you need to remove the upper cowling, and that is a bunch of bolts that can potentially drop into the drink. Personally, I would not attempt it if I absolutely didn't need to.

To change out the HP filter, relieve the fuel pressure by loosening the service check bolt, and typically that will spill fuel. So be prepared for that. The service relieve bolt is on the right side of the plate that covers the HP filter, as you are facing it. Also, manual says that you need to replace the washer on that bolt, but I don't always do that.

There are three 5 mm screws on the cover plate. Remove those and you have access to the filter. Be very carful about the spring behind the filter and the washer in front of the filter. Make sure you also replace the O ring that seals the plate to the filter body.

If you are going to attempt this in-the-water then try to rig a bib under the motor to catch stuff that might drop.
Click to expand...
 
I replaced the high pressure filter while in the water, not too bad. I made sure I took my time and not drop anything. I'm still getting the Alarm though.

Also ran Seafoam with ~2 gallons of gas for ~20 minutes, did not see any smoke I'll let it sit overnight and run again tomorrow.
IMG_20150705_162647~2.jpg
 
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Today, I ran the rest of the seafoam mix, never did I see any white smoke. I know I had more gas ratio than I've read other people use, just thought I'd see some smoke. And the engine light is still coming on. Always low rpms.

Also without a fuel pressure gauge I was unable to measure the high pressure fuel compression yesterday.

Please note: There has been black soot around my exhaust tubes. Before and after the engine light coming on. I do run this motor most in trolling mode.

Spoke with my Honda dealer he wants to put in new version O2, new version manifold (has relocated port for sensor) and reprogram the ECM. Also, new version exhaust tubes $$$$, and NO guarantee to fix the engine light problem, geez!
 
I would tell the dealer to find the problem with the MIL light coming on first. Then we will talk about the upgrades. Right now he/she is just shooting in the dark. If they have the Honda Diagnostic System (HDS - AKA "Dr. H") they should be able to pinpoint the problem very quickly.

For decarbing, the Seafoam mixture should be 4:1 or 5:1 using an auxiliary (portable) tank.

How long have you had this engine. If for a long time and you have had no precious problem with the HO2 sensor because of the old style exhaust tubes, then you are not likely to have it now. Having said that, the black soot on the exhaust outlets COULD be a sign of a failed HO2 sensor. But I see that you just changed that out. Although a failed HO2 sensor will not always give off an alarm, it will throw a fault code 1 if you get around to pulling the fault codes.

IK was not aware that there had been a modification to the design of the manifolds on these engines. But that is why I stay active on this forum to find out about that stuff.

Pull the fault codes before taking to the dealer. It's very simple to do.
 
CHAWK,

Good Stuff, I appreciate your info!

I'm familiar with the process of installing the diagnostic jumper and observing the error code. The fault code has been consistently showing, what I believe is a "1" code as indicated in my first message. The red engine "check" light flashes once then I think is ~2 secs off then repeats the cycle. See video:
what do you think?

Also, the same fault code comes back after clearing it.


FYI: I can recreate this error simply by slow idling a bit and shift to slow troll (low rpms). Sometimes it just happens in the low RPM idle mode.

"How long have you had this engine. If for a long time and you have had no precious problem with the HO2 sensor because of the old style exhaust tubes, then you are not likely to have it now". I purchased the Boat/Motor(2004) in 2011 with 865 hours on it (it now Has ~1550 hours) without any previous HO2 sensor problem. This spring while on jack stands with water muffs, I believe this error first occurred. At that time I thought it was due to the low house water pressure so I did not pursue it.
 
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The soot was coming from the bad O2 sensor, once you changed it and ran sea foam I'm guessing it's from all the loosened carbon coming out exhaust. Mine did that also, and mine is still beeping. How does the boat run? Can you get it over 5k rpm?
 
OK. That looks like a code 1 to me. If a code 10 the MIL light should blink rather rapidly 10 times, then pause, and repeat.

I see that you replaced the HO2 sensor less than two weeks ago and replaced the plugs in June of this year, and that did not fix the problem. I assume that you made sure that the connection to the HO2 sensor is clean and secure. Also, check the 4 prong connector for any corrosion or bad pins.

Looking at the diagnostic procedure on page 5-26 of the Helm shop manual, the first step is to check the fuel pressure. Beyond that. I'm at a dead end also.
 
Skooter said:
The soot was coming from the bad O2 sensor, once you changed it and ran sea foam I'm guessing it's from all the loosened carbon coming out exhaust. Mine did that also, and mine is still beeping. How does the boat run? Can you get it over 5k rpm?
Click to expand...

Yes I can get over 5k, seems OK, only lowest throttle position rpm 700, a little rough and sometimes shifting in gear might cut out, but not always. Once I rev up I'll say over 1k rpms seems good.
 
chawk_man said:
OK. That looks like a code 1 to me. If a code 10 the MIL light should blink rather rapidly 10 times, then pause, and repeat.

I see that you replaced the HO2 sensor less than two weeks ago and replaced the plugs in June of this year, and that did not fix the problem. I assume that you made sure that the connection to the HO2 sensor is clean and secure. Also, check the 4 prong connector for any corrosion or bad pins.

Looking at the diagnostic procedure on page 5-26 of the Helm shop manual, the first step is to check the fuel pressure. Beyond that. I'm at a dead end also.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure what I need to measure the fuel pressure. I only have compression tester. Can that be adapted?
 
I have a Honda Fuel pressure gauge hose 07406-004020B on order, I'll adapt one of my gauges to it. It should be here by Thursday.

Since getting a compression tester that was at least 25 PSI off, I've shy'd away from using the Harbor Freight Gauges.

Skooter said:
Harbor freight sells a fuel pressure test kit http://www.harborfreight.com/master-fuel-injection-pressure-test-kit-97706.html I'm not sure how well it works. I know the fitting is 6mm. I've thought about buying one to test mine.
Click to expand...
 
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Seachaser said:
I have a Honda Fuel pressure gauge hose 07406-004020B on order, I'll adapt one of my gauges to it. It should be here by Thursday.

Since getting a compression tester that was at least 25 PSI off, I've shy'd away from using the Harbor Freight Gauges.
Click to expand...
I bought a harborfreight fuel pressure tester this past weekend. The quality is pretty decent and has a vast number of applications. I was able to test my fuel pressure on my engine (which is having similar issues as yours) and I am getting 90 psi, way over the normal range. Just to be sure the gauge was reading "right" I put it on my good motor, the counter rotation and was getting 41 psi..I am happy with the pressure tester. Now I need to trouble shoot my issue. Keep us posted
 
Skooter,

I have my fuel pressure hose comming Thursday. Just curious, did the harbor freight kit have the 6mm port in it or did you need an adapter?

On your problem,
I assume you'll be looking into the fuel pump next?

Skooter said:
I bought a harborfreight fuel pressure tester this past weekend. The quality is pretty decent and has a vast number of applications. I was able to test my fuel pressure on my engine (which is having similar issues as yours) and I am getting 90 psi, way over the normal range. Just to be sure the gauge was reading "right" I put it on my good motor, the counter rotation and was getting 41 psi..I am happy with the pressure tester. Now I need to trouble shoot my issue. Keep us posted
Click to expand...
 
It came with a 6mm adapter and a bunch of others.. I like the Honda outboard, so I think it would be a handy tool to have in my box. I am going to look at the hoses and the pressure regulator tonight..I'll keep you updated when I find the culprit
 
I also have a low gas level in my LP Fuel Filter Bowl along with surging at Idle. All the hoses have only the single Honda hose clips on them, has anyone updated theirs or added backups?



Ran hose bypassing LP Fuel Filter Bowl and Engine mounted water separator. I though I had it but within ~5 minutes idle surge came back, it seems random.

Still waiting for UPS to deliver my gauge to check out my Fuel Pressure.

 
With the pressure gauge installed, motor sitting overnight, testing fuel pressure. Starting value was was 48 psi, within 30 minutes slowly increased to 90 psi. About ~35 minutes later check light on and the DTC "1" is back.
 
I had same problem check fuel pressure regulator screen, it on the fuel rail.Spray it with carb cleaner, if problem not solved, it may be your regulator or a kinked line
 
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Skooter said:
I had same problem check fuel pressure regulator screen, it on the fuel rail.Spray it with carb cleaner, if problem not solved, it may be your regulator or a kinked line
Click to expand...

Trying to determine where this is and if I can do it while myboat is on the water. I have one of the lower (cable side) cowling off, it has allowed me to do the fuel pressure test.
 
You will need to remove the intake manifold and the fpr will be on the port side fuel rail on the top. You don't need to take off fuel rail, it's accessible with a 10mm wrench. Once fpr is removed, you will see the screen.
 
OK I got it, screen looks OK, but the Fuel Pump low pressure side, the plunger is stiff. My shop manual 5-121 says if stiff replace it.
 
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