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2004 Honda Outboard 225HP Engine Light "ON"

A few photo's of today.

We're having fun now! I hope I get it back together correctly...

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Photo of the Fuel Pump Regulator Screen, as I stated earlier it looked ok to me.

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I also removed the Fuel Pump and when I pushed the plunger in it felt real stiff. It moves in and out just takes some force to do it. Since this is the first time I've done this I don't really know what good is? I did bring it home and as Skooter recommended I sprayed it with Carb Cleaner. Still feels very hard to push the plunger in and it does spring back. Next, I need to open it up and see whats going on, but first have to get the right Security Torx Bit driver (star bit with hollow center)

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Ok, today I opened up the Fuel Pump (Low Pressure Side) and found some salt crystals on the edge of the diagram. And thought I had my smoking gun, but NOT! see photo.

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I cleaned it up and popped it back in.

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Unfortunately It did not fix my issues, still getting the DTC Code "1", and I'll bet that the fuel pressure is still ramping up to 90 psi S/B 41~48 psi. It was getting late and I did not have the energy to reinstall the gauge to verify.

Also it starts to surge if I give it the slightest bit of throttle. If I start the motor and leave it at the lowest throttle (700 rpms) it does not surge. It only surges when I give it a little, say to 1000 rpms.
 
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I know on cars there's a return line from the fuel rail, and these motors are basically car motors. When the fuel pressure gets high the return is the 'purge' to relieve it, sort of. Have you done any troubleshooting of the fuel return line(s)?
 
OK, after re-reading through Skooter's thread and PM he did ultimately have a bad pressure regulator. I've have experienced very similar problems and conditions, i.e. 90 PSI fuel pressure.

For this "high" fuel pressure problem my manual says to check the following: The Fuel Pump then the Pressure Regulator. Now, I think my pump is ok, so at this time all arrows point to the ===> pressure regulator.

Yesterday, I did remove it but just to inspect the Mesh "Screen" Fuel Filter, which it looked clean. I wish I would have sprayed the Mesh "Screen" Fuel Filter with Carb Cleaner at that time as Skooter told me too. Oh Well, I'll have it ready next time I take it apart. Now as I read the Shop manual page 5-100 it goes through some basic tests for that regulator. It looks like to do this test the Intake Manifold assy's have to be off. Is this true? Does anyone have experience performing this testing on the pressure regulator?


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yamaham said:
I know on cars there's a return line from the fuel rail, and these motors are basically car motors. When the fuel pressure gets high the return is the 'purge' to relieve it, sort of. Have you done any troubleshooting of the fuel return line(s)?
Click to expand...

No I have not, I'll look in the manual and try to get familiar with that section. Looks like it gets plumbed back into the Vapor Separator?.......

But first I'll focus on the Pressure Regulator functionality.
 
I was going to mention to you to pull the return line that dives to the top of the vapor separator. To do this you can loosen cowl on SB side and remove the three bolts to VST then you can proceed to make sure line is not plugged/kinked. As for testing regulator you can do it with intake on
 
Here's my update:

Fuel Pressure Too High Issue ==> 90 PSI, possibly causing my code "1": Went to my local Honda Service and ordered a new Pressure Regulator and Mesh Fuel Filter/o-ring. I figured if I have to take the time and take this apart again, I want new parts in hand to replace with. I consider it a small dollar value vs my time. So, the plan now is to wait till Wednesday when the Pressure Regulator parts are in and replace it then. Stay Tuned........

Now for my Surging Issue at low RPMS: Please note; During startup, if the throttle is left at it lowest point (~700 RPM's) NO problem is apparent. As soon as I increase it slightly to say 900 RPM's it starts to surge between 800-1100 RPM's.

Once again, I thought I had another smoking gun when I opened up my Throttle Body Assy. Evidently the rubber belts below the silencer have a tendency (at least in my case) to shed fragments of rubber belt into the silencer and therefore get sucked into the Throttle Body and then the Intake Air Manifold. I cleaned the associated Throttle Body Assy's (IAC, TP Sensor, IAT, Throttle Valve and orifices etc.) with Carb Cleaner. Once again it did not fix my surging issue, but never the less had to be cleaned up and I can cross it off of the list of potential root causes. FYI:The local Honda Service guy did mention he just fix another guys surging engine doing this.

LP Fuel Filter Bowl Issue Gas level too low: I'll try to splice my clear tube between the LP Fuel filter and Fuel/Water Check bowl tomorrow.

Today's conclusion: Low Idle Surging: I'm thinking some type of air infiltration somewhere into either the Gas Line System or Air Input System. Also, After cleaning the throttle Body Assy the flapper moved very smoothly, so I'll rule out any mechanical binding. But there is still a potential for the Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) gizmo to be Faulty, I need to figure how to test that part or verify functionality.
 
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i tried to append to MY last post but I exceeded the 60 minute edit allowed time frame:

I wanted to mention along with the Low idle surging conclusion that on July 16th, I did by-pass the LP Fuel filter and Fuel/Water Check bowl and ran my auxiliary tank into the metal gas input and still had the low idle surging issue.

AuxillaryTankHonda.jpg
 
How do your spark plugs look? Do they have black soot? All of mine had black on them, I was thinking probably because of the 90 psi and making it run rich, therefore setting off the code "1" on mine. BTW did you order the hds?
 
I haven't check recently (just installed and gapped them in June) maybe add that to the list tomorrow, I'd guess too that they are sooted up. As for the diagnostics tool I am still trying to decide which one the to buy, see my PM.

Skooter said:
How do your spark plugs look? Do they have black soot? All of mine had black on them, I was thinking probably because of the 90 psi and making it run rich, therefore setting off the code "1" on mine. BTW did you order the hds?
Click to expand...
 
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Seachaser said:
Here's my update:

Fuel Pressure Too High Issue ==> 90 PSI, possibly causing my code "1": Went to my local Honda Service and ordered a new Pressure Regulator and Mesh Fuel Filter/o-ring. I figured if I have to take the time and take this apart again, I want new parts in hand to replace with. I consider it a small dollar value vs my time. So, the plan now is to wait till Wednesday when the Pressure Regulator parts are in and replace it then. Stay Tuned........

Now for my Surging Issue at low RPMS: Please note; During startup, if the throttle is left at it lowest point (~700 RPM's) NO problem is apparent. As soon as I increase it slightly to say 900 RPM's it starts to surge between 800-1100 RPM's.

Once again, I thought I had another smoking gun when I opened up my Throttle Body Assy. Evidently the rubber belts below the silencer have a tendency (at least in my case) to shed fragments of rubber belt into the silencer and therefore get sucked into the Throttle Body and then the Intake Air Manifold. I cleaned the associated Throttle Body Assy's (IAC, TP Sensor, IAT, Throttle Valve and orifices etc.) with Carb Cleaner. Once again it did not fix my surging issue, but never the less had to be cleaned up and I can cross it off of the list of potential root causes. FYI:The local Honda Service guy did mention he just fix another guys surging engine doing this.

LP Fuel Filter Bowl Issue Gas level too low: I'll try to splice my clear tube between the LP Fuel filter and Fuel/Water Check bowl tomorrow.

Today's conclusion: Low Idle Surging: I'm thinking some type of air infiltration somewhere into either the Gas Line System or Air Input System. Also, After cleaning the throttle Body Assy the flapper moved very smoothly, so I'll rule out any mechanical binding. But there is still a potential for the Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) gizmo to be Faulty, I need to figure how to test that part or verify functionality.
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Regarding IAC, Clymer manual states disconnect both battery cables, unplug IAC motor harness connector, test for 10-13 ohms across its terminals. Now touch the negative probe to engine ground and pos probe to either IAC terminal, should get open circuit OR very high resistance. If either of those tests fails, replace IAC. Clean all electrical connectors when reconnecting.
 
Cool I will do that tomorrow. Thanks!

yamaham said:
Regarding IAC, Clymer manual states disconnect both battery cables, unplug IAC motor harness connector, test for 10-13 ohms across its terminals. Now touch the negative probe to engine ground and pos probe to either IAC terminal, should get open circuit OR very high resistance. If either of those tests fails, replace IAC. Clean all electrical connectors when reconnecting.
Click to expand...
 
Folks - This may sound strange, but how are you gapping iridium-tipped plugs? They have a single, almost needle-like point in the center. If your plugs are NGK ZFR6F11, you have the wrong plug. They need to be NGK IZFR6F11. Note the "I" in front of the Z. That is for iridium. You'll pay $18 to $22 each for them.
 
This is what I replaced mine with:

NEW NGK HONDA SPARK PLUGS P/N 31916-ZY3-003 IZFR6F11
HondaPlugs.JPG

I basically checked the gap to make sure it was within the 0.039~0.043 spec as my shop manual states on page 3-6.
 
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OK. That is the correct plug. Hope I didn't get you cranked over that post.

I was once told to never try to re-gap an iridium-tipped plug. Perhaps that was bad info.

Anyway, I have known of several cases where an owner walks into a auto parts store, orders NGK IZFR6F11 plugs and is sold the standard ZFR6F11 plugs. Even happened to me once.

BTW - I just noticed yesterday that you can get the NGK IZFR6F11's on Amazon Prime for $7.25 each. That is a heck of a savings from an over-the-counter parts store.
 
chawk_man said:
OK. That is the correct plug. Hope I didn't get you cranked over that post.

I was once told to never try to re-gap an iridium-tipped plug. Perhaps that was bad info.

Anyway, I have known of several cases where an owner walks into a auto parts store, orders NGK IZFR6F11 plugs and is sold the standard ZFR6F11 plugs. Even happened to me once.

BTW - I just noticed yesterday that you can get the NGK IZFR6F11's on Amazon Prime for $7.25 each. That is a heck of a savings from an over-the-counter parts store.
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Just be cautious, my co-worker just received his plug order from Amazon for a Buick and he got 4 different plugs for a v6. Check them over carefully.
 
IAC measures 13 ohms across terminals and no shorts to ground. Check..


yamaham said:
Regarding IAC, Clymer manual states disconnect both battery cables, unplug IAC motor harness connector, test for 10-13 ohms across its terminals. Now touch the negative probe to engine ground and pos probe to either IAC terminal, should get open circuit OR very high resistance. If either of those tests fails, replace IAC. Clean all electrical connectors when reconnecting.
Click to expand...
 
Seachaser said:
IAC measures 13 ohms across terminals and no shorts to ground. Check..
Click to expand...

Perfect, now you know the IAC is functional. I don't remember if you pulled the IAC assembly off but I think there's a screen/filter under it and Honda recommends replacing the o-rings.
 
I got a little break-through for the surging issue: if I unplug the vacuum tubing from Pressure Regulator "T" and top of the manifold my surge settles out. Tomorrow if my Pres Regulator comes in I'm hoping replacing it does the trick. The other end of the "T" Looks like it goes down to the Vaporizer Separator Assy. I hope the problem isn't there.
 
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OK, I replaced the Fuel Regulator and also cleaned (with Carburetor Cleaner) the Mesh Screen filter and my fuel pressure is finally within spec ~4x something psi. I didn't replace the replace the mesh screen. Because it did not get delivered and I new the solution was close, so I cleaned the existing one instead.

In addition to the normal fuel pressure the low throttle surging has also gone away, and I didn't get a chance to run it more than 20 minutes but I suspect that my error code "1" may also be gone. I will give a full test run tomorrow.

My suspicion is that the real problem here is the Mesh Screen at output of the pressure regulator is clogged and I wasn't able to determine this by eye the other day. Today when I sprayed it with carburetor cleaner the mesh screen color changed from amber-ish to silver-ish. And the residue on the cloth was amber. Maybe clogged causing the back pressure? or I could have just had a bad Press. Reg..

Just for mind sake; off season I'll swap back the old P.R. and test it.......

Keep in mind I still have that low gas level on the LP filter bowl, but it seemed to run pretty good idling, run up to 2k rpms and also kicking it into gear while tied up in my slip.

Does any of this sound familiar? Skooter......
 
Please let us all know how it worked under full test load on the water. This has been an interesting saga. I do not recall any previous posts besides Skooter's, where the fuel regulator was the culprit on the 200/225 Honda's. In fact, I didn't even know there was a screen in there. Live and learn! That's why I try to stay active on this forum.
 
Seachaser said:
OK, I replaced the Fuel Regulator and also cleaned (with Carburetor Cleaner) the Mesh Screen filter and my fuel pressure is finally within spec ~4x something psi. I didn't replace the replace the mesh screen. Because it did not get delivered and I new the solution was close, so I cleaned the existing one instead.

In addition to the normal fuel pressure the low throttle surging has also gone away, and I didn't get a chance to run it more than 20 minutes but I suspect that my error code "1" may also be gone. I will give a full test run tomorrow.

My suspicion is that the real problem here is the Mesh Screen at output of the pressure regulator is clogged and I wasn't able to determine this by eye the other day. Today when I sprayed it with carburetor cleaner the mesh screen color changed from amber-ish to silver-ish. And the residue on the cloth was amber. Maybe clogged causing the back pressure? or I could have just had a bad Press. Reg..

Just for mind sake; off season I'll swap back the old P.R. and test it.......

Keep in mind I still have that low gas level on the LP filter bowl, but it seemed to run pretty good idling, run up to 2k rpms and also kicking it into gear while tied up in my slip.

Does any of this sound familiar? Skooter......
Click to expand...

Your scenario is exactly like mine, it was a booger for me to figure it out.. I kept thinking it was an electrical problem connected to O2 sensor, wiring or ecm. Looks like you got it fixed. In my case I had a clogged screen and bad regulator. Hope this helps others in the future.
 
Engine ran fine today, no cutouts, no surging, no engine light. I ran it for 6 hours, mostly trolling, run up to 5K rpms, I never tried WOT, but I'm sure it would be OK.

Thanks to all your inputs, especially Skooter, CHawk_Man, yamaham, I learned a lot and this message boards web site was invaluable.

There still is the issue with the LP Filter bowl not filling to full capacity, but it didn't seem to effect my performance. If I get some time I'll look into it. For now I need to get back FISHING!

I'm just glad I did not have to go into the VST, I will make a point to opener up during the off season. Might be nice to work on this motor on dry land.

I believe that the root cause of my problems is do to the mesh screen filter being clogged. I won't know for sure until I put back the original pressure regulator. Maybe in the spring.
 
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