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1994 Honda bf9.9a/15a crankcase breather issues?

THAT SU(KS!!

I'm really sorry that it is STILL screwing up!

I went back and read this WHOLE thread again....and...a couple of things jumped out at me.
At one point...Mike asked if this happens at idle...high speed...or both. You replied...
..."ONLY AT IDLE. RUNS GOOD OTHERWISE".

Mike then went on to suggest that the timing advance mechanism may be sticking and suggested you check that. Did you?

Logic says it may NOT be the CDI. The CDI has to switch current to fire the coils at idle AND at high speed. If the engine runs well at higher RPMs, that "sort of" tells us that it's doing what it's supposed to do. UNLESS....you aren't checking it for missing at high rpms when it acts up at idle because you are so focused on the idle problem itself. so...

When it acts up at idle....can you get it throttled up and have it run fine at higher rpms? If so, I would say that points AWAY from the CDI itself.

I wish I knew more about how exactly the CDI functions internally but...it is a sealed "mystery box" that only an electronics engineer could fathom. There IS a test procedure for it but I have never done it.
 
THAT SU(KS!!

I'm really sorry that it is STILL screwing up!

I went back and read this WHOLE thread again....and...a couple of things jumped out at me.
At one point...Mike asked if this happens at idle...high speed...or both. You replied...
..."ONLY AT IDLE. RUNS GOOD OTHERWISE".

Mike then went on to suggest that the timing advance mechanism may be sticking and suggested you check that. Did you?

Logic says it may NOT be the CDI. The CDI has to switch current to fire the coils at idle AND at high speed. If the engine runs well at higher RPMs, that "sort of" tells us that it's doing what it's supposed to do. UNLESS....you aren't checking it for missing at high rpms when it acts up at idle because you are so focused on the idle problem itself. so...

When it acts up at idle....can you get it throttled up and have it run fine at higher rpms? If so, I would say that points AWAY from the CDI itself.

I wish I knew more about how exactly the CDI functions internally but...it is a sealed "mystery box" that only an electronics engineer could fathom. There IS a test procedure for it but I have never done it.
No I haven't been able to find the timing advance spring mechanizim or is mine electronic , yesterday it was running at approx. 1200 rpm when it started doing it
does the regulator / rectifier have anything to do with this or is it just part of the charging circuit
 
I wonder if I should re-do the valves I set them in the middle of the specified range , maybe I should try at the upper end of the range ,then if that don't work try the lower end of range
 
I guess I misspoke it happens a low to mid range rpm
Ok I missed a test step that JGMA suggested and that was sprit zing the carb cleaner around the intake manifold and where the carb joins on as well and it is definatley leaking as it drops rpm when I spray.
that sucks if my problems where caused by a 12.00 gasket all along --rats --have to order gasket and will change thermostat while I'm at it
So to much air getting in there is the issue ..so I guess the air is getting in past the carb and going directly into the cylinder ???? Well I'll be dammed hope this is it
Simon
 
Did a rookie error when I took the regulator/rectifier off and didn't note where the 2 grey wires coming off the stator hook up too -- got It back together where I believe they go and it runs nice had it running at medium to high throttle for 10 min sounding real good go down to idle and start to throttle up again and it's start a shaking and won't go above about say 500 rpm -- air getting in and throwing it off???
Wonder if it will make a difference if I have the 2 grey wire hooked up wrong on the regulator / rectifier ,can I be doing any damage -- guess I can disconnect the leads from my battery in the boat and see if it's coming out as 13 volts??
 
The grey lead connects to the grey leads. It does not matter which on to connect.

If you disconnect the battery, you will not get an output on the cables. The regulator/rectifier needs the battery to provide an output.

It sounds like you have a plan. The magnetics that I was referring to, may be under the cam pulley.....or I could be confusing it with the 8 HP. I know they are under that one.

Anyway, the rectifier is totally separate circuitry from the ignition circuits. You could take the rectifier out and the only thing that will happen is it will not charge the battery and your electric start will not work.

Mike
 
Changing that gasket is a good idea with the results you got using the carb spray. BUT, make sure that the intake itself is not cracked in that area. The reason I suspect that it MIGHT be is that your descriptions of WHEN it is acting up have been at the 10 minute mark or so.

The problem seems to be heat related in that case and we all know metal expands and contracts with temperature fluctuations. A crack in the manifold may be opening up as the engine warms and then closing again as it cools down.
Maybe...maybe not. But I thought I'd throw that out there.

Good luck....again.
 
Changing that gasket is a good idea with the results you got using the carb spray. BUT, make sure that the intake itself is not cracked in that area. The reason I suspect that it MIGHT be is that your descriptions of WHEN it is acting up have been at the 10 minute mark or so.

The problem seems to be heat related in that case and we all know metal expands and contracts with temperature fluctuations. A crack in the manifold may be opening up as the engine warms and then closing again as it cools down.
Maybe...maybe not. But I thought I'd throw that out there.

Good luck....again.
Thanks for the tip will look closely at it when I have it off
when I do the gaskets I usually use aviation type gasket sealer along with the gasket any opinions on this
 
I wouldn't use anything on the gasket...not just yet anyway. There is nothing wrong with using a sealer but since you are still in the midst of trying to figure out what's making it run poorly, you may actually need to reuse that gasket one more time. Either that or make copies of the new one out of gasket material before using it.
I hope this does the trick.
 
I wouldn't use anything on the gasket...not just yet anyway. There is nothing wrong with using a sealer but since you are still in the midst of trying to figure out what's making it run poorly, you may actually need to reuse that gasket one more time. Either that or make copies of the new one out of gasket material before using it.
I hope this does the trick.
Did the intake manifold gasket new gaskets on the carb had it running nice at a steady approx. 1000 rpm ran for 10 min then starts the shaking again ARRRRRG
 
Did the intake manifold gasket new gaskets on the carb had it running nice at a steady approx. 1000 rpm ran for 10 min then starts the shaking again ARRRRRG
Time for a new CDI unit I guess it's the last thing to change then it goes on the scrap pile
tried all the contacts on the chi with ohm meter can't get any reading would the engine run with the chi being faulty?
 
Ok after installing new coil ,new carb , new intake manifold gasket , new thermostat , new fuel filter it started doing it again after it warmed up , I,ve narrowed it down to CDI it has to be ,anyway I had played with the plug before and cleaned the contacts as Honda dude had suggested earlier and nothing I was depressed and watching it shake and gave the CDI an aggressive wiggle and away it went. So it was the CDI socket all along , I cut little pieces out of a ring connector and stuffed them inside the socket to tighten it up and voila. Have all those new parts and it running like a champ , I was so happy I bought a mini tach for it. Cost me 600 bucks and I learnt a lot about motors
Thanks for everyone's help
 
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
THAT is some GOOD NEWS!!!!!!
If they had a fireworks app on here, I'd be using it right now!

You went through the wringer (and a few $$) but you stuck it out and FINALLY got rewarded.

Now, shrink wrap those old, spare parts and put them someplace safe. You won't regret having them around some day.

Also, your efforts, through this post, will probably REALLY make a difference for some poor guy having the same problem.

GOODONYA and

Congratulations!
 
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
THAT is some GOOD NEWS!!!!!!
If they had a fireworks app on here, I'd be using it right now!

You went through the wringer (and a few $$) but you stuck it out and FINALLY got rewarded.

Now, shrink wrap those old, spare parts and put them someplace safe. You won't regret having them around some day.

Also, your efforts, through this post, will probably REALLY make a difference for some poor guy having the same problem.

GOODONYA and

Congratulations!
Thanks for all your help , here's a funny part of it after reading about adjusting valves and how critical it was as in having to tight of a gap and damaging piston I did it and checked them twice and said this is it was in the back of boat crossed my chest and fired it up it ran for 10 seconds and then I hear a loud bang bang noise my heart dropped I jumped down to look at motor and was freaking out and there was my wife at the top of the garage stairs with a pot and a wooden spoon banging it to call me for dinner --too funny for words to express
 
I,m back , thought I had it licked with the loose connection on the CDI unit went fishing and it worked beauty for about 4 hours then fiddled with the connector out in the ocean took the clip apart about 3 different times 3rd time dropped clip overboard for the fish to play with
Bought new CDI and just have the wires plugged in direct to the pins
got new carb ,new coil, new CDI and now it starts on second pull, but I can't get it to idle properly book say to set between 1000 and 1050 seems high but whatever.it will go from 600-650 then up to 1200 -1400 if I throttle it back to 1000 -1200 it will run there for a few seconds then drop to 600 -650
what now any tips from anyone
 
Well, sorry you are still having an issue. But!....at least it' IS "bit" different. She starts and runs but "hunts" for a steady idle.

After giving it some thought, about the only thing I can think of that would (or could) cause this type of symptom has already been mentioned in this thread.

In the beginning, Mike (hondadude) asked if the spark timing advance mechanism was maybe gummed or rusted up. I don't remember what your response was exactly but I may go back and find it. I don't think you actually accessed it and took a look but maybe I'm wrong?

Anyway, if the spark advance springs are weak or if the centrifugal arms are hanging up and then..uh..er... unhanging...for lack of a better term...it could play havoc with the spark timing and would cause this sort of surging or hunting as us old diesel techs like to say.

If you haven't already, I think it's maybe time to take the cam pulley off and get a look at what is going on down there.

Get back to us with your thoughts or findings and GOOD LUCK!
 
Well, sorry you are still having an issue. But!....at least it' IS "bit" different. She starts and runs but "hunts" for a steady idle.

After giving it some thought, about the only thing I can think of that would (or could) cause this type of symptom has already been mentioned in this thread.

In the beginning, Mike (hondadude) asked if the spark timing advance mechanism was maybe gummed or rusted up. I don't remember what your response was exactly but I may go back and find it. I don't think you actually accessed it and took a look but maybe I'm wrong?

Anyway, if the spark advance springs are weak or if the centrifugal arms are hanging up and then..uh..er... unhanging...for lack of a better term...it could play havoc with the spark timing and would cause this sort of surging or hunting as us old diesel techs like to say.

If you haven't already, I think it's maybe time to take the cam pulley off and get a look at what is going on down there.

Get back to us with your thoughts or findings and GOOD LUCK!
Don't know if mine has that I thought it was all electronically done by the CDI but will investigate
 
Yes, you're right it doesn't have the "contraption" with springs that the breaker point fired ignition has. I should probably work on them more and give advice less....

However, the CDI type does have the pulsar coil located under the cam pulley. It is held in place with screws that can come loose and alter it's relationship to the magnet that "fields" it.

ALSO, along with that is what is called the "spark advancer mechanism" that uses a "rotor" and a weight. The book differentiates and lists this "device" with...and I am quoting the text here...
"With serial number 1200001 and subsequent".

Sooooooooo, I think a peek in there would be well worth your while.
 
Forgot to mention that there is a "cover" that you take off....not the whole pulley...for going in and checking/servicing the pulsar. So, if you remove the cover you should be able to get your "peek" without disturbing the belt.

Good luck.
 
Pretty sure the pulsar coil is mounted outside on the case just above and behind the carb I had checked that and it was ok , so I should be looking under the flywheel where the stator is , do I undo that nut which a impact gun tried it with a wrench and couldn't budge it
 
NO! I'm talking about the cover that is on top of the cam pulley. There are coils under the flywheel but I don't think you need to go there. I believe you are referring to the IGNITION coil that actually fires the plugs. The pulsar IS under the cover I'm talking about and it is the device that charges the ignition coil for firing.
Wish you had a HELM shop manual.
 
NO! I'm talking about the cover that is on top of the cam pulley. There are coils under the flywheel but I don't think you need to go there. I believe you are referring to the IGNITION coil that actually fires the plugs. The pulsar IS under the cover I'm talking about and it is the device that charges the ignition coil for firing.
Wish you had a HELM shop manual.
Pulsar coil checked out ok 388 ohms right where it should be
 
Re did the valves and opened them up a bit it is moderately better but still struggles to hold RPM in the midrange , is there anyway to check the stator output without taking the flywheel off I don't want to invest in a flywheel puller
 
Weird thing I sprayed some carb cleaner on the outside of the intake manifold on the body of it not near the gaskets which I had changed --manifold and carb gasket -and the engine surged losing rpm , I checked the inside of intake manifold pretty good when I had it apart and no visible cracks on the inside or. outside ??????
is it still leaking air causing this new issue --shaking has stopped with the new CDI ---so here is my hillbilly fix if the intake manifold is leaking air somewhere I,m going to get some high temp auto silicone and trowel it over the whole body of the manifold --am I crazy --if not I may take some wrench,s with me next time I go out and drop it to the bottom of the ocean and go buy a new one
 
I'm not real clear on what you mean by; "engine surged losing rpm"

If there were a leak....IF i say....then the rpm should INCREASE when "artificial" fuel was added. UNLESS..the engine is ALREADY running much too rich. But you've never indicated that it is.

Is that what it's doing when you spray? Or, is does it bog down immediately?

I say IF in capitol letters because I know that I have tricked myself into "believing" something was happening...when it ACTUALLY wasn't...out of frustration and desperation. You have had a hard time with this and you are frustrated...so be very careful about you proceed. I'd rather see you fix it than chuck it.

There is a problem with some aluminum castings where something went awry in the foundry and they come out porous. The metal winds up being sort of "spongy' and, as a result, won't completely seal.

I had a Ford Escort once that had a very similar problem. They were sort of "famous" for it back then. If something like that is going on with your intake, it could leak but there would be no cracks or holes.

If you think that's what might be happening, I would rather see you try and use your spray technique to narrow down the area where it may be leaking and then ONLY apply a sealer as needed to that PARTICULAR spot.

I would use a product that is more metallic in makeup than silicone too. The reason is that the manifold is not only a duct for directing the air flow but it also acts as a heat sink to dissipate engine heat and keep the incoming air as cool as possible. While I believe you could readily solve a porous condition by doing what you suggest, I would use something like the JB WELD aluminized formula epoxy and leave exposed as much original aluminum as possible.

If you find that the manifold needs a lot of coverage....then go ahead and try the silicone. The heat exchange might not be as good but it could mean the difference between being able to use your outboard for propulsion or as a mooring.

DON'T sink it! These things are worth almost as much dead...for parts....than they are alive. If you get to the point you can't take it anymore....start piecing it out on ebay. You might make enough for a nice down payment on newer model.
 
I'm not real clear on what you mean by; "engine surged losing rpm"

If there were a leak....IF i say....then the rpm should INCREASE when "artificial" fuel was added. UNLESS..the engine is ALREADY running much too rich. But you've never indicated that it is.

Is that what it's doing when you spray? Or, is does it bog down immediately?

I say IF in capitol letters because I know that I have tricked myself into "believing" something was happening...when it ACTUALLY wasn't...out of frustration and desperation. You have had a hard time with this and you are frustrated...so be very careful about you proceed. I'd rather see you fix it than chuck it.

There is a problem with some aluminum castings where something went awry in the foundry and they come out porous. The metal winds up being sort of "spongy' and, as a result, won't completely seal.

I had a Ford Escort once that had a very similar problem. They were sort of "famous" for it back then. If something like that is going on with your intake, it could leak but there would be no cracks or holes.

If you think that's what might be happening, I would rather see you try and use your spray technique to narrow down the area where it may be leaking and then ONLY apply a sealer as needed to that PARTICULAR spot.

I would use a product that is more metallic in makeup than silicone too. The reason is that the manifold is not only a duct for directing the air flow but it also acts as a heat sink to dissipate engine heat and keep the incoming air as cool as possible. While I believe you could readily solve a porous condition by doing what you suggest, I would use something like the JB WELD aluminized formula epoxy and leave exposed as much original aluminum as possible.

If you find that the manifold needs a lot of coverage....then go ahead and try the silicone. The heat exchange might not be as good but it could mean the difference between being able to use your outboard for propulsion or as a mooring.

DON'T sink it! These things are worth almost as much dead...for parts....than they are alive. If you get to the point you can't take it anymore....start piecing it out on ebay. You might make enough for a nice down payment on newer model.
Actually when I spray it it loses RPM
 
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