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propeller help AQ280

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kevinmi

Contributing Member
i got a new propeller for my 1976 bayliner liberty 2150. it is a solas. it seems to have helped a lot on getting on plane. I have an aq170/280. i used it all last summer but recently it fell off at the boat launch on the way in, when i kicked it in reverse. I think i know why. It does not have slots to allow me to bend the lock washer tabs, nor does it really have space for the lock washer. I think When i put it on last year, i just really tightened it. I got really lucky that i was able to find it but im afraid of it falling off again. I have a second cone and lock washer but like i said, there really isnt even room on the shaft for the washer. i attached pics and was wondering how best to mount this propeller. A locking nut and just skip the cone? I seen some of the cones have holes through them and the shaft is tapped. Mine is not. any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks guys -kevin in michigan

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The propeller shown appears to be a "thru hub" exhaust style propeller...... such as for a Merc!

The propeller shaft is sitting proud enough for the SS locking tab washer, but...... you are left with no means of accessing the tabs.

It also looks like you are using the AFT portion only of a 2pc spinner.

The 280 prop shaft should be internally threaded for a keeper bolt....... I don't see these threads, which may mean that you have a 270 drive.
So I'll suggest posting a photo of your drive. From there I can tell you which hardware you'll need.

And if I'm right on this prop, I'll suggest buying a correct propeller for your AQ series "no thru hub" exhaust system.

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Looks to me the prop nut is the early one piece which will never let that prop work properly on that prop shaft. Rick said get the right prop and I agree. That prop will fall off no matter how tight you tighten it, it has no way to lock it on.
 
thanks guys. I remember Ricardo helping me before the propeller is a replacement for volvo (solas #872-158-15 for short hub type C 1.91-1). and yes it is a 280 unless the plate on the back is wrong. I had heard that some of the cones had holes in them and the gear was tapped. mine is not one of them (lucky me). my old prop had a flange on it similar to this one but had slots in it allowing me to bend the tabs with a screw driver. the gear doesnt stick up high enough on this propeller to allow me to even get the lock washer on it. im stuck! couldnt i just leave the cone off and put a lock nut on it? or 2 nuts? thanks in advance for your sage wisdom. -kevin
 

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kevin.................

kevinmi said:
thanks guys. I remember Ricardo helping me before the propeller is a replacement for volvo (solas #872-158-15 for short hub type C 1.91-1).
Yes, that would be a short hub prop...... and the hub itself may work. However, there's no need for the addition hub diameter that accomodates the thru-hub exhaust.
There is also no access for folding over the locking tabs.... of which you will need since your prop shaft is NOT internally threaded for the "spinner" center keeper bolt.


and yes it is a 280 unless the plate on the back is wrong.
Post a photo of the drive.

I had heard that some of the cones had holes in them and the gear was tapped. mine is not one of them (lucky me).
There will be a 1 pc spinner that will be either drilled or not drilled.
Most all 2 pc spinners are drilled for the locking/keeper bolt.
No gear is tapped.... the threads (if existing) will be internal, and will be within the propeller shaft!


NOTE:
when the 2pc spinner is used for a short hub prop, both pieces are used.
when the 2 pc spinner is used for a long hub prop, only the AFT section is used.

my old prop had a flange on it similar to this one but had slots in it allowing me to bend the tabs with a screw driver.
Yes.... that would be the correct style short hub propeller.

the gear doesnt stick up high enough on this propeller to allow me to even get the lock washer on it.
What gear are you talking about????
Are you talking about the propeller shaft???

Even if the splines protruded enough for the SS tab washer (which looks as though they do), you have no access to the tabs!!!!!

YOU NEED THE CORRECT PROPELLER!!!!!!!!


im stuck! couldnt i just leave the cone off and put a lock nut on it? or 2 nuts?
Why change what the OEM has done, and what has worked well for years and years???
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It's the WRONG prop for your drive. You can fool around and kluge it to work, I suppose, but you bought and paid for a prop for a different version of the 280 drive than the one you have.
 
man, i even spec'ed it out on iboats for the exact outdrive. i do not know how i can get the right one at this point. i have attached pics of the prop that i took off. i have access to a machine shop and am wondering if i machined the slots in the new one similar to the old one. what are you guys thoughts? i can machine down the brass slightly in pic 2 which would allow me clearance on the other end for the locking tab...
 

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You could be using the wrong line cutter. If you can't find the correct one, just take/grind about 1/8" off the aft end of the one you've got.
linecutter.jpg
 
Kevin, install the correct parts and avoid any trouble down the road.
By doing so, you'll also avoid the need for any un-orthodox spare parts on board.

The 280/290 s/p prop shaft requires the long spacer/line cutterf (the one that Jeff shows)....... no matter which propeller (short/long hub) is used.

The 250/270/275 s/p prop shaft requires the short spacer/line cutter..... no matter which propeller (short/long hub) is used.

Don't let anyone try to tell you differently!


The 280 prop shaft is typically internally threaded for a center locking bolt.
DO NOT attempt to drill and thread it.... (you'd lose the nickel/chrome finish)

As a last ditch effort here, I suppose that you could drill a small hole into the AFT-most area of the outer prop hub, and use SS safety wire through the spinner as to prevent accidental CCW rotation and loss.

This image may help you understand the differences in shaft lengths, and in the spacer/line cutters used for either.
 

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Jeff, that will certainly work!
However, perhaps consider a slightly different approach that would not require modifying the spacer/line cutter, nor building any special tools!
 

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Yes! That looks great. Thanks guys for the help.. One small mod... Do u think I could just mill the brass( boat side of the propeller a little to avoid having to cut down the cutter?
 
ok i attached the pics of the finished product. i chucked that sucker up in a lathe and machined off a little of the brass on the front so the locking washer would fit on the splines. you guys dont think that the slots and the cable will imbalance the propeller? was just thinking out loud when i was machining it.. thanks again for all of your help!z.jpgx.jpgy.jpg
 
kevinmi said:
ok i attached the pics of the finished product. i chucked that sucker up in a lathe and machined off a little of the brass on the front so the locking washer would fit on the splines. you guys dont think that the slots and the cable will imbalance the propeller? was just thinking out loud when i was machining it.. thanks again for all of your help!View attachment 11617View attachment 11618View attachment 11619
Click to expand...

Good job! I don't think it will be imbalanced, but why the cable if you are able to bend up the tabs?
 
You'll be fine with what you did but if you were able to bend the tabs up into the cone why the wire? There is a trick to attaching the prop with the lock tab. With the prop on and lock tab on the splines, tighten the holy hell out of the cone. Now reach in and put a mark, scratch on the prop where one of the cone recesses are on the PROP, at this point it does NOT matter if the cone lines up with a tab or not. Now pull the cone back off, reach in and turn the lock tab until one of the tabs lines up with the mark on the prop. Now put the cone back on and tighten it like hell, should be lined up with the tab now, bend the three tabs over you can get to. This way assures the prop is on as tight as possible and still lets the lock tab work right. I was taught this at VP school 35 years ago. I've never had a prop come off with this way of tightening. Make sure the SS tab washer is as flat as you can get it. I put it on the back of a vise and beat on it till flat.
 
Kevin........................
kevinmi said:
ok i attached the pics of the finished product. i chucked that sucker up in a lathe and machined off a little of the brass on the front so the locking washer would fit on the splines.
I understand the "why"....... but by removing material from the front of the propeller (as apposed to the rear), you may have weakened the thrust area used during FWD propulsion.

you guys dont think that the slots and the cable will imbalance the propeller?
The slots will not cause an issue........ but SS locking wire is to be twisted tightly... not loose like the cable that you've shown us.
I may be concerned with this.

Also, the SS locking wire is to be fed though and twisted in a direction that "counters" any spinner CCW loosening.

was just thinking out loud when i was machining it.. thanks again for all of your help!
With the new slots......, I'm not understanding why you have not used the locking tab washer in lieu of the safety cable!

View attachment 11617View attachment 11618View attachment 11619
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i did use the washer. i was able to bend up the 2 tabs from each slot. I just added the cable as an extra precaution. the way i see it, it will not allow the cone to unscrew more than half a turn. I really dont see it moving at all though. i can just cut it off if you guys think its going to cause me problems...
 
As long as the tabs are bent up properly, non need for the cable IMO. My prop uses the tabs and have never lost one in 43 years!
 
went out yesterday and it worked like a charm! thanks a ton for all your help guys. Now i have issues with my motor :/ i will start a new thread lol.
 
Ricardo - you've shown that the only difference between the short and long hub propellers is the length of the hub. That sure makes sense - short hub, long hub! Can you verify the actual difference in length? It seems to me to be only 1/8" or so. If that is the case then the one pictured would seem to be a universal fit?
IMAG0919.jpg
 
Any AQ prop will fit any AQ prop shaft providing you have the correct line cutter and correct prop attachment cone and spacer. There were no props for just the 280 or 290 or 270 and so on, it was all in the attachment and spacer unless you were into racing applications. The shorter of the shafts is 3.83 and the long one is 4.50. This is from the ledge that the line cutter goes against to the end of the splines.
 
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jeffnick said:
Ricardo - you've shown that the only difference between the short and long hub propellers is the length of the hub.
That is correct!
(see my image in post #10)

That sure makes sense - short hub, long hub!

Can you verify the actual difference in length? It seems to me to be only 1/8" or so.
See my image in post #10 again.
The difference in the length between the short hub -vs- long hub is much more than 1/8".


If that is the case then the one pictured would seem to be a universal fit?
Not so!
Keep in mind that all prop shafts net the same amount of shaft splines when the correct spacer/line cutter is used.
IOW, there is NO long or short propeller shaft as we may be lead to think........ there is only one effective length!

The short prop hub sits "shy" of the shaft splines in order for the SS Tab Washer to engage a small portion of the splines.
The full spinner or both pieces of the 2 pc spinner are used for this hub.
The tab washer can be used.... or the center locking bolt can be used.

The long prop hub sits proud of the shaft splines and must use the AFT-most section of the 2 pc spinner in order to reach in and grab enough spinner threads.
Since the tab washer cannot be used, the center locking bolt must be.
Click to expand...
 
boatdoc55 said:
Any AQ prop will fit any AQ prop shaft providing you have the correct line cutter and correct prop attachment cone and spacer. There were no props for just the 280 or 290 or 270 and so on, it was all in the attachment and spacer unless you were into racing applications. The shorter of the shafts is 3.83 and the long one is 4.50. This is from the ledge that the line cutter goes against to the end of the splines.
Click to expand...

Why then does Volvo list different props for short hub or long hub applications, as do all the places that sell Aquamatic propellers? If I've got the hardware for a 250 then according to you either long or short should fit?

And I'm having trouble with the math. If these dimensions are correct...
long-short.jpg

And I have what I think are both 250 and 280 line cutter/spacers.
The 250 measures .625
The 280 measures 1.375

It appears that both hubs (distance from line cutter to end of shaft splines) is 4"

But according to Volvo bushings are as follows,
Short hub - 3.071
Long hub - 3.661
So I guess there's another factor in the equation? That's why I was asking about the difference in hub length.

Every prop I have measures about 4" of hub - from the front that rests on the spacer/line cutter, to the back that gets the bendy tab (250) or plastic washer (280). But in the case of the Amita they were (~1/8) too long to allow fitment of the bendy tab.
IMAG0915.jpg

So I'm guessing that I don't have any true long hub props because they must protrude about 1/2" beyond the splines?

And I see now, that short hub Amitas are no longer available for my 250 at the place the OP got his propeller, maybe because of the problem we are having with not being able to fit the bendy tab? I ordered an Amita long hub 280 - we'll see if it fits...
 
..............

jeffnick said:
Why then does Volvo list different props for short hub or long hub applications, as do all the places that sell Aquamatic propellers?
They are not being listed for short hub or long hub props......... they are being listed as short hub or long hub props.


If I've got the hardware for a 250 then according to you either long or short should fit?
Well, not exactly.......look at my drawing again.

You'll see that I've put these shafts into 2 categories:

a...... the 280/285/290/SP etc. upper left hand corner (incorrectly refered to as the long shaft when/if the spacer is not considered)
b...... the 250/270/275 lower left hand corner (incorrectly refered to as the short shaft shaft when/if the spacer is not considered)


There is a caveat to this, and that is the spinner's center locking bolt threads.

The 250/270 shafts are not internally threaded for the keeper bolt.
The 275/280/285/290/SP are internally threaded for the keeper bolt.

At the right side, where I'm showing the short/long prop hubs (green rectangles), I'm using the same shafts and same spacer/line cutter to demenstrate how one sits "shy" and the other sits "proud".

attachment.php



And I'm having trouble with the math. If these dimensions are correct...
Your math is not accounting for the difference in spacer/line cutter lengths.
When the correct spacer/line cutter is used, all shafts net the same length of splines.

View attachment 11699

And I have what I think are both 250 and 280 line cutter/spacers.
The 250 measures .625
The 280 measures 1.375
Without actually measuring two of them..... that sounds about right.

It appears that both hubs (distance from line cutter to end of shaft splines) is 4"

But according to Volvo bushings are as follows,
Short hub - 3.071
Long hub - 3.661
So I guess there's another factor in the equation? That's why I was asking about the difference in hub length.
Look at my drawing again.
While I don't actually show the 1 pc spinner, you'll see the 2 pc spinner and my notation in that both parts of the 2 pc spinner = the 1 pc spinner.


Every prop I have measures about 4" of hub - from the front that rests on the spacer/line cutter, to the back that gets the bendy tab (250) or plastic washer (280). But in the case of the Amita they were (~1/8) too long to allow fitment of the bendy tab.
I think that we can safely say that the Amita prop is incorrect!
It should not have required any modification.

View attachment 11700

So I'm guessing that I don't have any true long hub props because they must protrude about 1/2" beyond the splines?
I don't know if the protrusion is exactly 1/2" or not.... but yes, the Volvo Penta long hub prop will protrude past the splines.
Therefor, the long hub propeller must use the AFT portion of the 2 pc spinner in order to grab enough threads.

And I see now, that short hub Amitas are no longer available for my 250 at the place the OP got his propeller, maybe because of the problem we are having with not being able to fit the bendy tab?
I may not be following you on that..... but if the long hub prop was used on a 250 drive prop shaft, you'd have no means of locking it... unless of course you did the SS safety wire thing.

I ordered an Amita long hub 280 - we'll see if it fits...
If the Amita long hub is intended to be used on a 250 prop shaft, you're going to be left with using the SS safety wire.

And..... if this Amita long hub prop has the large blades, the blades may interfere with the 250 style exhaust outlet housing.
Click to expand...
 
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