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Pair of BF225 (2004)

Hga77

New member
Hi,

I'm new here. I just purchased a 2004 boat with twin BF225 engines with 132hrs. I had a certified Honda tech check them and the report is below.
I would like to know the following.

1. What to watch out for with these engines. They are 2004 model.

2. From the serial numbers, can someone tell me if they are NMEA 2000?

3. Are they less weight than the new BF250?

4. They ran great in the sea trial and look brand new. Is it worth repowering to the BF250?

Thanks for any help. Here is the mechanics report:


"Port engine # BAHJ-1100629
Starboard engine # BAHJ-1100631

Starboard engine and Port engine : oil clean and good level , oil filters not Honda brand but appear to be new , removed thermostats and inspected area for any corrosion or pitting ( no issues at this time ) , lower unit gear lube is new and no metal found on drain screws , checked crankshaft for end play , one trim seal needs to be replaced on each engine , trim senders are stuck and need some lube or to be replaced , cowl lock latches need to be adjusted engine covers don’t come off without some struggle , sea starsteering end glands have minor leak support rods seem to be free in tilt tubes , spark plugs appear to be new

Compression specs ( psi )
Port 1. 200 2. 195 3. 200 4. 195 5. 195 6. 200
Starboard 1. 195 2. 195 3. 195 4. 200 5. 200 6. 195

In my opinion the motors have low hours on them however I couldn’t verify the time on the gauges"
 
Welcome to the Forum. There are a lot of good folks on this forum that can help you maintain, repair, and understand those engines. I'm not a Honda Tech, but just an owner who took a lot of interest in maintaining and repairing my first four-stroke outboard. There are several Honda Tech's who are active on this forum. I've been on here for many years and have learned a lot.

1. No NMEA 2000 on those engines - that didn't happen until a much later time - 2010, I think.

2. If my recollection is still good, each engine weights between 620 to 655 pounds, depending on shaft length. Don't know the weight of the 250, but suspect it is about the same.

3. If you don't have the owners manual go on line and download one for free at http://marine.honda.com/owners

4. You should find an authorized Honda Marine dealer who has the Honda Diagnostic System (computer, also called Dr. H) to see if there are any fault codes being given off by the ECM. That can also verify the number of hours on each engine.

5. Have the repairs done that are recommended in the report.

5. There are a few key issues with these engines. First and foremost is that the original exhaust tubes allowed water to get up into them under certain circumstances and blow the HO2 sensor, and could even allow water to get into #6 cylinder and lock up the engine, for a catastrophic failure. Call Customer Service at Honda Marine in Atlanta 770-497-6400, and find out if they have any record of the exhaust tubes being changed in accordance with Honda Service Bulleting # 56. If not, you may want to consider having that done. Honda sells a complete kit for doing it. If you send me an e-mail at [email protected], I will send you a copy of that service bulletin.

6. On some of these older engines, there was not enough cooling water getting to the mid-shaft bushing (bearing.) It would fail, and would eat right through the lower cowling. Every time you drop the lower unit to change out the water pump impeller (every season), you should look up in there and check that bushing for corrosion and/or looseness. BTW - given the age of the engines and very low hours, I would have the impellers changed out as soon as possible. I'm very surprised that you mechanic did not do that.

7. At 132 hours on 11 year old engines, be prepared for some issues. The mechanic's report indicates that the seals on the hydraulics have likely dried out over time. Have them replaced. I would also make sure that the high pressure fuel filter is replaced. They will fail over time even if the engine is not in use.

8. Those engines are not even broken in yet. Get some time on them, and get some of that time at wide-open throttle. (WOT should be around 6000 rpm.) That will help seal the rings and valves, and blow out any carbon buildup. The more thjose engines are used, the better they run. Consider using a decarbonizer in your fuel, like Yamalube Ring Free.

9. Make sure that each engine has an external fuel/water separator installed, such as the Racor. This will greatly help in keeping the internal filters and fuel screens clean and operating properly.

If these engines are properly maintain, you will get thousands of hours out of them. One member of this forum has 3000 hours on his dual 225's. Reportedly, the US Coast Guard was putting over 5000 hours on them.
 
Ditto to what CHawk says.

The 250 weighs 13 lbs more than the 225.

I am also surprised that the mechanic did not put the computer on the motor to check the history and the hours.

As an FYI, the by the serial numbers, those engines are actually 2003 models. From the info that I checked, they were purchased from Honda by the dealer in August of 2004. He may have gotten a deal on leftovers from the previous year. They were purchased by the first owner in March of 2005. Their model numbers are BF225A3XCA and BF225A3XCA. So unless you wrote down the wrong serial number, they both come up as counter rotational engines. I doubt that is what you actually have. It could be a typo somewhere in the records or the dealer changed the lower unit on one to make it a standard rotation engine...which is not a big deal.

You can have Honda verify the above numbers, so you know exactly what you have.

Mike
 
Thank you CHawk. Very helpful info there. Really appreciate your help!

I'm also not sure why he didn't recommend changing the impellers. He is a Certified Honda Master Tech.

This is my first boat and all this is new to me. After reading your post and all your recommendations I'm reaching a conclusion that it might be best to sell them and get something else that is slightly newer and less hassle to maintain since they are older and with low hrs it seems there are extra things to do to them. The other issue is that there is no Honda dealer where the boat is heading. I initially thought that if I need any parts I'll simply order them from else where but now with all this extra work to verify this and that etc, I think it's best to sell them to someone that knows/wants these engines.
 
Thank you hondadude also!

I actually downloaded both manuals bf225 and bf250 and saw the difference in weight.

The reason he didn't use the software and download the logs is because he didn't have it. He said this is because he had left his previous marine shop where he worked and started his own shop but he's still in the process of purchasing the Honda software.

Thanks for looking up these engines and giving thier background. Very valuable info! I think these are the same engines that you found!
 
Do you guys think I can use the same rigging for new BF250 engines? And would the performance increase? The boat is a Hydra-Sports 2800 CC and very heavy. It's almost underpowered with BF225s and I would rather repower.
 
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You can go with the same rigging....but if you are going to use the NMEA2000 you will need to run one additional cable from each engine to the network backbone. I would recommend changing the shift and throttle cables to the Glendinning Pro X cables that Honda sells.

Also, you may want to consider, if you go to a Honda 250, to get one with the intelligent throttle and shift. It is new this year. It is more expensive and will require replacing your existing shifter and eliminating the need for throttle and shift cables. Shifting is supposed to be much easier.

You will still need to fix the leaky cylinder on your hydraulic steering....or replace the cylinder, depending on its condition.

Mike
 
I have over 3000 hrs , wouldn't give up on them so easy... I do almost all my own maintience , service manual , and research on here will take you a long way.. I had a local Honda service tell me how extremely hard to perform serv. #56 with perservence and help frm help on here did no problem
 
Thank you very much to all for your help. Well it seems very expensive to repower so I am again considering keeping these engines. But, for me to keep them i would like to find someone that is a certified Honda mechanic that will do all these repairs and upgrades for me.

The boat is currently in NJ being worked on the hull. After this it will be heading to Bay St Louis, Ms for a trailer then to Jacksonville, FL before it is moved to me.

Do you know anyone that you trust and is perfect for this job anywhere between these locations?
 
I have decided that these engines are not for me because I don't have a dealer where the boat is going. So they are for sale. They will be de-rigged and crated. The twin engines, controls and props are for sale! Make an offer if you are interested they will be priced to sell quick!
 
If anyone is interested in these engines here are some pictures
 

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Must have been a lot of 2003 225Honda outboards left over, I bought a used 2004 Edgewater with 2003's on it (very close to your serial numbers). It was originally sold new by a dealer in West Palm, FL. They run great and I'm very happy with them. If you need a terrific Honda Marine Dealer while you are in NJ, contact South Harbor Marine, Waretown, NJ, they are outstanding.
 
Hello guys, I actually went ahead and kept these engines. But, here's the interesting part... The boat was finally shipped and delivered to me in Bahrain around January 2016. Due to a crazy hectic life schedule, I was not able to use the boat and so has been sitting on a trailer this whole time. Also it's my first boat so I'm very new to all this! The boat has not been in the water all this time!

I started the engines yesterday while attaching flushing earmuffs and running water through the water inlets on the lower units (BTW, Is this the best way to start the engines on land?) They start great. The port engine doesn't pee any water from the pee hole. I gently prodded around 1" into the pee hole and that didn't make a difference. But, if this helps, the hole does drip a few drops every now and then while engine is running at idle. What does this mean?

Also, while reading about these engines over a year ago, I vaguely recall several members saying to buy some sort of "user manual" or "engine guide" or some document that helps in maintenance specifically for these engines. And I don't think it's the official manual, but not sure. Does anyone know such document for these engines?
 
First of all, these engines will quickly overheat when run on muffs. So don't do that. Test them in a large barrel of water with a constant stream of new water.

Secondly, after sitting that long, I sure hope all the fuel had been drained before shipping and totally new fuel was introduced into the entire fuel stream. Otherwise, you will likely have running problems until it's all straightened out with new fuel filters and a drained VST.

The manual you want is the Official Helm Shop Manual for the BF 225. Be sure the one you get is applicable to your 2003 engines. However, these engines have changed very little over their lifespan. You cannot trust the aftermarket manuals - too many errors and omissions. Chapter three in that manual is invaluable in that it provides almost all of the detailed maintenance procedures. Chapter 5 covers trouble-shooting and diagnostics. It costs about $116 USD on eBay or Amazon. Here are some old links that hopefully are still good.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-BF200...ash=item3a7fecbc1c:g:XHcAAOSw5VFWIuVc&vxp=mtr

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-Marine-Outboard-Service-Repair/dp/B00D8JG6VW

I suspect that you can find a good Honda service operation in Bahrain. These engines seem to be very popular in that region.
 
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