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Constant alarm - BF115's

J

JimMurray

Member
I've got a pair of 115's (2102 yr. model) that I recently submerged. I've gone thru and pulled apart all the connectors on the engine, cleaned them, replaced the VR's on the alternators, etc. The engines themselves seem to have been restored.
However, as soon as I turn the key on, I get the normal 2 beeps that I always get when I turn the key on, but there is also a constant alarm sounding. The engines run beautifully, and as I said, I've cleaned the heck out of all connectors.
The alarm, coming from behind the key panel, sounds constantly. Can anyone tell me where to look to find what is causing this to go off? I'm limited to a voltmeter for troubleshooting, so I cannot run the diagnostics that some of you can, but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Jim
 
Do you have any lights on when buzzer is on ? Did you cleaned the fuel water separator ? is it continues buzzer or intermediate buzzer ?


wajira
 
No, no lights remain on beyond the initial power-on sequence. The buzzer begins immediately when the key turns to the on position, and continues to run until I turn the key off. The engines run normally otherwise. Yes, it is a constant buzzer.
 
Do you have two warning lights or four?

If you have four, after the first two seconds, the charge light should stay on until the motor starts running. If it is not coming on, then it is time to check the battery and charging system.

One other thought.....could the alarm be from some other device, like a depth finder alarm?

Mike
 
If the buzzer sounds without starting engine it could be water in the fuel system,other than that any buzzers on only after start the engine and along with any of light should come on,either check engine,battery or over heat, all are red lights,if oil related problem green light goes off.

as mike says ,make sure buzzer come from the engine buzzer,

wajira
 
Dude, I have the 4-light starter switches. As advertised, the charging light remains on until the engine starts, which is immediately, and then goes off, so my charging system is working fine.
I have nothing other than the engines powered right now, so the alarm couldn't be coming from anywhere else.
I just went and drained my fuel water separators and they were both pure gas with no water. Still, as soon as I turn the ignition switch on, the alarm starts sounding.
I chased it down and the alarm that is sounding is the one that's about as big around as a silver dollar and about an inch and a half long. That alarm is on the wiring harness that is just beneath the start switches.
Where to next??
Jim
 
Check oil pressure switch? I have seen motors wired to give constant alarm when ignition is on but oil pressure is low and stops only when engine is running and oil is up to pressure. Not sure this applies to your motor but it's easy to check.
 
Oil pressure appears to be great. Where is the switch and how do I check it? And, could I disconnect the switch to cause the alarm to stop as a troubleshooting method?
 
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Oil pressure sensor is on the starboard side of the engine block. Im not very familiar with the newer motors and yours may have a more complex system than a simple switch for oil pressure but someone else on here should be able to tell you how to test it properly with a multi meter. I'm only guessing it's more than a switch based on its price $130! If it's just a switch then the output should go to ground when the oil is up to pressure with the engine running.
 
Let's step back a minute and think this through.....

The warning horn gets a ground from the ECM to sound.

When the key switch is turned on....it supplies voltage to one side of the horn, while the ECM as it comes alive normally sends two intermittent grounds to the horn.

When the engine is running and the engine has an oil pressure issue or overheat, the corresponding sensors tell the ECM that there is a problem, then the ECM lights the appropriate warning light or turns out the oil light and sends a solid ground to the horn.

Since the warning lights seem to be operating correctly it is possible that the ECM is not seeing a problem and is not sending the ground.

Therefore, the ground may be coming from a short to ground on the yellow/green lead. Could be from water inside your wiring harness from your engine to the helm or in the 14 pin connector at the engine.

A real off the wall thought....how is your battery? I have run into an unusual alarm on some engines that I am installing, that when I try to use the battery that the customer had furnished, it is not fully charged or is weak....I get a solid alarm while all the warning lights are normal. After it runs for a while and I restart, the alarm goes away. If you can jump both starting batteries together, try it that way.

Also....if you know how to check for codes, now may be the time to check. If you do not know how, let us know and we can probably step you through it.

Mike
 
Ok, I might have misunderstood JimMurray when he said all lights are off. I was thinking oil pressure light was also off when running. Might have read into it too much.
 
Both batteries are in great shape. I've charged them both up fully before installing them, plus they're only 2 years old.
I don't know how to check for codes, and as I said, I'm limited to just a dvm to check continuity and voltage.
As I've said before, I've spent 30 years as an aircraft mechanic, so I've turned a wrench or two in my days.
I've come to the conclusion that I'm getting a ground somewhere, I just can't figure out where. I've pulled apart and cleaned all the connectors that I can find, and no help.
Jim
 
To check the codes you need a "special tool".....a paper clip.

Near the ECM should be a couple of different connectors. One will be a red four pin connector that is not connected to anything. Pull that out for easy access and take the paper clip and stick one end in the pin with the black lead and the other end in the pin with the Light Green lead. Be careful to put it into the correct holes. You could damage the ECM is you put it into the wrong ones.

Turn the key to on and see what the check engine light does.

If it comes on and stays on steady, there are probably no codes....although it could also mean the ECM is bad.

If it blinks....count the number of blinks and report back to us.

As a side note.....after you check the codes....if it is not leading us anywhere, you might want to swap the ECM with the other motor and see if the problem follows the ECM.

Mike
 
I do not have access to the code info at this time. Later tonight probably.

Hopefully, someone else will jump in before then.

The ECM has stored the codes.

You should clear the codes and see if they come back.

Clearing the codes depends a lot on what type of safety landyard button that you have. If you have the dual engine keyswitch assy, then you have a toggle switch.

You will have to pull your landyard out to operate the switch, then push the switch back in for each switch operation.

The procedure goes like this...

Put your shorting tool in the plug.
Turn the key switch to on.
Operate the safe switch (like you would kill the engine) 5 times with at least a 1/2 second on each time and ...all within 20 seconds. You should get two beeps and the mil (check engine light) should then stay on steady.

When you switched the ECU's did the solid alarm follow the ECU or did it stay with the one engine?

Mike
 
I am puzzled. I can not find a 1 in my code list for this motor. A 27 is ECT4, which is the forward temperature sensor on top of the engine next to the thermostats. The one to the rear is ECT2.

There are no 12 or 71 codes....so you have me stumped on this.

Hopefully, you were able to clear the codes and all this is moot.

Mike
 
It could be previously stored code, why the check engine lights doesn't come on? i had same prob with BF225 submerged engine, after re installed the engine everything was work fine but overheat temperature light stay on all the time,it was new wiring harness, finally i had replace the ECU and problem solved,

this also might be same,
As mike says their is no same codes show in MIL code chart, and it mention If the number of blinks of the MIL is other than which show in the list,it mean ECM is faulty.

wajira
 
Well, all codes are now cleared, but still have the steady beeper going as soon as I turn the ignition switch on and stays on steady the whole time.
 
Let me make sure that I understand....

The alarm sounds on both engines even before you swapped the ECU's?

If so, that sounds like an odd coincidence.

The only sure way to check to be sure that there is not a ground on the horn lead is to check it.

Disconnect the ECU and disconnect the yellow/green lead going to the horn. You might have to disconnect both leads going to the horn, depending on the key switch arrangement that you have.

Then check for any resistance between the black lead (in that engine harness) and the yellow/green lead. If there is anything but an open circuit, then you have an internal short in the wiring harness. You should be able to get to the black lead by going to one of the ground terminals on the back of a gauge for that engine.

If you get an open circuit (infinite resistance), then the ECU may be the likely culprit...as wajira indicated.

It does seem odd that both ECU's would have the same problem. Although....if you applied power to the ECU's before thoroughly drying them (over several days), then one of the internal circuits could be fried.....but.....the identical problem on both????????

Mike
 
Let me make sure that I understand....

The alarm sounds on both engines even before you swapped the ECU's? - Yes. On both engines, as soon as I turn the key on, the constant alarm goes off and does not ever stop. I do get the 2 beeps typical of starting, but the constant alarm is going off at the same time.

Disconnect the ECU and disconnect the yellow/green lead going to the horn. You might have to disconnect both leads going to the horn, depending on the key switch arrangement that you have. - I will attempt to do this over the weekend. I will get a pic of the key switch for you if necessary, but it's 2 switches side by side, 4 lights around each switch with the cut-off located between them. I had the motors installed in 2012, so that may help you visualize the switch type used.

Then check for any resistance between the black lead (in that engine harness) At what location? and the yellow/green lead, again, at what location? Under the console or on the engine itself? Also, short of cutting the wires, is there a way to disconnect the wires going to the horn? . If there is anything but an open circuit, then you have an internal short in the wiring harness. You should be able to get to the black lead by going to one of the ground terminals on the back of a gauge for that engine.

If you get an open circuit (infinite resistance), then the ECU may be the likely culprit...as wajira indicated.

It does seem odd that both ECU's would have the same problem. Although....if you applied power to the ECU's before thoroughly drying them (over several days), then one of the internal circuits could be fried.....but.....the identical problem on both???????? I started both engines within 8 hours of pulling the boat out of the water in order to save the cylinders and crank. If it's an ECU problem, wouldn't I get some kind of code?
Jim
 
I do not remember if the horn leads go to a connector. I do not keep the dual switch panels in stock. You just have to follow the leads and see. If they go to a bullet or a two pin connector, then all you have to do if disconnect it there and get to the yellow/green lead there.

Use a ground under the dash (like at one of the gauges to the engine you are testing), it is closer than going to the battery.

Do you hear both the two beeps and the solid beep at the exact same time? Like there are two simultaneous beeps? If so, check more closely for where the second beep is coming from . One horn can only make one beep at a time.

Are you sure that you do not have a digital depthfinder that is wired to the ignition??

Mike
 
You could go to the 6 pin connector on the wiring harness coming from the engine....if you can find it....both the black (gnd) and yellow green leads go through this connector.

You should also check this connector for corrosion. The problem could be there.

If the solid beep is not as loud as the two beeps, there could be a high resistance short between the yellow/green and the black. That would cause the solid to be a little less loud than the two beeps....but when the ECU sends two hard grounds for the two beeps, the beeps would get a little louder. Could that be what is going on?

You just have to do some testing to see where that ground is originating. Otherwise, we are just guessing.

Mike
 
On the 6 pin connector from the engine, unplug it and with the ignition switch in the off position look for a short (or anything but infinite resistance) between the yellow/green wire and ground (the black wire in the harness) on both sides of the connector. If either of those shows anything other than infinite resistance then you have a short to ground which should be traced either towards the buzzer or towards the motor depending on which side of the connector you see the short circuit. If you end up tracing towards the motor you can disconnect the ECU and check for short circuit again on the ECU connector between the yellow/green wire and a green or green/red wire to see if it is on the wiring harness if not then it must be coming from the ECU pin.
 
THANK YOU SKRONK!
With a schematic, I stand a lot better chance of wringing out the wires! I cannot find a service manual for my engine. Any idea how I can get my hands on one?
Jim
 
There is a service manual for all models from 1984 - 2004 floating around on the Internet in PDF form. It will likely be of use to you even though it doesn't cover your year (Not even honda has manuals for engines from the future like yours, 2102, wow where do you get the dilithium crystals to run it?). Do a search for "honda outboard" on Www.Torrentz.eu.
 
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