Honda 90 Check engine light comes on at idle.

I had posted this on another's thread...A member here has suggested I start a new thread on this subject. He said to ask for Honda dudes help....From reading posts it looks like the engine light coming on at idle could be a common fault with the Honda 90.
I am a partner in a boat in Mexico we have a 2011 Honda 90 with about 400 hours on the engine.
We fish off the west coast of Mexico in a place called Barra de Navidad
This is my story about the alarm.
We were 10 miles from our Marina when I noticed water pouring out of the engine case.I pulled the cover off the motor and the bottom of the case was flooded with warm water the pee hole had water coming out of it ,but thinking back on i with not the normal pressure... I checked the oil in the engine it looked clean and the engine was running normal but water was coming from somewhere so we trolled back to the marina. I called the Honda mechanic and he had to take the cover off the leg and we found the tube that runs the P water had come off .OK here is where the plot thickens... Next time out fishing when we were out 15 miles right before we caught a big Marlin by the way. We had a check engine light alarm with a slow loud beep when we put the motor to idle.I turned the engine off and looked around the motor then turned it back on..it started with no alarm. Any way after that every time we put the boat to an idle or neutral the alarm went off. Yesterday we had the Mexican Honda mechanic come to check the boat..I asked before he came if he had a scanner to read the code that was giving us the alarm he said yes..(all conversations are in Spanish so a little can be lost in translation) anyway he showed up with out the scanner and had me turn on the engine and proceeded to check the oil in the motor as it was running. He showed me the dip stick and said the oil level was low and the oil viscosity was too thick and asked me if I was using Honda 10 30 oil? Unfortunately I don't do the maintenance on the boat my other partner does it and I could not answer his questions. It's funny in all my life I never saw anyone checking oil in an engine while it was running! He explained that an outboard motor was different from a car engine..while the engine was at idle we had about a 1/4 inch of oil on the dip stick .. he then had me rev the engine and he then checked the oil level and the dip stick was clean no oil! After that display we had him change the oil and filter with 5 quarts of Honda 10/30 ...now when he checked the oil level with the engine revved up it showed about 1/2 on the dip stick...He thought that maybe the thick oil and low oil level might be our alarm problem. After the oil change we went fishing... again out over 15 miles trolled around for over an hour idled the boat several times and no alarms ...We trolled back and about 5 miles from the marina we had another marlin strike which we lost after a brief fight...but while we were at Idle the damned alarm went on!! We will get the Honda guy to check the code but I'm willing to bet that it will be the H02 sensor...which I suspected was the problem after doing some research on it..I suspected that because of the water we had enter the engine compartment when the pee tube came off.
I would sure appreciate any constructive comments on this problem and on checking the oil level while the engine is running.
After talking to another member here who had mentioned in a separate post that you can check for the engine trouble codes by using the kill switch button...I had noticed the mechanic doing the same procedure and I now know he the mechanic probably knows what code it is.
If Honda dude would be so kind could you comment on the check engine alarm at idle and also I would appreciate his comments on checking the engine oil level while the motor is running.

Thanks in advance ...oldgringo

Ok the Honda mechanic here has fixed the problem..The guy was pretty sharp after all...Thanks for all the help!

Oldgringo, please do the forum the curtesy of informing us what the issue was and how it was rectified. others experiencing similar issues may find it of great help.

The mechanic said Sometimes if the gas is not good, when the motor idles, the computer has to make an adjustment. That will change a lot of things such as oil pressure and cause an alarm to go off. He added some gas additive and We went out yesterday with no alarm. I'll keep the forum informed if the alarm comes back we're keeping our fingers crossed.

Just came upon this thread. Yes, please let us know what the trouble was.

Regarding checking the oil with the motor is running.....I have not heard of that before...but there are many things that I have never heard of. Perhaps Jimmy D will have a dissertation that he can present to us on the topic.

If it was an oil alarm, the alarm would be a constant on alarm and the oil light would go out or flash.

Mike

Interesting fix.

Mike

After 2- 40 to 50 mile fishing trips the light and alarm came back on when I put the motor to idle while we were pulling in our lines! Back to the drawing board! I'm going to have the mechanic change the spark plugs and do a 400 hour service since we are close or over 400 hours on the motor.

Sounds like the perfect way to find the problem.

Mike

The mechanic went out fishing with us. After an hour or two of no fish we stopped the boat and waited for the alarm. It took a full five minutes for the alarm to finally come on. Anyway we messed with it for quite a while. And finally came up with the conclusion that the O2 sensor was getting a too high of a reading occasionally because The motors idle was too slow.The mechanic increase the idle speed and the motor even seemed to run bit smoother at Idle. After that we never did get the alarm again so who knows?
While we were out there we had him change our fuel filters as it turned out the package kit we had bought of filters did not have a high-pressure filter. The high-pressure filter was very dirty and the mechanic suggested taking it out and running without it until we can get a new one. The filter had 450 hours on it .I've looked on the Internet and I can't find a part number for the high-pressure filter for around a 2011 Honda 90. By any chance does someone here know that part number?

Part number is 16911-ZY3-010. It's description is a "fuel strainer screen".

Mike

Thank you very much!
Happy new year to all!

Just a few obserevations...

1. I would go ahead and change the plugs ASAP. Not sure on the 90, but on my 225 a misfiring spark plug will cause the same alarm and fault code as a failing HO2 sensor.

2. It seems that the high pressure fuel filter is a source of all kinds of running problems, at least on the bigger Hondas. I change mine every 200 hours and I would recommend that you do the same. It's easy to do.

3. I'm surprised that a problematic HO2 sensor that throws an alarm does not also generate a fault code that would be detected by the Honda Diagnostic System, but again, that may be because the Honda 90 is very different from my 225.

Hi Chawk
We have the plugs and they will be in Mexico along with the high pressure filter on the 13th of this month. I cleaned the dirt out of the old filter and washed it then blew it out with air.I think it is better to run with the old one than without one.
The mechanic hooked his computer to our engine 2 times..and could find no alarms in the history...When we were on the water and he hooked up his computer He finally did see a code and as he explained it to me in spanish it sounded like a H02 and fuel problem...that is when he started monitoring the value on the HO2 sensor and we could see that the value would go up to if I remember right to .80 to .98 and he said that value should be lower..that is when he raised the idle speed a bit and the HO2 value dropped in the .030 range We waited at Idle after that and we didn't get anymore alarms. We go out next Saturday so will find out then if we have really solved the problemo. As a side benefit of taking the mechanic out fishing was as we started out into the ocean he said right away to turn around and go back to the marina because we had the wrong prop... I had always suspected we had the wrong prop .. I usually drive the boat and at about 5000 RPM we could do up to 25 miles an hour and I could easily over rev the motor if I pushed the throttle forward any more. anyway the mechanic went back to the shop and brought back a bigger propeller that had a couple dents in it and gave us a fairly good vibration but at our normal trolling speeds it probably lowered the motor 500 RPM. And at almost full throttle I could not over rev the engine.so the mechanic is going to bring a better four bladed prop on Saturday.

Yes, it is not good for the engine or the injectors to run the engine without the HP filter.

It sounds like the correct diagnosis on the HO2 sensor and the idle speed. On my 225 the idle speed is controlled by the ECU and never goes below 650 rpm's. I don't know how the 90 handles that idle function.

Getting the proper prop is very important on these engines. Wide open throttle should be around 6000 rpm +/- 200 in flat seas. Also, it's a good idea to regularly run these engines at WOT to keep everything working smoothly and blow out the carbon. Given the gas situation down there, a regular treatment of YamaLube Ring Free IAW the directions on the bottle would be a good idea.

CHawk Thanks for the advice..I almost never go over 5000 rpm because of the over revving problem..When we get the new prop on and if we can achieve WOT at 6000 how long would a run at that RPM be acceptable ?

It sounds like the tech is really going the extra mile. I assume he made sure that the motor came up to the proper temperature in the head and the block. There are two thermostats.

The closer you get it propped to reach 6200 the better.

Once the engine is properly broken in (which it should be by now), you can run it full throttle for as long as you want. It is much more fuel efficient running the engine in the 4000 - 4600, before the VTEC kicks in.

Just be careful that the idle is not set up too high. Spec says 750 plus/minus 50 in neutral. If you go too high, you can run into issues with gear damaged when shifting and it can also make it harder to move from forward or reverse to neutral.

Mike

We went fishing today and I invited the Honda mechanic to come along with us as he likes to fish. He brought with him two props a four bladed stainless steel Honda prop pitch at 17. And a three bladed stainless prop pitched at 18. We tried out the 18 pitch prop and WOT was only 5000 RPM. When we came in he put on the 17 pitch prop which he figures is the proper prop for our boat will find out next trip. We hooked up three sails today and managed to get one to the boat.also getting big a Dorado to the boat. We were out there seven hours and never once had the alarm so it looks like the increased Idle did the trick. I kept an eye on it and it seems to shift with no problems and the idle was around 750 RPM.
Not sure if any body wants to watch some fishing videos? But I have some of our Mexico fishing on YouTube Just do a search for oldgringo1948
Thanks again for the advice..oldgringo