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New rectifier - still not charging

have you looked to see what ac volts are feeding the rectifier from the stator?......thats a basic decision point...i will repeat what i said earlier...you do not need a dva adapter to see if the stator is putting out..
 
reread both the old thread and this one....if the tach is hooked up to the output of the rectifier then the charging system is working to some extent..the fact that the voltage goes up when running (even though not much) also says the same thing..a battery put out flat line dc..the charging system puts out dc with a ripple on it because it is not filtered down...a tach works off this ripple...(pulses)..
when you crank a engine and watch the meter close in a normal working system you will notice it takes a few seconds for the meter to reflect a higher charging voltage...that is because the battery is sucking amps to replace the charge that it used to crank the engine...it possible that is what you are seeing is because that battery is ALWAYS sucking high amps..have you tried another battery?..that battery you are using may have a partial short in it plus it is about 3 times the size the owners manual calls for..
its also possible that you have the wrong stator etc for this system...its also possible that the magnets have lost some of their punch..
you have,for unknown reasons, not answered some of the questions that i and others have asked...
i will be an observer and not a contributor on this problem in the future...good luck...
 
I have answered as much as I can till I get a chance to do the tests this weekend...Theres a lot thrown at me in regards to replies...(which Im very thankful for) But I dont have a chance to put any of it into action or gather the answers to troubleshooting questions during the week. Its dark by the time I get home from work. Like I said Im very thankful for all the help and replies on this matter...I have an office job these days so I do have access to this site and stay up on the responses and do my best with any questions...As far as any hands on troubleshooting Q&A It has to wait till the weekend. Trust me Im itching to get my hands on it..
 
Yeah kimcrwbr1 I read that CDI book yopu sent quite a bit yesterday. (slow day at the office) Great information in there. I call myself checkin some stuff a month or so ago - when I disconnected the battery and ran it. found out that was a bad idea -anyway I have much more information to go on now. How to check rectifier/stator. what voltages to look for and where ETC.. Tomorrow morning Ill get out there and fire it up and put all this great information from you guys to good use. I sure hope to reply with good news..well at least an answer to my problem....something like a bad stator wouldn't be good news... thanks again

Edit - about swapping those wires...I did that...the new rectifier came with 2 plain yellow wires instead of the yellow and yellow/black combo. Didnt know which one to put where on the terminal board....hooked it up and ran it..checked output voltage at battery..behaved the same, no more that 12.7V...swapped the two yellow wires ..still the same.....tach worked fine the while time.


Papyson: I did use another battery the last time I was testing it a while back - a smaller 750CCA cranking battery from my truck. No change in anything. That CDI manual says to try a known good battery with 850+ CCA the big one Im using is brand new industrial interstate battery with 950CCA. So ive tried two known good batteries - big and small. No difference.
 
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Assuming that all cables and wires have clean terminals and are securely attached in order to avoid a possible voltage drop... I question why anyone would install an accessory voltage regulator on such a low ampere charging system.

In my opinion, it's an accessory that's not needed and just something else to eventually act up within the electrical system. Frankly, I'd get rid of it.
 
I dont think its an accessory Joe - If you look at the Parts diagrams - Everything points to a 12A system and the "crankcase and cylinder" diagram shows the regulator and refers to my motor "for 135589 only" for whatever reason I believe my motor is the only one of that year & HP that came from factory with that setup. Edit- But I guess thats beside the point...it still aint workin whether Evinrude did it or Joey Bagadonuts did it. Get it figured out I will. :)
 
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Progator135 said:
I dont think its an accessory Joe - If you look at the Parts diagrams - Everything points to a 12A system and the "crankcase and cylinder" diagram shows the regulator and refers to my motor "for 135589 only"
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I do not have the wiring diagram for the 1975 model. The one I have is for the 1976 model which does not incorporate the voltage regulator. The reason I mentioned it possibly being an accessory is that I had a few of the voltage regulator kits for those models years back, selling out of them rather quickly when I closed up shop.

I did mention the necessity of having clean top quality wires and cables and tight connections... BUT... I do not remember if you stated the quality of the battery itself. If the battery quality is debatable (old, weak cell, whatever), that would have a negative bearing on the charging circuit.

If you charge the battery via other means... will it register higher than 12v on a volt meter?
 
The battery is a big new 950CCA truck battery. When fully charged its at 14V. After starting a few times it settles out at 12.6-12.8V and can maintain that throughout a days fishing with numerous starts. Saturday I pulled the stator. looked for any broken wires bad connections. Everything looked good. Ohmed the stator on the bench. I got 625 Ohms thru the brown - brown/yellow wires. (to the power pack) 225 kOhms thru the two shorter yellow ones to the terminal block. Also stator was reading 10VAC at the yellow.yellow/grey at the terminal block while running. So its putting out. I did disconnect the VR while running at the voltage did come up a little. Still never got over 12.8V. Basically straight battery voltage. Even at 2K RPM. Going to run it on the lake with the VR out of the loop and see if it gives me a more normal charging reading.
 
Yes the stator was removed and sitting on the bench. The 10 VAC was without a DVA and at idle. I was just trying to see if it was putting out anything at all. I will double check everything again. Ill make sure not to be touching the leads with my fingers when I do. ..my meter is ridiculously sensitive and can throw me off sometimes. I wrote the readings down and of course at home still on the workbench. I went to my company Christmas party Saturday evening...so my memory is a bit foggy this fine Monday morning...:rolleyes:
Thanks for the chart. According to that I should be seeing 10-20 Ohms on the yellow wires..450-600 Ohms on the brown wires...150VAC (with DVA) at the brown wires on the PP?. I was reading it from the yellow at the terminal block - with no DVA.
Edit: Maybe I checked the voltage incorrectly...had the meter set on VAC - put the red lead on the yellow wire and the black to the yellow/grey.....is that right? or should I have put the black to ground and checked each with the red lead?

And Kimcrwb1 - I shoulddnt have told you 14V. Thats what my digital charger is showing before I remove the leads...and still charging. 12.8-13V is where it is once the chargers off and it sits a while.
 
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kimcrwbr1 said:
Check the voltage at WOT without the voltage regulator at the battery. .
Click to expand...
Thats my next step.... shooting for Friday. May get some extra wire and some terminal ends and rig an extension on my voltmeter. The dash guage pretty well matches what my digital charger is reading before I unhook it. Usually 14V or more. But probably better to read it right off the battery with teh digital.
 
10-20 ohm sounds like you are reading the trigger coil instead of the charge coils..concentrate on the problem that you have..the motor runs so forget all but the charges coils right now...you have the stator on the bench...find the two wires from the charge coils... take a reading between the two wires. i would expect a reading in the 350-500 ohm range...the take a reading to ground on each lead to see if you have a ground...both should read infinity...if these readings are good then put the stator back on the motor and torgue it down...start the motor and set the rpms at 2000 and let it run..you should have all the wires hooked up....take an ac reading across the two wires feeding the rectifier regulator...get back to us with these results only...i dont mean to sound like a hardass but we are jumping around too much....we need to make a decision on the stator area and go one way or the other on the problem..
 
papyson said:
...i dont mean to sound like a hardass but we are jumping around too much....we need to make a decision on the stator area and go one way or the other on the problem..
Click to expand...

Im with you 100% there has been a lot going on with it. And my apologies for not answering any of the questions...theres a lot of em' and unfortunately I let some slip thru the cracks - I went back through and re-read everything from teh old post a month ago and this one. I think I have most covered...just need to verify those readings and make sure Im where Im supposed to be. I printed out the paged from that CDI manual that cover the checks. And will have it handy the next time I get out there.

Before I take it to the lake Friday for my WOT check I will pull the cover and check those again...However I do remember doing what you said (Edit-actually I recall now I did not have it set at 2000rpm - just idling) - I took a reading across the two yellow wires at the terminal block. (i assume these are the charge coils) , while hooked up, and running. At the terminal block. The yellow/grey is not attached to anything but the terminal block...no other wire is connected to it. and the other yellow stator wire is at the block with one of the yellow rectifier wires and the yellow lead from the regulator with it. I put the red lead on the yellow/grey and the black lead on the yellow - took the AC reading and it was 10-10.5VAC. I will still recheck - I may have misread or had the meter set wrong who knows. I was cold, irritated and had water pissin all over my feet and was trying to hurry through it.. My question is should ground the black lead and take a reading from each of those wires separately?

Kimcrwb1 - I have a digital schumaker charger. It has 2A-8A-12A settings. I charge the starting battery with the 8A - my deep cycle with the 2A. usually overnight - I hope your theory is correct...As good as this motor runs I was beginning to think that was the case...but the low charging voltage (I think) may be confirming my suspicions.
 
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I haven't read back thru all the posts/replies BUT I don't recall any actual problem being encountered such as... slow cranking speed, battery going dead or excessively losing power/voltage, etc... something that would actually indicate a charging problem. Seems to be more of a case "I think that meter should read higher" thing, or that's as good as it gets. Got me to wondering if a meter problem exists instead. Can't think of anything to add on my part so I shall depart, wish you luck, and look forward to a better year lurking just around the corner.
 
Joe - I understand...I appreciate all your help and input..but one more question..:)

.. I was reading lots of old posts and ran across something I believe you posted years ago...something along the lines of if there is/was a broken/open wire on rectifier that the stator could build up heat and cause damage. When I first got that motor and realized it wasnt charging...I found the recitfier wires completely broken off and corroded all the way down in the potting. (cant remember ecaxtly which ones now) I just KNEW this was the issue. I got a used rectifier from a donor motor at the local boat shop and with still no change in the charging voltage, I then assumed this was a 6A rectifier that was incompatable with the 12A system. So ordered new one - still no change.
Question: Could the original broken-wire rectifier caused damage to the stator? It is the green encapsulated one so no indicative dripping of wax as Ive heard of.
 
The rectifier would be the same for either of the ampere stator, and yes... it's always possdible that a failed rectifier could cause the stator to overheat to a point of being faulty but still operative of sorts.

It would be helpful if someone had a stator they could/would let you use momentarily to eliminate or prove thru that thought.
 
Yeah that would be nice... Thank you Joe...and everybody else. I know all this can be frustrating for you guys trying to help me..but the fact is - I have way more time in front of the computer than I do hovering over that old motor. By the time I have an opportunity to get to it - ive forgotten half the things I was supposed to check. Thats my fault. Ill get to the bottom of it this weekend f the weather holds out. Many many thanks to you all. Wishing you all a Merry Christmas.
Chris
 
1.take the ac voltage reading across the stator wires with everything hooked up(both the regulator input and output connected) and running 2k rpm..2.then take a reading from each stator wire to ground...3.kill the motor...4.then disconnect the stator wires for the resistance check on the two wires from the stator...5.then take a resistance reading from each wire to ground...6.write everything down as you go...keep it simple and go step by step with no deviation or side thinking needed...Merry Christmas back at ya
 
Got home early...everybody gone...perfect...
running at 2kRPM: NO DVA this is only set on AC volts on my digital meter...
yellow to yellow/brn - 13.7VAC
yellow to ground - 7.27Vac
Yellow brown to ground - 7.17VAC

Not running Ohms:
yellow to yellow/brown .4 Ohms.
yellow to ground - no reading
yell/brn to ground - no reading

Now...check this out...this might get embarrassing.
I had the Voltage regulator disconnected...I had it unplugged at the connector for Firdays test run..forgot to plug it back before the test..
Happened to look at volt gauge on dash while doing those checks...sitting at 15V - bring throttle back to idle - 12.5. Working as advertised. So the answer to my original question was as simple as disconnecting the VR and running at higher RPMS. I will NOT see that telltale increase in voltage with the regulator. Apparently it is doing what its supposed to do...regulate the voltage. Now if my battery voltage happened to drop below 12 or so...I would see it increase to 12.5. ......damn
So now that Ive made a complete ass of myself and given all of you brain damage...wish I could buy you all a beer. :eek:
 
its working so i would run it...your meter was set on the wrong scale on the ohm reading..that .4 reading is 400 ohms i suspect...and that 13.7 vac coming out of the stator is low...but you are getting something and the tach is working so run it as it is...i actually suspect that meter...merry christmas and put the cowl on it and forget this problem...
 
Thanks guys..really. Yall are awesome..sometimes peace of mind is the hardest thing to fix. Glad to finally put this one to bed. Hope yall had a Great Christmas...funny ironic ending to this mess....my wife got me a nice new on-board dual-bank battery charger for Christmas....:p
 
I have a TACH working good, strong signal on ignition / fire up but no charge. Engine will run strong all day & TAC

I have a 2001 Johnson 200 HP and she runs GREAT. nothing wrong with the motor but the electrical has been a complete night mare for me..
I Have tested with multiple meters and the engine isn't putting nothing out.. Not even at 4400 RPMS , i have no increase in voltage anywhere on the boat.She does not charge at all. When i run my tilt / trim, boat trim tabs , and when lowrance is on it dims out. I need this motor to charge :/ I'm at the point of needing to find a expert on the east coast and traveling / taking the boat to them.
I have a new CDI power pack, Stator, Voltage Regulator, Timer Base, Ignition, Battery, Perko switch, nothing. I've printed the entire CDI manual and everything is hooked up correctly. I am very mechanically inclined and patient. I've replaced about everything, I've tested ohm test on the entire ignition harness, (I have done no DVA tests, engine runs GREAT!!!) I have over 15 hours trying to troubleshoot this and i am at a total loss. I've ohm tested / checked the main (-) and main (+) off the engine going to batterys i can't find any issues with corrosion nothing, no wing nuts. I have no charge at the main starting solenoid or any wire on the boat. I really can't figure out what the issue may be and ive replaced just about every main component related to the charging system.
 
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twilly1127 said:
I have a TACH working good, strong signal on ignition / fire up but no charge. Engine will run strong all day & TAC

I have a 2001 Johnson 200 HP and she runs GREAT. nothing wrong with the motor but the electrical has been a complete night mare for me..
I Have tested with multiple meters and the engine isn't putting nothing out.. Not even at 4400 RPMS , i have no increase in voltage anywhere on the boat.She does not charge at all. When i run my tilt / trim, boat trim tabs , and when lowrance is on it dims out. I need this motor to charge :/ I'm at the point of needing to find a expert on the east coast and traveling / taking the boat to them.
I have a new CDI power pack, Stator, Voltage Regulator, Timer Base, Ignition, Battery, Perko switch, nothing. I've printed the entire CDI manual and everything is hooked up correctly. I am very mechanically inclined and patient. I've replaced about everything, I've tested ohm test on the entire ignition harness, (I have done no DVA tests, engine runs GREAT!!!) I have over 15 hours trying to troubleshoot this and i am at a total loss. I've ohm tested / checked the main (-) and main (+) off the engine going to batterys i can't find any issues with corrosion nothing, no wing nuts. I have no charge at the main starting solenoid or any wire on the boat. I really can't figure out what the issue may be and ive replaced just about every main component related to the charging system.
Click to expand...

You may have done better to have started a new thread of your own instead of resurrecting and hijacking an old thread

However you seem to have replaced an awful lot of parts. Its difficult to understand what diagnostic testing lead you replace some of them especially things that might have affected the way the motor runs but have no bearing on the charging issue

Even though you have fitted a new one I would want to check the stator coil for continuity between the two yellow wires and, if possible compare its resistance with a figure in the manual.
I would want to check the output from the stator following the procedure in the CDI troubleshooting guide. Strictly speaking this needs a peak reading meter or one with a DVA adapter. A simple AC voltage reading between the two yellows might be worth doing

If the output from the stator is normal I would check the rectifier regulator. I would remove it and do the bench testing using a multimeter with a "diode test" setting. Even though you have already replaced it you may have inadvertently blown it by connecting the battery with the polarity reversed ... doing that will fry the rectifier quicker than you can say, "Oh bother".

Check both ways between each of the yellows and red, You should get a reading one way and no reading the other way for each yellow. Then test between the case ( or black wire ) and each yellow, Again you should get a reading one way and no reading the other for each .

If the stator checks out OK and the rectifier checks out you should get a DC charging voltage on the red when installed and the motor is running. Check that the black wire, or case if there is no black wire, is properly grounded.

If your rectifier has a purple wire check that it shows the battery voltage

You may find the manual on the Boatinfo website helpful but it is a poor substitute for a proper manufacturers manual
 
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