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New waterpump led to gear-oil leak?

M

merc200dalarna

Contributing Member
Hi again, fishing season over, and the usual Before Winter overhaul of my merc 200 20hp 1972 revealed:

Almost only water came out when I drained the gear oil, seriously 99% water!!!!
It had dripped some oil when stood on stand, wich alerted me of possible leak!

No leakage through screws/ventscrew, so I turned it upside own, and it seems the new waterpump housing won't "clamp" down on the drive shaft enough to prevent leak.

I installed new waterpump housing and impeller with help here from the forum, what can I have made wrong?
Did I forget something?
Is there any remedy?
My driveshaft is of course corroded and no longer smooth where the tight seal should be, but it's micrometers we're talking, of coroded surface.
The spring loaded seal in the bottom of the waterpump housing is new with the new housing..

Once again I hope you guys can give advice how to (cheaply) save this still very functional outboarder?
 
No point talking about it.------Pressure test to find the leak.---------Then make repairs as needed.---------Perhaps a " speedy sleeve " can be used on the driveshaft.
 
Right. The new impeller made more pressure, forcing water past the seal into the LU. You need a nice, smooth surface for the new seal to seal.

Jeff
 
racerone said:
No point talking about it.------Pressure test to find the leak.---------Then make repairs as needed.---------Perhaps a " speedy sleeve " can be used on the driveshaft.
Click to expand...
It has to be some kind of DIY-fix, low on income and resources how to pressuretest.

fastjeff said:
Right. The new impeller made more pressure, forcing water past the seal into the LU. You need a nice, smooth surface for the new seal to seal.

Jeff
Click to expand...
The new impeller and housing plus new seals all the way up to the engineblock made my cooling very efficient, but you mean water pushes down rather than oil leaking up?
The oil perhaps builds up some kind of pressure when it gets agitated by 5000rpm?

kimcrwbr1 said:
When the shaft is spinning 5000 rpms those millimeters mean alot. You may not be able to find a driveshaft or even be able to take it apart to replace. First thing you do is see if the prop can even be removed. If not I doubt you can even take the gearbox apart to remove the driveshaft.
Click to expand...
The prop is almost new and has been removed, removing gearbox is not what I was hoping for, can I even find a new drivshaft?


FYI, go easy on the language, I'm Swedish ; )
 
http://i60.tinypic.com/23w5ydf.jpg
kimcrwbr1 said:
Either way you will need to pull the gearboxand determine where the water is getting in. It is possible the just pull the lower seal out of the water pump and put in a new seal just dont push it all the way in so it rides on a good part of the shaft if possible. Can you get us a picture of the driveshaft with the water pump off? You can get a good long shaft but could not find a short one on ebay. You want to flood the gearbox with oil as soon as possible and try and get all the moisture out. It dont take long for bare metal parts to start to rust. If it is salt water you need to get all the salt out also and disassembly is required.
Click to expand...
I really hope you can see the pictures, I can't seem to postmore than 1 at a time...
No it has not run in saltwater, and yes I filled up with oil from above to cover the ball bearing, will do a proper fill from below to avoid air bubbles before next spring!
Do I need lots of special tools to remove shaft and gearbox?
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
The shaft needs replaced is it a short or long shaft motor? Your best option would be to find another gearbox or just get another motor? That rust has probably got into the bearings and gears. Even if you get a shaft just taking it apart is a challenge for the most experienced mechanic. If you dont get the gear backlash perfect it will burn up the gears real fast.
Click to expand...
It's a short shaft. Well the rust isn't gonna be any better on any other shaft, other than new.
I've been tryin to figure out how to replace the shaft, but Iuess you are right it's above my skill.
What about trying to clamp the seal a bit tighter than original?
There is a spring behind the rubber seal that connects to the rod, I figured I could find one circular spring with smaller diameter and force it on there?
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
The cover nut takes a special tool and is reverse thread. If you can get the cover nut off and pull the bearing carrier for the propshaft then you have a chance if you can find a driveshaft. The seal surface needs to be smooth period you cannot change the spring in the seal but the speedi sleeve is a possibility.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Gea..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item5d5175f844&vxp=mtr
The cover nut tool looks similar to this and one can be fabbed up. I prefer using power steering fluid as a liquid wrench soak the nut good for a few days before even attempting to turn it. Then you need to figure out how to pull the propshaft bearing carrier again soak it good with powersteering fluid. I was able to use a harmonic balancer puller with some long J-bolts chemicals time and heat are your friends.
Click to expand...
I must investigate the possibility to use "SPEEDI SLEEVE", but it must be positioned along with the bearing? And to remove the bearing I guess I have to pull the shaft....
It says "off" and "on" on my cover nut, I have no "puller-rig" of any kind.

Back to speedi sleeve: that solution stops gear fluid to reach the upper side of the bearing completely???? not allowing fluid to reach "gear vent screw"?
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
No the bottom seal in the water pump is the upper gearoil seal. Have you filled the gearbox with oil yet? If not do that now to reduce the amount of rust happening. you can just fill it through the upper bearing any engine oil will protect the bare metal parts. Maybe take a drill and spin the driveshaft shift it into gear a few times drain the dirty oil and water out and fill it again. That way if you can get a speedi sleeve on it it may work for a while. My concern is if it filled with salt water the only way to get the salt out is to disassemble it and clean everything good.
Click to expand...
Yes I know what seal you talk about, but isn't speedy sleeve ment to go on top of the bearing itself? The seal in the waterpump is about 10mm above the bearing.
Do you mean to put "speedy sleeve" onto the shaft at the pumphouse?
What about those pieces that got left over in one of my pictures?
I might just have forgot one crucial part?
I just didn't find ay suitable position for them...
When I look at speedy sleeves it looks like they are ment to seal the bearing itself...

It has not been in salt water last 3 summers.
I filled up oil through the ***** bearing!
 
I install Speedi Sleeves differently (after wrecking one--and they aren't cheap!) I sand the shaft down until the sleeve slides on without forcing it, then epoxy it in place upside down. Finally, after the epoxy has cured, I chip the removable flange of the sleeve with a sharp chisel.

Works perfectly every time that way, and I haven't wrecked one since.

Jeff

PS: Don't have a lathe? Me neither, so here's what I use. A stud screwed into the end of the driveshaft spins it, with the lathe acting as a steady rest.
 

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kimcrwbr1 said:
I suppose you could just push the speedi sleeve down to the bearing as long as the sleeve rides on the lower water pump seal to keep water out of the gearbox. I just dont know how you seal the sleeve to the shaft with all that pitting. You will also lose water pressure out the upper water pump seal. Maybe put a sleeve on the upper part of the shaft after you install the impeller?
Click to expand...
The pitting is not extensive just where the seal meets shaft, it has been "agitated" all years from spinning against a seal. Hard to capture on photo, it's very up Close, and I only have phone camera..

fastjeff said:
I install Speedi Sleeves differently (after wrecking one--and they aren't cheap!) I sand the shaft down until the sleeve slides on without forcing it, then epoxy it in place upside down. Finally, after the epoxy has cured, I chip the removable flange of the sleeve with a sharp chisel.

Works perfectly every time that way, and I haven't wrecked one since.

Jeff

PS: Don't have a lathe? Me neither, so here's what I use. A stud screwed into the end of the driveshaft spins it, with the lathe acting as a steady rest.
Click to expand...
Nice DIY-rig, I culd mimic that ; ) My anvil is pretty Heavy duty.
But perhaps you could link to a Picture of a "Speedi sleeve" that would suit my needs? My drive shaft is 14,1mm where I want the seal to fit. (approx. 9/16inch??)
(Any pic of speedi sleeve will help me draw a Picture in my mind of how you do)
 
I have made my own " thinwall " stainless sleeves from old driveshafts.----------------0.010" wall thickness allows one to use the original seals.
 
Here's what they look like. Come in all kinds of sizes. Bring your wallet!


Jeff
 

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racerone said:
I have made my own " thinwall " stainless sleeves from old driveshafts.----------------0.010" wall thickness allows one to use the original seals.
Click to expand...
I could probably do that, my sister and her husband works with high end CNC machinery.
0.010" seems to be about 0,25mm. I will keep scouting the web.

fastjeff said:
Here's what they look like. Come in all kinds of sizes. Bring your wallet!


Jeff
Click to expand...
Yes, I saw them later on youtube, being aplied to different axles, really smart way to save old axles. Any homepage I can visit to see products?
I haven't found any swedish site that sells to consumers, just businesses.
But since SKF ball bearing is Swedish, I should be able to.
But if my sister could machine one in aluminum or some alloy that would be easiest.
Great thnx.
 
Don't know if anyone reads this but, what about using some brass material, like DIY brass "shim" or "sleeve"?
Don't have the exact english term for it, but that kind of brass material that comes in different thicknessess.
(I'm swedish, and in sweden) We have something we call "brass leaf". In thicknessess down to .1 of a millimeter.

Was thinking I could make a sleeve and use some heavy duty epoxi o attach it to my rusty driveshaft.
All I need is the surface of my driveshaft to seal against the rubber seal of my water pump housing!
And perhaps I dont have to use a full "ring" or "circle" of a sleeve, but have it with open ends and use the epoxi.
Just making sure the brass leaves no sharp edges.
Once fastened it will be minimal wear and tear, only a rubber surface to grind against...
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
I suppose you can try if you think you can get it to stay on the shaft and make it perfectly round.
Click to expand...
I will try, I Think, with alot of industrial grade epoxy.
And make it just perfect in length so that I can spin the shaft and use fine grain sand paper to make it a smooh Surface.
Our market for epoxies are more regulated than in America, but I will find some Heavy duty stuff.
 
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