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afishpatrol

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2006 honda 90hp model bf90a6xrta. problem happened like this, backed boat off trailer just fine, put in forward and went to the dock.
when it went to neutral it did not disengage, i then went to reverse, still did not disengage from forward.
i then started the usual rundown starting at the controls, controls worked fine, cables worked fine all the way back to the power head, checked the shaft dropping to the lower unit, it also seemed to be operating properly.
my question, is there any links between the power head and the lower unit on Honda's, or is the next link, inside the lower unit?
im very familiar with Johnson's and Evenrude's but have never gotten into the Honda's

THANK, ANDY.
 
Yes, there is a link between the upper shift lever and the vertical shaft to the lower unit.

Parts 6 and 10 are under the powerhead. http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2006/BF90A6 XRTA/SHIFT SHAFT/parts.html
If you have recently changed the water pump or had your lower unit off and the splines did not line up when you put it back AND forced the lower unit up, part 36 e ring could have popped off and the part 6 could raise up. It might get out of sync or moved away from part 10. Sometimes it happens right away or after a few shifts.

There could also be something going on in the lower unit.

Either way...it sounds like, if everything is moving properly up top, you will have to remove the lower unit.

You can check the shifting of the lower unit by rotating the nub of the shift shaft coming out of the lower unit. (the top part of part #10) http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...0A6 XRTA/WATER PUMP VERTICAL SHAFT/parts.html

The flat part of the shaft should go to the front of the engine when in neutral. Rotate the prop/prop shaft as you try to shift by hand so that the gears and clutchdog do not bind.

Likewise, have someone operate the shifter and see what the shift shaft ,(part #12 ) going up the housing, is doing and see if it will move up easily (if should not move up much at all)

Who knows something really bizarre like a broken shift shaft occurred....but not very likely.

Mike
 
Thanks Mike, a couple more questions for you that will help me determine if i want to try dropping the lower unit myself.



in this picture it is showing the shaft just above lower unit.

by working the controls i can watch this shaft twist forward and back as the controls are being operated, i assume it is working correctly to this point? is there still a link in the upper portion of the lower unit or is the next connection in the gear case itself requiring the gears to be pulled to access the connection?

a little history on the motor. I bought the boat from a friend in chicago that is the original owner, the boat/motor has never been on anything but lake michigan.
last fall it was serviced and a new impeller installed at a marina in hammond in, my friend took it out one time this spring and i have had it out twice this fall.

by looking at the schematics, it appears to be a bit more involved dropping the lower unit than the johnsons and evenrudes that i've worked on in the past.
 
Dropping the lower unit is much easier than the Evinrude/Johnson's...

The shift shaft sticks out of the gearcase a couple of inches and fits into the long shift shaft that is going up through the housing.

You should have either 2 tor 3 bolts on each side of the gearcase and one in the rear by or under the trim tab. I can not remember for sure...there are a couple of different cases.

The gearcase should then just drop right off.....no shift shaft to uncouple at the top like the Johnsons.

Do everything in neutral.

Before you put everything back together, make sure that the opening in the shiftshaft that the lower unit shaft will go into, has its flat spot facing toward the boat. Also, make sure that the flat spot on the gearcase shift shaft is facing the same way.

Look and see what they look like when you take it off. If the flat spots are not facing forward and your shifter is in neutral, then you have issues with those shafts/gears under the powerhead.

Mike
 
Thanks again Mike, i'll be dropping the lower this evening to try to diagnose the problem.
I thought the Johnsons were easy, this should be cake!
will report back with the findings.
Andy.
 
OK, The findings are like this.

1-lower unit removed, manually changing gears by twisting the shaft works fine (F to N to R)

2- as soon as lower unit was removed i checked positioning of the shaft flat spot...shaft from lower unit was in forward position (1/8th turn to right) but the flat spot in the socket end of shaft from power head was in neutral position (center, boat side)

3- no signs of the splines being striped, no burr's, no visible damage at all.

4- checked function of the controls, again, everything from the controls, cables, linkage, all the way down to the socket at the bottom of the shaft appears to be functioning properly.

5- one thing that i did notice, while in neutral i turned the drive shaft, it was very hard to turn, as it turned the impeller squeaked a lot? is that normal for a impeller to create such drag?

6- is it possible for the shaft to have lifted up enough to clear the splines causing improper positioning?



 
Rotating the vertical shaft is hard and the impeller will squeak since it is not in water.

Yes, it is possible that the long shaft going up to the powerhead and its associated parts are out of sync under the powerhead.

If you push the rod pictured in the first picture of your last post up far enough and are able to turn it by hand, then, yes, it is out of sync and the "e" ring I mentioned in my first post is no longer there.

Mike
 
well i guess i'm stumped as to why this happened, there is only about 1/8'' to 3/16th'' travel in the shaft and will not budge when turned.
any other thoughts of things to check before i re install the lower unit and try it out?
 
I don't know of anything else to check.

Put it all back together with everything in the neutral position and see what happens.

Once again, you can check the shifting when all it back together WITH THE ENGINE NOT RUNNING
 
Have someone turn the prop counterclockwise as you shift into forward and clockwise as you shift it into reverse. The prop should lock up each time you go into gear.

Mike
 
OK Mike, talk me thru this and i'l put a check in the mail to ya!
lower unit has been re installed, went into gear fine, when put back to neutral it failed to change back.

So i removed the lower again and after a little more checking I measured the depth of the socket and the rise of the shaft coming out of the lower...the splines barely reach into the socket?

in this picture below you can see by the grease ring how much vertical travel there is in the shaft, is this normal?


again, twisting the shaft by hand the gears function accordingly.
does honda give a spec on how high the shaft should rise above the lower unit in order to reach into the socket?

these pictures below show the washer and E clip holding the shaft just below the power head, these two pics show how much travel there is in this shaft, again is this normal?

this pic is letting the shaft set as normal.



this pic is the same, only lifting up on the shaft.


any suggestion on what might be causing the lack of the shaft reaching into the socket?
 
I tried to post last night but a box popped up saying that a moderator had to approve the post? not sure why after all the posts i've already made on this thread, but, after thinking about it in bed last night, here is what i found this morning.

my post last night showed the vertical movement in the shaft coming down from the power head, roughly 1/4'' between the washer, E clip and bottom of the power head.
my findings this morning, as shown in below pics, show some vertical travel in the shaft where it goes into part #6 after pulling down on the shaft to its stopping point, this will put it in the position that lower unit shaft will completely engage the splines into the socket.

this pic shows the shaft under the power head where the E clip is located.


this is the same pic only after i pulled down on the shaft.


What are your thoughts, the shaft pulls down to that point but bottoms out as if the #13 ring stopper is still intact.

any of you honda owners out there, if you could look at your motor and tell me if the shaft coming out of your power head has the splines showing like in the above photo.
 
The shaft should move in and out yet be retained by #13 ring stopper. If you give if a good tug, it will come loose.

The main thing to see in that picture, which I can not, is the washer and e ring that hold the part that the shaft is going into in place. If you can see the e ring in its slot, then the shift shafts under the power head should still be in sync.

I just can not see it in the pictures.

Mike
 
that is what you are seeing in both of the pics, it shows the washer and Eclip just below the coweling of the power head.
i pulled a little more on the upper shaft and it came down further than it shows in the bottom pic, revealing more of the splines!

I realize the ring stopper keeps the shaft from coming down, but what stops the upward travel of the shaft?
 
Never thought about it. I would assume that it either bottoms out or runs out of spline.

If you think it is not going far enough, could the shaft be stopped by too much grease in either the top end or the bottom end of the shaft?

Mike
 
well the boat got dropped off at the marina today, i will post a report of the results when i get it back, hopefully there will still be some fishing season left!

thanks for all your help Mike.

andy.
 
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