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AQ280 Prop rotation

OH im not disagreeing with you at all!
IM doing the test exactly as the manual states, but i do see the value of a longer low pressure test also.
In my line of work we use helium(@3psi) and a sniffer to find leaks sometimes. Fuel tanks in aircraft.
I Like your go/no go analogy. I use go/no go pin gauges daily! YOU Can't see it but there is a difference between Class 1,2,3 fit!

If some one altered our test procedure outlined by our Engineers and FAA they would be looking for a job!
 
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PatinIdaho said:
HI. Yes that is the test but if you notice it has no mention of a time or pressure over 3 minutes. That might be all the factory recommends though i don't know so that is why im fallowing Ricardos suggestion.
After all he is a old gray haired librarian by day, and a grocery store stock boy by night.
So i will be fallowing his advise to get this project all bagged up and on the water!
Click to expand...
Hey.... who are you calling an old gray haired librarian by day, and a grocery store stock boy by night? :mad: ............. :D


sandkicker said:
Yes, the longer the better is true, but.... the intent of the limits in the OEM manual are to establish a go/no-go for the drive. Lets say for example you test the drive and all is OK @ 3 mins, but at 1 hour ( or 20 mins?) it has dropped more than the specified limit. What are you going to do? Look for the leak? Tear down the drive? At that slow a leak rate finding the leak may be challanging.
Click to expand...
Bill, good points.
If it's late in the day, I will generally leave my test equipment attached for the night.


PatinIdaho said:
OH im not disagreeing with you at all!
IM doing the test exactly as the manual states, but i do see the value of a longer low pressure test also.
Pat, I have seen these hold over-night many times after having done a complete re-seal.

Since I also recieve/ship only parts of these drives for service work, I built myself a fixture that allows me to test a transmission or lower unit without having the entire drive to work with.
Otherwise, there's no way to test a transmission only without the Intermediate and lower unit.... or visa-versa.


In my line of work we use helium(@3psi) and a sniffer to find leaks sometimes. Fuel tanks in aircraft.
It would be interesting to see how helium would hold in these drives.

I Like your go/no go analogy. I use go/no go pin gauges daily! YOU Can't see it but there is a difference between Class 1,2,3 fit!
Pat, that was Bill's Go/No Go analogy.... I like it also.

If some one altered our test procedure outlined by our Engineers and FAA they would be looking for a job!
I'm keeping my librarian and stock boy jobs! :p
Click to expand...


.
 
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Welp the test in the manual went fine.
After doing the test as the manual states i then used 5kpa both + & -
Vacuum held for 3hrs with no loss.
Positive was overnight about 8hrs with no loss either so im calling it good to go:D

So now just got to find a prop i want to order. I realize they all do the same for long/short hub
What would you prefer to see on a long shaft, long hub or short?

Lets see whats left. Turned into more then what i though it started out to be i think.

New valve cover gaskets(need to get)

Install new impeller(have)

New exhaust gaskets Manifold and riser(have)

Exhaust hose(ordered, waiting for it to arrive)

Drill holes in new dash panel for gauges(have)

See if i can free up the steering cable. Its stiff but turns fully both directions. It is the cable for sure, not the steering fork bushings

Install new gauges(have)

Make holes for new Rocker style switches(have). Had broken toggle switches.

Install new spark plugs and wires(have)

New alternator belt(need to get)

Oil, Filter. Engine, Outdrive(have)

Wire everything back up with out releasing any magic smoke! This is going to give me more gray hair

Battery box(need to get)

Trailer bearing seals(need to get)

New submersible LED trailer lights(ordered waiting to arrive)

Wait for better weather to test run it on muffs. Only 15 degrees here right now
Start it, Adjust timing and adjust rebuilt carb(re adjust carb at lake in water in gear)
Just another month and the weather should be better but damn it's going to be a LONG month:rolleyes:
Can't wait to fully uncover it and take some good pics so you can see what you have been helping me with!

OHYA Wish they still made what you see in the pic!
 

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PatinIdaho said:
Welp the test in the manual went fine.
After doing the test as the manual states i then used 5kpa both + & -
Vacuum held for 3hrs with no loss.
Positive was overnight about 8hrs with no loss either so im calling it good to go:D
Yeah!

So now just got to find a prop i want to order. I realize they all do the same for long/short hub
What would you prefer to see on a long shaft, long hub or short?

Well, let's talk about the shaft length again.
The 250/270/275 style shaft is indeed shorter.... and the 280/285/290 style is indeed longer.
However, we don't concern ourselves with that, because when the correct spacer/line cutter is installed, each nets the same length of usuable splines, etc.

In other words........ without the correct spacer/line cutter on the prop shaft......., no prop (short or long hub) will work correctly.

So... in essence, it doesn't matter in terms of short/long shafts.... until you consider that the 270 exhaust outlet won't allow for the Large Prop, nor is the prop shaft threaded for the spinner center keeper bolt that is required for the long hub prop.

Your 280 prop shaft will allow for either length prop hub.
However, with a long hub prop, you must have the 2pc spinner, in which case only the AFT section of the spinner is used.... along with the center keeper bolt.


New exhaust gaskets Manifold and riser(have)
No risers/spacers with this exhaust system.... only mans and elbows.


See if i can free up the steering cable. Its stiff but turns fully both directions. It is the cable for sure, not the steering fork bushings
That is good to hear.


Oil, Filter. Engine, Outdrive(have)
Remember that the 280 uses 30W engine oil... not gear oil.



Wait for better weather to test run it on muffs. Only 15 degrees here right now
Start it, Adjust timing and adjust rebuilt carb(re adjust carb at lake in water in gear)
When you time the ignition system, be sure to look at the progressive and total advance.

Just another month and the weather should be better but damn it's going to be a LONG month:rolleyes:
Can't wait to fully uncover it and take some good pics so you can see what you have been helping me with!
I will look forward to them.

OHYA Wish they still made what you see in the pic!
Unfortunately, the 280 outlet flapper was never available over the parts counter..... it was a production item only.
Click to expand...
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by PatinIdaho
Welp the test in the manual went fine.
After doing the test as the manual states i then used 5kpa both + & -
Vacuum held for 3hrs with no loss.
Positive was overnight about 8hrs with no loss either so im calling it good to go:D
Yeah!
I know, right:)

So now just got to find a prop i want to order. I realize they all do the same for long/short hub
What would you prefer to see on a long shaft, long hub or short?

Well, let's talk about the shaft length again.
The 250/270/275 style shaft is indeed shorter.... and the 280/285/290 style is indeed longer.
However, we don't concern ourselves with that, because when the correct spacer/line cutter is installed, each nets the same length of usuable splines, etc.

In other words........ without the correct spacer/line cutter on the prop shaft......., no prop (short or long hub) will work correctly.

So... in essence, it doesn't matter in terms of short/long shafts.... until you consider that the 270 exhaust outlet won't allow for the Large Prop, nor is the prop shaft threaded for the spinner center keeper bolt that is required for the long hub prop.

Your 280 prop shaft will allow for either length prop hub.
However, with a long hub prop, you must have the 2pc spinner, in which case only the AFT section of the spinner is used.... along with the center keeper bolt.

So i'll just order the same style as what i have. But i dunno if the one i have is long or short? Can you tell from the pic?





New exhaust gaskets Manifold and riser(have)
No risers/spacers with this exhaust system.... only mans and elbows.
Your correct. After all the Librarian knows all. I must remember that:rolleyes:


See if i can free up the steering cable. Its stiff but turns fully both directions. It is the cable for sure, not the steering fork bushings
That is good to hear.


Oil, Filter. Engine, Outdrive(have)
Remember that the 280 uses 30W engine oil... not gear oil.
Yup have 3 qts just waiting to be put to good use.



Wait for better weather to test run it on muffs. Only 15 degrees here right now
Start it, Adjust timing and adjust rebuilt carb(re adjust carb at lake in water in gear)
When you time the ignition system, be sure to look at the progressive and total advance.

Just another month and the weather should be better but damn it's going to be a LONG month:rolleyes:
Can't wait to fully uncover it and take some good pics so you can see what you have been helping me with!
I will look forward to them.

OHYA Wish they still made what you see in the pic!
Unfortunately, the 280 outlet flapper was never available over the parts counter..... it was a production item only.
 
Might be needing to post this in the electrical forum?

The tilt toggle switch is looking pretty out of place with all the new gauges and rocker switches i have so im wondering if i can replace it with a rocker switch that operates as (on) off (on) and a led for the light?
 
Well through research i answered my switch question and i went ahead and ordered a 15X17P LH prop.
Done ordering for a while!!!!!
 
...........................

PatinIdaho said:
So now just got to find a prop i want to order. I realize they all do the same for long/short hub
What would you prefer to see on a long shaft, long hub or short?

Well, let's talk about the shaft length again.
The 250/270/275 style shaft is indeed shorter.... and the 280/285/290 style is indeed longer.
However, we don't concern ourselves with that, because when the correct spacer/line cutter is installed, each nets the same length of usuable splines, etc.

In other words........ without the correct spacer/line cutter on the prop shaft......., no prop (short or long hub) will work correctly.

So... in essence, it doesn't matter in terms of short/long shafts.... until you consider that the 270 exhaust outlet won't allow for the Large Prop, nor is the prop shaft threaded for the spinner center keeper bolt that is required for the long hub prop.

Your 280 prop shaft will allow for either length prop hub.
However, with a long hub prop, you must have the 2pc spinner, in which case only the AFT section of the spinner is used.... along with the center keeper bolt.

So i'll just order the same style as what i have. But i dunno if the one i have is long or short?

Can you tell from the pic?


 I can't tell from the image whether your have a full spinner, or the AFT section of the 2pc spinner.

With a long hub prop, the prop shaft splines will be recessed within the female splines of the hub.
This does not leave us with enough shaft threads to secure the full spinner nor propeller to the shaft.
This means that the AFT section ONLY of the 2pc spinner will reach in and will accommodate for the recess.
Since the prop shaft splines are recessed, the SS locking tab washer is left with ZERO to attach to..... so, the center keeper bolt must be used.

With a short hub prop, the prop shaft splines will sit "proud" of the female splines of the hub.
Therefor the full spinner, or both sections of the 2pc spinner, will work.
Since the prop shaft splines sit "proud" of the female splines, the SS locking tab washer keys into the splines, and the tabs are then folded for the "lock".
Therefor the center keeper bolt is now optional.



Wait for better weather to test run it on muffs. Only 15 degrees here right now
Start it, Adjust timing and adjust rebuilt carb(re adjust carb at lake in water in gear)
When you time the ignition system, be sure to look at the progressive and total advance.
I cannot emphasize well enough of the importance of this.
Click to expand...
 
Its a full 1pc spinner. I ordered a long long hub.

I have no way to check the advance curve and no one around here can do it that i know of. I can tell you the weights are not stuck and move freely as they should and the pins they mount to are in good shape as well as the weights.
 
....................

PatinIdaho said:
Its a full 1pc spinner. I ordered a long hub.
That will work, but you'll need the aft section of the 2pc spinner and center locking bolt.

I have no way to check the advance curve and no one around here can do it that i know of.
If up for the task, your balancer can be marked off (see second image at bottom).
Then as you strobe the timing marks (as engine speed is increased), you will be able to see the mechanical advance.
You should be seeing a fairly linear curve until the "full-in" rpm is reached.

Keep in mind that the vertical scale DOES NOT include BASE or Initial advance.
BASE/Initial is simply a result of the housing's position before any mechanical advance RPM occurs.

However, as you strobe the timing marks, BASE/Initial will be seen as part of the over-all advance as engine speed is increased.


(Example curve only)
attachment.php


I can tell you the weights are not stuck and move freely as they should and the pins they mount to are in good shape as well as the weights.
This will allow you to verify it. Hopefully all is good.
Click to expand...
 

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PatinIdaho said:
GREAT info and the prop pic is the best explanation i have seen by far anyplace!
Click to expand...

Send money to bank account XXXXXXXXXXX! ;):D


Pat, over the years I've seen way too much misinformation regarding this.
Even by Volvo Penta techs, and prop shops. :eek:

Once the idea is explained, and once a person see the parts needed, it's fairly easy to see.


.
 
Thanks Ricardo.
Just a question.
I cruze ebay for Volvo Penta stuff often and i often see lower units listed with a gear ratio. I thought all 280 lower units were the same and the transmission had the different ratios
Am i misunderstanding?
 
PatinIdaho said:
Thanks Ricardo.
Just a question.
I cruze ebay for Volvo Penta stuff often and i often see lower units listed with a gear ratio. I thought all 280 lower units were the same and the transmission had the different ratios
Am i misunderstanding?
Click to expand...
Yes, you are thinking of the Mercruiser A drives.

jeffnick said:
The lower unit determines the ratio.
Click to expand...
Jeff is correct! If we stay within the AQ series drives, the over-all or final gear reduction is determined by the lower unit gears.

However, there is one exception to this, and that is with the Diesel "E" drive.
The E transmission reduction is a tab bit greater, allowing (for example) a 1.78:1 Duo Prop lower unit to offer an over-all or final gear reduction of 1.95:1.
(the 1.78:1 DP gear set is slightly stronger than a 1.95:1 set..... and this is how V/P gets to it)


PatinIdaho said:
So all 280 transmissions are the same?
Click to expand...
In terms of gear reduction, yes!


.
 
Heck thats nice to know. I have seen some transmissions sell for a affordable price but with the listed wrong gear ratio for my V8. So maybe a spare is a good idea!
 
PatinIdaho said:
1..... I have seen some transmissions sell for a affordable price but with the listed wrong gear ratio for my V8.
2..... So maybe a spare is a good idea!
Click to expand...

1.... Pat, it's quite common to see the Volvo Penta parts listed incorrectly. Average Joe seller just doesn't know what he has.


2.... I've been doing the AQ series repair for 23 years or so.
Each of the older drives have what Volvo Penta has called a PZNR number. This is a serial number plus a ratio ID number.
The number is good ONLY if someone has not changed an upper or lower unit.

Transmissions ending in the alpha character "B" were to be found behind V-8 power..... 1.61:1 overall reduction.
Transmissions ending in the alpha character "C" were to be found behind the inline 6 cylinder..... 1.89:1 overall reduction.
Transmissions ending in the alpha character "D" were to be found behind the inline or OHC 4 cylinder..... 2.15:1 overall reduction.

Of all the service work that I've done to these over the years, I see the transmissions behind V-8 power more so in need of Main Drive Gear bearings.
I rarely see the transmissions that have been behind smaller engines in need of these bearings.
The other two large angular contact bearings appear to survive very well!

Point being, if you do pick up a transmission for a spare, buy one with the PZNR number ending in the alpha character "D".
Or..... tear yours down, and replace the two main drive gear bearings and do a re-seal at the same time.

If these two bearings are good and are adjusted correctly, and if the seals are keep in good condition, and if the 30W drive oil remains clean, these will go for years and years without any trouble.


NOTE: we cannot simply swap transmissions from one Intermediate housing to another, nor swap lower units from one Intermediate housing to another, without going through the shimming procedure.
This is a critical procedure that must be done!



.
 
Back to post 105.
Turns out the gauge set i ordered has a volt gauge. Did not even realize that. My old gauge was a amp gauge.
Going to be working on wiring all week i think. Just seems to go slow when your figuring it all out!
 
Ok So i tried my new long hub prop on and it hits the little trim tab. I notice it is off set a little bit where the bolt attaches to it.
I assume it is just a simple matter of turning it around so the short side is near the prop?

Also i wonder if anyone can post a pic of there 290 lower unit exhaust outlet. Top, Side and bottom. For my little flapper conversion.
 
.............................

PatinIdaho said:
Ok So i tried my new long hub prop on and it hits the little trim tab. I notice it is off set a little bit where the bolt attaches to it.
I assume it is just a simple matter of turning it around so the short side is near the prop?
The short side is supposed to be FWD.
Someone has installed it incorrectly.
8236.jpg



Also i wonder if anyone can post a pic of there 290 lower unit exhaust outlet. Top, Side and bottom. For my little flapper conversion.
http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7744020-44-17980.aspx
Click to expand...
 
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Nice. It should be easy to turn it the proper way and should clear then.

More looking for actual pictures as i like the squared off look of the newer drives and with a few good clear pics i might be able to recreate it on my 280.
From the pics i can see on Ebay it looks it can be done with a little patience bit i need some clear pics of the actual unit to start with.
 
Oh Almost forgot. Here is a pic of my new dash. Almost done:cool:
Still have a little wiring to do on the boat. Hope it is just plug/play easy.
 

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Well productive last week.
Got my electronics mostly done and had it fired up and running. YEAH!;):cool: Had it running for about a hour adjusting timing,carb and trying to fine tune it.
BUT after running my tilt motor a few times(with engine off) the tilt motor died:mad:. It was replaced with a new one the day before i bought it. I could hear the relays working but no movement. Yarded the complete unit out and took it apart. Hmmm motor runs perfect on the bench. Took the actual tilt unit doohickey thing apart and the innards looked perfect but the shaft was frozen and would not budge.
Funny it was moving up and down a hour earlier.
Had to use a hammer and a punch to get it out. Once out i polished the shaft and bore and it would not slide smooth.
I could force it though with hand pressure. Started looking at it real close and found the woodruff key was dinged up.
Got that cleaned up and it was sliding in and out smooth as glass.
Reinstalled it, hit the button and nothing except the clicking of the relays.:mad::mad:
Checked all my connections and there good.
Looking around more i found a hidden 50amp fuse blown down by the starter behind a hose:rolleyes:
So now about 4 hours later the tilt doohickey thing works great:D
So i still have about 6 hours of work left not counting what else will inevitably pop up, but its close
 
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When i added new gauges and switches for the tilt i used a (on) off (on) momentary switch and 1 LED for the light. The LED comes on when the drive is completely down.
Is there a way to add another LED to come on when the drive reaches the full up position?

Hoping to get my first lake test run done next weekend.
I have had it running on the muffs for about an hour total now and have it purring like a kitten once started.
Choke works as it should so i suspect i just need to learn a decent starting procedure.
 
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