BF130A2 - what is the 2 for? SBMA200304

I am hoping they are not saying that ALL BF130 motors with a frame number lower than BZBE 1302748 have an issue, including BZBE 1202000I am hoping a 2001 BZBE 12XXXXXX is not a BF10A2
Service Bulletin
BULLETIN NO : SBMA200304
BULLETIN TO : MARINE DEALERS
ATTENTION : Marine Service Department
DATE : February 2003
SUBJECT : BF 115/130 Heads cracking

Symptom
Engine idle is unstable and water can be found in the combustion chamber.
Cause
A crack develops between the number 2 and number 3 cylinders allowing water to enter into thecombustion chamber.
Corrective Action
A cooling water jacket passage has been added in the cylinder head to help the engine have amore even flow of coolant water. The thermostat valve opening temperature has been changed from72 to 60 degrees Celsius to reduce the coolant temperature.Before C/M After C/M

New water jacket


Application on the production line
This means any serial number less than the serial number below may be affected!
Model Serial Prefix Serial No. FRT
BF 115A2 BZBD 1300690 3.4
BZBG 1300035
BF 115A3 BZBD 1400001
BZBG 1400001
BF130A2 BZBE 1302748
BZBH 1300363
BF130A3 BZBE 1400001
BZBH 1400001

Warranty Information
The numbers circled below refer to the numbers on the warranty claim form. When completing your warranty claim make sure the information in the following warranty claim field is the same as shownbelow. All other fields (boxes) must be completed as per normal.13

13 Fault code� 599
14 F.R.T.-3.4
19 Main Casual Part- 12201-ZW5-010ZA
20 QTY- 0
Warranty Application-
Ordinary (
normal domestic and commercial warranty applies
)
Replacement part number
Cylinder head sub assy(no cam or valves)- 12201-ZW5-020ZA QTY 1
Gasket head- 12251-ZW5-023 QTY 1
Thermostat(60 Deg)- 19300-ZY3-023 QTY 1
OR
Cylinder head and cam-assy- 12215-ZW5-020ZA QTY 1
Gasket head- 12251-ZW5-023 QTY 1
Thermostat(60 Deg)- 19300-ZY3-023 QTY 1

PLEASE ENSURE ALL RELEVANT STAFF ARE AWARE OF THIS BULLETIN AND ITSCONTENTS.

From the looks of how this is written, you are probably not in the USA....so the following info on serial numbers and model numbers may not be the same in your country.

A1 means 2001
A2 means 2002


In the USA, we have a range of serial numbers the "may be affected". That means that they may or may not have a problem.

The range is BZBE-1201322 - 1700019.

It actually gets more complex....the Serial numbers before the 1201322 had potential cracks in the cylinder block. If they did, we replaced the complete powerhead with new head. That potentially threw them into the range above.

I am not sure if that helps, but I how it gives a little insight.

Mike

Thanks
that helps
Wondering if a BEBE 1014621 head (on a BZBE 1201853 2001 USA bf130a frame) has a potential water jacket issue

That frame number is just outside the range of the affected units...so it "should" be ok.

Mike

Hi Mike,
just to clarify,

That frame number is just outside the range of the affected units...so it "should" be ok.

Click to expand...

are you saying that the BEBE 1014621 head (on a BZBE 1201853 2001 USA bf130a frame) Moezilla mentioned is just outside the range for possible cracked engine block, but in the range for possible cylinder head cracks(as per the above service bulletin) ?
For those interested here is the cylinder head modification as shown in the shop manual
View attachment Honda BF130 Service Manual Supplement 001.pdf
which appears to coincide with the frame numbers mentioned in the service bulletin above, which is the change from cylinder head part #12201 ZW5 010ZA to 12201 ZW5 020ZA.

Bob

It seems it is difficult to say without scans of the printed service bulletins, as there are web pages on the internet that are from other forums or blogs where the information was improper;y pasted or attributed to the wrong bulletin. (I found two with incorrect information)
I was hoping the actual head serial number would be tied or not tied to a service bulletin.

thanks bobmech! At first I thought it was a retrofit, but I can now see that document you attached
describes the design change on the production line, starting with BZBE-1302748.
So anything prior to BZBE-1302748 has the older heads that had the design flaw (lack of the long water gallery)
I believe the reason they kept it such a secret is that the only retrofit was to replace the head with a new head.



Service Bulletin
BULLETIN NO : SBMA200304
BULLETIN TO : MARINE DEALERS
ATTENTION : Marine Service Department
DATE : February 2003
SUBJECT : BF 115/130 Heads cracking


Symptom
Engine idle is unstable and water can be found in the combustion chamber.
Cause
A crack develops between the number 2 and number 3 cylinders allowing water to enter into the combustion chamber.
Corrective Action
A cooling water jacket passage has been added in the cylinder head to help the engine have a more even flow of coolant water. The thermostat valve opening temperature has been changed from 72 to 60 degrees Celsius to reduce the coolant temperature.


This means any serial number less than the serial number below may be affected!
Model
Serial Prefix Serial
BF115A2
BZBD 1300690
BZBG 1300035


BF 115A3
BZBD 1400001
BZBG 1400001


BF130A2
BZBE 1302748
BZBH 1300363


BF130A3
BZBE 1400001
BZBH 1400001







anything prior to these numbers has a high risk for head cracking

MODEL
BF115A
BF130A
FRAME SERIAL NUMBER
BZBD-1 300690 and subsequent
BZBG- 1300035 and subsequent
BZBE-1302748 and subsequent
BZBH- 1300363 and subsequent

As I remember, when we changed out the complete power head (block and head....ready to go), we had to use the old valve cover, that has the serial number on it.

Depending on when the powerhead was changed, it could have given a new power head the serial number of an older engine (earlier in the frame serial number sequence). So, you can not really go by the engine number in this sequence of events.

That does not help in trying to figure out what you have.

But as they say....it is what it is...

Mike

hondadude said:

As I remember, when we changed out the complete power head (block and head....ready to go), we had to use the old valve cover, that has the serial number on it.

Depending on when the powerhead was changed, it could have given a new power head the serial number of an older engine (earlier in the frame serial number sequence). So, you can not really go by the engine number in this sequence of events.

That does not help in trying to figure out what you have.

But as they say....it is what it is...

Mike

Click to expand...

thanks - that is great info!
In my case the owner bought it new and they only notified him for the relay recall.. And they did not inspect the head for cracks or at least they did not write the inspection date in the cowl

I imagine a head is impossible to find now, so that is why nobody wants these motors (at least the motors before BZBE-1302748, where they added the water galley and changed the head gasket to allow for flow) It appears to be not a manufacturing error on some motors but a design flaw that shows up with a rapid change in temperature and the head will crack.

Based on the information from Boatsnet, there were 3 different cyl heads supplied for the BF130.
12201 ZW5 000ZA
12201 ZW5 010ZA
12201 ZW5 020ZA

1999 up to engine serial #1013621
12201 ZW5 000ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 010ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 020ZA Pri

2000 up to engine serial #1013621
12201 ZW5 000ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 010ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 020ZA Pri

2001 up to engine serial #1013621
12201 ZW5 000ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 010ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 020ZA Pri

2002 up to engine serial # 1019107
12201 ZW5 010ZA Sup
12201 ZW5 020ZA Pri

2003
12201 ZW5 020ZA Pri

2004
12201 ZW5 020ZA Pri

To summarize,
1999 - 2001, up to engine serial number(not frame number) 1013621, the 12201 ZW5 000ZA cyl head was used.
Then 2002, from engine serial number 1013621 to 1019107, the 12201 ZW5 010ZA cyl head was used.
Then 2003 onwards, and from engine serial number 1019107 (frame number BZBE 1302748 and BZBH 1300363) onwards, the 12201 ZW5 020ZA cyl head was used.

And the new replacement cyl head for all models is the 12201 ZW5 020ZA.

Here is a pic of the early type head, not sure if it's a 000ZA or 010ZA.


and here is a pic of the later type head 020ZA.


You will notice that the later cyl head has the water galleries added on the exhaust(hot) side of the head, and the water gallery(hole) just above the red circle and between the combustion chambers in the early cyl head pic has been blocked off presumably to strengthen that area preventing cracks,and relocated closer to the head bolt hole.

Of course you have to keep in mind what Mike has said

As I remember, when we changed out the complete power head (block and head....ready to go), we had to use the old valve cover, that has the serial number on it.

Click to expand...

which would also apply to changing just the head, in which case everything I have just told you regarding engine serial numbers may be useless.... lol

To help Moezilla and others hopefully Mike or someone else knows of a way of identifying which cylinder head is fitted to an engine by some sort of identification marking or external casting difference ? instead of using the engine serial number.

Aluminium cracks easily if cooled quickly when hot.
So when you switch off your hot engine, the cooling water drains out.
Then if you restart your engine while it is still hot, you are filling it quickly with cold water, increasing the risk of cracking.
So with an engine vulnerable to cracking, a good idea would be to not restart the engine until it has had time to cool somewhat, maybe 20 min, otherwise leave it running until you're sure you won't need to restart for say 20 min, e.g. you get to your fishing spot & lay the anchor, but leave the motor running until you're sure your boat is where you want it, just in case you have to retrieve the anchor, start the motor & move the boat.
This may seem like a pain to do, but you would get used to it, think of it as a form of insurance against cracking your cyl head.
I have a relative who is a pilot who told me one of the air ambulance planes he flies must be gradually slowed down over a period of approx 10 minutes prior to landing otherwise it can crack cylinder heads !!
To reduce the temperature and chance of cracking a head you could also change the 72 deg thermostat (if that is what you have) to the 60 deg thermostat 19300 ZY3 023 mentioned in the service bulletin, after all the later BF130, the BF135, BF150, BF175, BF200, & BF225 all run 60 deg thermostats.

Bob

Nice synopsis of the history of the 130 head.

I can not say I paid that much attention to the details, as you researched them. It has seemed that if our customers did not have a problem in the early years of their motor usage, they have not had an issue yet.

Only had a couple heads that we had to replace after we spent almost all winter one year, doing almost nothing but powerhead changes.

Mike

bobmech said:

Aluminium cracks easily if cooled quickly when hot.
So when you switch off your hot engine, the cooling water drains out.
Then if you restart your engine while it is still hot, you are filling it quickly with cold water, increasing the risk of cracking.
So with an engine vulnerable to cracking, a good idea would be to not restart the engine until it has had time to cool somewhat, maybe 20 min, otherwise leave it running until you're sure you won't need to restart for say 20 min, e.g. you get to your fishing spot & lay the anchor, but leave the motor running until you're sure your boat is where you want it, just in case you have to retrieve the anchor, start the motor & move the boat.
This may seem like a pain to do, but you would get used to it, think of it as a form of insurance against cracking your cyl head.
I have a relative who is a pilot who told me one of the air ambulance planes he flies must be gradually slowed down over a period of approx 10 minutes prior to landing otherwise it can crack cylinder heads !!
To reduce the temperature and chance of cracking a head you could also change the 72 deg thermostat (if that is what you have) to the 60 deg thermostat 19300 ZY3 023 mentioned in the service bulletin, after all the later BF130, the BF135, BF150, BF175, BF200, & BF225 all run 60 deg thermostats.

Bob

Click to expand...

I get the part about the pilot slowing down fort the last 10 minutes, but I don't understand the cooling before restart (I do understand it for a car) : isn't the cooling water ALWAYS cold, no matter how hot the engine is? Even if the cooling path is impeller->exhaust manifold -> cylinders->head-> head pipe-> exhaust (t to pisser) -> water box-> exhaust output, then it is still similar... even with an extremely hot running engine, the water from the impeller is still ice cold, and not recirculating like a car or a fresh water cooled engine with a heat exchanger

Here is the Yamaha version - it is water pump directly to block then head then thermostat



the only thing that would make sense to me would be if the head rises to far above 200 degrees after a shutoff, and then immediate start, in which case it would make sense to idle for a bit after a fast run, which is what all of use do anyway.

If the heads are very hot, then the cylinder walls / block are also hot, so the water would be warmed by them before reaching the head.

If the heads are very hot, then the cylinder walls / block are also hot, so the water would be warmed by them before reaching the head.

Click to expand...

Hi Moezilla
the hottest part of the motor is the cyl head which is temperature controlled by the thermostat.
While the head is hot, the block is often only warm or even cold(unlike the later BF135/150 which has 2 separate thermostats, one for the block and one for the head) due to a certain amount of constant water flow through the block.
The way I see it, is that the cold water is pumped into the block under pressure, and in doing so has almost immediate contact with the gasket side of the head as it fills, which I would expect to take a matter of seconds, maybe 5-10 secs starting at cyl #4 at the bottom.
I don't think the water would have sufficient time to warm-up before reaching the cyl head, even if the block was hot.

Bob

bobmech said:

Hi Moezilla
the hottest part of the motor is the cyl head which is temperature controlled by the thermostat.
While the head is hot, the block is often only warm or even cold(unlike the later BF135/150 which has 2 separate thermostats, one for the block and one for the head) due to a certain amount of constant water flow through the block.
The way I see it, is that the cold water is pumped into the block under pressure, and in doing so has almost immediate contact with the gasket side of the head as it fills, which I would expect to take a matter of seconds, maybe 5-10 secs starting at cyl #4 at the bottom.
I don't think the water would have sufficient time to warm-up before reaching the cyl head, even if the block was hot.

Bob

Click to expand...

thanks - that would mean no difference between a running engine and one just started- even with a hot engine, the cold lake/ ocean/bay water would never have time to be warmed enough