AQ130C / 280 Rebuild / Maintenance / Whatever?

So I'm entirely new to this forum (in case you couldn't tell for some reason). I came into a 16' Double Eagle boat with trailer for a song and a dance (well, just the dance, I can't sing worth a darn). It had been sold locally in 83, and spent it's whole life here (Sunshine Coast, BC), but the main reason I got it? No engine! I have the outdrive, and the hull is solid and intact, just no engine for it.

I did some research with Double Eagle, and found out what it had in it when it was new. I spent a few months trying to find a matching or similar engine (AQ125A) that I could mate up to the already installed transom shield and the 270 leg I have on hand. I managed to come across an entire engine and outdrive that had only ever been used in fresh water that I managed to pick up for $500 through eBay (the guy had also listed it on CL for $1700, but I wound up being the only bid). A 17 hour trip to Oregon and back to pick it up (along with a ton of boat hardware he threw in to be rid of it) and I now have a complete power plant for the boat that isn't too dissimilar to what the boat shipped with originally.

I've been reading a TON of forum posts, and trying to find what manuals I can, etc. I tried to remove the outdrive from the transom shield (the boat had been sawzalled away from the shield and engine, so was all one unit), but unfortunately could not drive out one of the pivot pins, and snapped the head off the keeper screw for the OTHER pivot pin. Luckily I have a whole other shield and outdrive to take parts from. I was able to undo the bolts in the collar, and pull the entire leg and transom shield off the engine (suggestion, do NOT do it alone...on the hill where you unloaded the engine from the truck).

It has a fairly heavy oil leak from the flywheel cover, so I currently am working on getting at the seal to replace it. I've also read that the PDS bearing should pretty much be replaced any time you're in the neighbourhood.....but I have a couple questions:

1) How much should an open 6206 bearing cost? I find them running anywhere from $6 - $200 each, and that seems a pretty major extreme to me, and I can't believe they should be replaced any time you're in the neighbourhood at $200 a hit.

2) Now that I have the flywheel cover off, where do I go to get at the seal? Obviously I have to remove the flywheel, and am not sure how to best go about that, which leads to...

3) Who makes the best manual? I've seen recommendations of a couple different brands, but I don't want to have to shell out a ton of money for a manual more than once. The more information the better, even if it costs a few bucks more. I'd love to basically find an 'Idiot's Guide To' my engine.

4) Are the rubber boots for the outdrive different from any one supplier, or can I just buy whatever's cheap on eBay? Is this a standard part that fits something like 9000 different models, and won't be going away anytime soon, or should I buy a couple sets...just in case?

5) This is an extremely new endeavor to me in completely uncharted territory. I'm decently handy, I'm an electrician, but have only done small engine work (scooters). I have a friend who has worked on quite a number of small vehicle engines, but he's basically a weekend trip away. Is a lot of this something I can handle with a manual and patience, or am I in way over my head?

Thank you SO much for reading all the way to the bottom of this post. I keep Googling for answers to my questions, and I keep seeing a ton of useful looking info at iboats, but it appears their website is down or something. I haven't been having nearly as much luck searching on here, so maybe someone can help point me to a number of "read this first" threads.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrfrdbwpaqzkrce/20140827_202537.jpg?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5xmx7fdvl7s8z8/20140915_182446.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyd1umkjv1sof6b/20140915_182458.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ug5hjveac7gfex/20140915_185339.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h63fgsq84pq2he3/20140915_185348.jpg?dl=0

Thanks!
Alton

Ps. In case anyone is wondering, the wooden triangles leaning against the boat are going to become its "winter shelter" so I can work on it in the rain and what not. And yes, I have a cover for the boat, but I have it off to air out the boat.

I hope you got the whole enchilada with that AQ130. The Aq125 is a whole different era with Volvo Penta. Don't pay any more than $15.00 for the bearing. If you're talking rear main seal, just pop the flywheel off and it will be looking at you, in it's own housing. I don't think the Seloc manuals are that bad but I haven't had to use one in a long time. Yes all the rubber will be the same for 250-290 AQ series, the exhaust may be a little different but who changes the exhaust bellows. I use Sierra stuff. You shouldn't have a problem and if you do, Rick, I and others are here to pull you thru.

boatdoc55 said:

I hope you got the whole enchilada with that AQ130. The Aq125 is a whole different era with Volvo Penta. Don't pay any more than $15.00 for the bearing. If you're talking rear main seal, just pop the flywheel off and it will be looking at you, in it's own housing. I don't think the Seloc manuals are that bad but I haven't had to use one in a long time. Yes all the rubber will be the same for 250-290 AQ series, the exhaust may be a little different but who changes the exhaust bellows. I use Sierra stuff. You shouldn't have a problem and if you do, Rick, I and others are here to pull you thru.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. As a matter of fact, I seem to have gotten EVERYTHING, except for the spark plug leads (woooo) and a couple of random nuts (that I think I may have lost in the backseat somewhere). The carbs appear to be complete, the electrical system is complete right up to the dashboard and fuse panel (which I also got), even down to shifter and throttle control and cables (I recognize that they probably won't fit my boat, but mine are still intact). There ar e acouple hoses I'm going to have to replace on the engine (one has been split, and who knows how old the others are), but all the filters and pumps seem to be in ok shape (visually at least)I don't plan on changing the transom shield on the boat (looks identical, including which side the cables are run through), and would save some hassle (I think) unbolting and replacing gaskets. I'm a little concerned about how well the outdrive may have been maintained (they SAY it was maintained...but who knows), and I'm a little leery of the idea of pulling it all apart to work on it with all those shims and other things that I could probably easily mess up. Of course, I also have to get those pivot pins out of the outdrive somehow, so that may necessitate some work on that end of things. On the leg I got with the boat, it appears that those pivot pins were replaced with perfect diameter hardened bolts and lock washers....is there any reason I couldn't do the same?

I'm intrigued by the Seloc manual (I've seen it referenced favorably in lots of places), but is there anywhere I can BUY the thing? I don't know that I care for the idea of a subscription service for it, as per their website. Or, once I'm subscribed, can I download the manual as a PDF or something? That might be alright.

Has anyone BUILT a heat exchanged to enable fresh water cooling through the AQ engine? I like the idea of keeping salt out of this boat, but the cost of a heat exchanger seems to vary wildly in price as well anywhere I can find them, not to mention I have no idea if they're supposed to be specifically sized or anything (similar problem if I BUILD one I suppose, unless I can regulate the flow through it via valve / electric pumps). Unless anyone has one they're willing to part with on the cheap? ;-)

I'm sure I'll have a million questions along the way...and if it's one that's been answered a million times before, I apologize in advance...I won't take too much offense if anyone tells me to f-off and do a search. ;-) At least I have lots of time until next spring (though with 26 C weather today I could have been using it now if I was ready)

Alton ......................

Alton Toth said:

I did some research with Double Eagle, and found out what it had in it when it was new. I spent a few months trying to find a matching or similar engine (AQ125A) that I could mate up to the already installed transom shield and the 270 leg I have on hand.
Yes, this can be done.
Keep in mind that the AQ130C is a raw water cooled push rod engine...., and that the AQ125 is an OHC engine fitted with an OEM closed cooling system.
Also... the AQ130C could be found with a 270T drive. You DO NOT want a "T" drive!!!!!

Only the AQ130D was mated to a 280 drive.

Final drive ratio for either engine will be 2.15:1 regardless of which drive.

I managed to come across an entire engine and outdrive that had only ever been used in fresh water that I managed to pick up for $500 through eBay (the guy had also listed it on CL for $1700, but I wound up being the only bid). A 17 hour trip to Oregon and back to pick it up (along with a ton of boat hardware he threw in to be rid of it) and I now have a complete power plant for the boat that isn't too dissimilar to what the boat shipped with originally.
If you have all parts, this will make it easy.

I've been reading a TON of forum posts, and trying to find what manuals I can, etc. I tried to remove the outdrive from the transom shield (the boat had been sawzalled away from the shield and engine, so was all one unit), but unfortunately could not drive out one of the pivot pins, and snapped the head off the keeper screw for the OTHER pivot pin.
Heat is your friend on any of this stuff. Not penetrating oils.... HEAT!

Do NOT drive against the suspension fork hinge pins with anything harder than an Italian bread stick.
If you do, they will expand and become stuck.


It has a fairly heavy oil leak from the flywheel cover, so I currently am working on getting at the seal to replace it. I've also read that the PDS bearing should pretty much be replaced any time you're in the neighbourhood.....but I have a couple questions:

1) How much should an open 6206 bearing cost? I find them running anywhere from $6 - $200 each, and that seems a pretty major extreme to me, and I can't believe they should be replaced any time you're in the neighbourhood at $200 a hit.
A 6206 is an industry standard open bearing, and should cost you about $14-16.
The AFT most seal should be a 35x62x7mm in a Timken or TCM.... about $8.

2) Now that I have the flywheel cover off, where do I go to get at the seal?
There will be two seals.... one at the FWD end of the PDS, and one at the AFT end of the PDS.
These too are industry standard parts.
Typically the size is embossed into the seal material.

Obviously I have to remove the flywheel, and am not sure how to best go about that, which leads to...
No need to remove the flywheel unless you are replacing the FWD PDS "centering" bearing.... of which is a carry-over from the auto engine w/ standard transmission.
This would be a bronze bushing if in a Ford V-8 AQ series installation.

3) Who makes the best manual? I've seen recommendations of a couple different brands, but I don't want to have to shell out a ton of money for a manual more than once. The more information the better, even if it costs a few bucks more. I'd love to basically find an 'Idiot's Guide To' my engine.
Volvo Penta OEM work shop manual.

4) Are the rubber boots for the outdrive different from any one supplier, or can I just buy whatever's cheap on eBay? Is this a standard part that fits something like 9000 different models, and won't be going away anytime soon, or should I buy a couple sets...just in case?
Do you mean "bellows"?
Volvo Penta OEM are of higher quality, IMO. Sierra parts are decent.

5) This is an extremely new endeavor to me in completely uncharted territory. I'm decently handy, I'm an electrician, but have only done small engine work (scooters). I have a friend who has worked on quite a number of small vehicle engines, but he's basically a weekend trip away. Is a lot of this something I can handle with a manual and patience, or am I in way over my head?
NO.... these are fairly straight forward.
You'll want to replace the FWD rubber cushion, and perform the engine alignment triangulation.
This is a one-time-alignment ordeal with the AQ series.

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Alton Toth said:

It has a fairly heavy oil leak from the flywheel cover, so I currently am working on getting at the seal to replace it. I've also read that the PDS bearing should pretty much be replaced any time you're in the neighbourhood.....but I have a couple questions:

Click to expand...

If the leak is from the engine rear main seal, then yes, you will need to remove the flywheel to get to the seal housing.

I may be wrong but doesn't the aq130c mate to the 270 leg? mine does. Im not sure if the 280 will bolt up. btw I,m in hardy and I may have parts if you need them.

Doug Clark said:

I may be wrong but doesn't the aq130c mate to the 270 leg? mine does. Im not sure if the 280 will bolt up. btw I,m in hardy and I may have parts if you need them.

Click to expand...

Correct.
That engine can be mated to the 250, 270 or 280.


.

RicardoMarine said:

Correct.
That engine can be mated to the 250, 270 or 280.


.

Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, the plate on the side of the engine says 130C/270, so there we go. I guess maybe someone replaced the cover at one point from one that said 280. Of something. I'll have to print out the profile comparison for the 270 and 280 and go check out what I have sitting in the yard. About to rain though so I tarped everything up good and tight for the time being.

The 280 will exhaust thru a hollow cavitation plate and the 270 will exhaust thru a bolted on torque tab/ exhaust port. Very different in looks, might be able to see it from the house.

Found the picture from the day I picked it up. I guess it is a 270, as it has the little hanging down part for the exhaust. Now that I'm thinking about it and looking at pictures, it's the exact same as the suspect leg I got with the boat, so at least I potentially have a full set of parts? Someone must have lost and replaced the drive cover at some point (says 280, didn't care to question it).

A bit of advice since you have the winter months to work on this. I bought a relatively inexpensive engine stand from Harbor Freight and worked on my engine (130D) while it was on the stand. made things a lot easier. You'll most likely want to rebuild the carbs and do some general cleanup. I highly recommend getting the engine cleaned up and do a test run before you put it back in the boat. You should have the starter and alternator bench tested also. If there are problems, much easier to deal with them when you're not rushed for time. Test running will also give you a good chance to set the timing and dwell and check for water leaks. Will also give you a chance to work on the wiring if needed.

I built an inexpensive drive stand and then cleaned up and inspected the outdrive. Also did the pressure and vacuum tests on the stand. Again, easier to order parts and do the work when you're not rushed.

These older boats present challenges but also lots of satisfaction when you finally get it all working. Just be aware that you need to check out every single system. You really don't know if things are correct until you check it out. On mine, had several holes in the fuel tank so replaced the tank and all the hoses.

Don't hesitate to ask for advice and about the experience others have had.

Listen to Joe, and I'll also offer a bit of unsolicited advice:

If given a choice between the 130 push rod engine and the OHC engine, go with the OHC engine.

Do a pressure/vacuum leak-down test on the drive that you'll be using.

Eccentric piston seals are prone to leaking when they age.

Look at, and/or replace the water neck fitting.

Install a new PDS bearing... or at minimum remove it and examine it.

Timing: not only check/set base/initial advance.... look at the progressive and TA, and adjust it according to OEM specs.

Since you are mixing components, verify the over-all drive ratio. Either of these engines require the 2.15:1

RicardoMarine said:

Listen to Joe, and I'll also offer a bit of unsolicited advice:

It's not unsolicitied...I DID ask for input and thoughts. THANK YOU for taking the time to post on what I'm sure is another 'noobie out of his league thread'.

If given a choice between the 130 push rod engine and the OHC engine, go with the OHC engine.

The boat originally shipped with a AQ125 in it, but I didn't get the hull with any engine in it, just the 270 outdrive. Which is why I drove to Oregon for a complete powerplant (the $500 it cost me didn't hurt either)

Do a pressure/vacuum leak-down test on the drive that you'll be using.

I may end up rebuilding both of the legs so that I have a spare, or to sell one and recoup some of my expenses thus far (I'm cheap, I don't want this to turn into another 'Bring On Another Thousand' type situation I seem to hear so much about...do I need special equipment to be able to vacuum test? What's the purpose for it?

Eccentric piston seals are prone to leaking when they age.

Look at, and/or replace the water neck fitting.

Is the concern there corrosion? I know that the engine / transom shield / leg I picked up in Oregon has only ever run in fresh water. The hull I have, with one leg and the transom shield currently on the boat was only ever run in salt water.

Install a new PDS bearing... or at minimum remove it and examine it.

I wondered about this when I saw that the bearings were anywhere from $6-$200 online, until I asked locally and learned I can buy it for $20 here at Napa Autoparts. They can also order me in all the seals I need for this engine, which is handy (the guys at the counter knew that it was a marinized Volvo 240 engine from the early 70's as soon as I mentioned AQ130)

Timing: not only check/set base/initial advance.... look at the progressive and TA, and adjust it according to OEM specs.

I assume you're talking about ignition timing right? I have a manual on the way, but in the meantime, what is progressive and TA?

Since you are mixing components, verify the over-all drive ratio. Either of these engines require the 2.15:1

Not mixing components (at least as far as I'm aware). The previous owner of the engine and leg literally unbolted the transom shield from the boat and then cut the hull away from the power plant. They scrapped the boat due to rot, and other than the cover plate having been changed on the leg, I have no reason to not believe that these were ever separate pieces of equipment.

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joe: The drive stand you built...was it just something cobbled together from dimensional lumber, or did you get more intricate? It looks like there's a few spots on the leg that would be really good to pick up / hold from, but I don't know how well it would work if I start tearing these drives completely apart. Also, in your particular case, was your fuel tank beneath deck, or were you able to replace it easily? Mine is below the floor, and while I pulled all the 30 year old half-rotten carpet out to fibre glass it anyways, I suppose now would be the time to find out if the tank was no good and I have to cut a hole in the floor to fix it.

Weather is too crappy to do anything right now anyways...I have to get that a-frame built so I can at least work on the hull. Being that this boat was abandoned by one of my previous tenants, I'm just waiting for the final paperwork to come back from my federal government to give me clear title to it before I go totally crazy on it other than cleaning and carpet removal.

Alton Toth said:

joe: The drive stand you built...was it just something cobbled together from dimensional lumber, or did you get more intricate? It looks like there's a few spots on the leg that would be really good to pick up / hold from, but I don't know how well it would work if I start tearing these drives completely apart. Also, in your particular case, was your fuel tank beneath deck, or were you able to replace it easily? Mine is below the floor, and while I pulled all the 30 year old half-rotten carpet out to fibre glass it anyways, I suppose now would be the time to find out if the tank was no good and I have to cut a hole in the floor to fix it.

Weather is too crappy to do anything right now anyways...I have to get that a-frame built so I can at least work on the hull. Being that this boat was abandoned by one of my previous tenants, I'm just waiting for the final paperwork to come back from my federal government to give me clear title to it before I go totally crazy on it other than cleaning and carpet removal.

Click to expand...

Mine was cobbled together with 2 x 4s and then screwed to a moving dolly as a base. Do a google search for outdrive stand and you'll find lots of ideas. It doesn't need to be anything fancy. Personally, I would think twice about rebuilding a drive just to have a spare. Those drives are pretty sturdy and seldom see hard use from a 4 cylinder engine. Besides, shimming and adjusting the gears is a bit of a black art that is probably best left to those that possess those magical powers. If needed, you can ship your upper gearbox to Ricardo to be repaired. He is one of those wizards that knows how to CORRECTLY do that stuff.

My boat is a runabout with the gas tank in the bow so relatively easy to change out. Newer fuel lines and components are made to withstand ethanol and don't degrade like the older ones.

With any boat, dry rot is a concern. Once you pull the carpet, spend some time with a hammer or an awl to determine the shape of the deck, stringers, and transom. Rotted wood will never fix itself and the only way to remedy the situation is to replace it. Better to find out before you get too deep into your project. You won't be the first one to find out that there is more work to be done than originally thought.

Long time since I've updated here. Too many things on the go, but with the way the weather has been here in BC this year I could have been on the water months ago. I've got the interior of the boat stripped to clean it up and re-do the flooring. I finally managed to break loose the rusty bolts holding the fuel sender to the tank so I got in there with an inspection camera and had a look around. The tank is in perfect condition, though it is about 1/3 full of extremely rotten gas.

Does anyone have any tricks for stripping the inside of the tank at this point? I know if it were a tank I could pull out I'm sure I could fill it with some sort of stripper and slosh the tank around, but given that it's an under deck tank I'm wondering if I need to go drive around on a hill somewhere, or if I can basically just fill and empty the tank with stripper. Also, what's a 'normal' size for a under-floor gas tank in a 17' boat? It APPEARS to have a second chamber from what I can see with the scope, but may have to find a coat hanger and see if I can probe some lengths.

Got the engine broken down to where the leaky rear main seal was. The parts places I talked to all told me that the felt seals were no longer available and I'd have to change to a rubber one. I recently ordered a seal kit from my local favorite parts shop, and it showed up with both a felt seal as well as a rubber seal in it. At this point I'm wondering....if I want to switch to the rubber seal, do I need to change the holder for it, or is it a direct swap out? The rubber seal does seem to be larger than the felt one, though maybe it's just because the felt one isn't stretched into place? Father in law is coming up this weekend, and we're cautiously optimistic we may get it running this weekend.

The good news from all this is having bought the engine without seeing it run, I've also scoped the cylinders and they look to be in extremely good shape. No excessive build ups of anything, no scoring, just generally look good. Maybe I got lucky on this one.

Got the engine into the boat this last weekend. Finally managed to drive the pivot pins out of the transom shield so that I could harvest and swap some more parts over onto the boat's shield. We started the engine sitting on the ground a couple times and gave it the option of water from a bucket, though it didn't take it. Is this because the thermostat didn't open yet, or is my water pump possibly shot? Only ran it for a few-10 seconds each of two or three times, so don't think I could have done any damage to it. Now that I've got the engine into the boat, I've been examining the wiring in the dash (which HAD been hooked to a 125) and the wiring off the engine (the 130C), which I luckily got the wiring harness and dash as well for tracing purposes...I have a couple questions...

The yellow/red wire coming back to the starter solenoid ran through an 8A fuse in the dash. I tried to start the engine using jumper cables and some jumpers into the wiring harness, but managed to blow the fuse. I HAVE been able to strike a wire against the spade connector on the solenoid to get it to engage, with a half decent spark show at the same time...
1) If I bypass the fuse in the dash, can I do any harm to the ignition switch? If so, what sort of size of fuse should I be putting in?
2) Is it worth my time to install an inline resistor to limit the current going to the starter solenoid, thereby protecting the ignition switch of the boat?
3) I've read both to put and to not put a resistor inline with the coil. Yes? No? Only sometimes?
4) A friend of mine suggested NOT using the key switch for starting due to potential salt air corrosion issues, if not now then down the road, but to switch to a push button control for the starter...thoughts?
5) Does anyone on here have JUST a starter solenoid for sale? The one on this engine has been cracked and taped back up, but it's not going to last forever.
6) The manual shows that the 130C came with a relay to actuate the starter solenoid, but that just seems bizarre to me. The 125 does not show such a beast in it's diagram.

7) Unrelated...the 130C comes with only an oil pressure warning light, but am I able to switch that unit out for something that I can hook to the gauge in my dash that originally was hooked to a 125?

I'm sure there's more, but this is a decent start I think.