Honda BF50 won't shift into reverse???

I've got a 2000 Honda 50 that won't shift into reverse. Goes into neutral and forward fine.
It seems like the rod is too short and won't push down enough to get into reverse....

Any help is much appreciated

Andrew

Readjust the shift linkage as described in this water pump change instruction. It may just be out of adjustment.

If that does not work and someone has had the prop shaft housing assembly out, they may not have put all the parts back in.

Mike

a little more background that may help diagnose.. I changed the impeller about 80-100 hrs ago( roughly 8-10 offshore fishing trips) so the lower unit was taken down... And it just happened on way back to launch ramp, luckily at the end of the day... So it's been fine for 80-100 hrs- so the adjustment was working great.. Maybe something popped off or got loose.

Thanks for your help Hondadude. I'll try that out and see what happens. If that doesn't remedy it, what do you think it could be?

Andrew

Sounds like your shift rod JAM nut came loose and it went out of adjustment like Mike said.
OR... Sometimes you can adjust them so that they work for awhile but if the adjustment was a little bit "off" they will stop going into reverse even if everything looks ok. A good readjustment with an eye to "biasing" slightly toward reverse (just a tad) should solve the problem.

hondadude said:

Readjust the shift linkage as described in this water pump change instruction. It may just be out of adjustment.

If that does not work and someone has had the prop shaft housing assembly out, they may not have put all the parts back in.

Mike

Click to expand...

I readjusted the shift rod with more reverse capabity (more downward stroke) and this didn't fix it...
What can I try next? Whats odd is that it worked fine for roughly 100 hrs after I replaced the water pump....

Do I need new shift cables?

Don't know.

Readjust shift linkage as the book says....but before you do, disconnect the coupling and see if it shifts by hand at the linkage. You may have to use a pair of pliers to move it. If it shifts ok move on to the next line.

Disconnect the shift cable at the engine and shift the linkage on the engine by hand. If it shifts ok, then there is an issue with either the cable, cable adjustment or shiftbox. If it still does not shift ok, then the problem could be the linkage on the upper part of the engine, bent shift rod, or gearcase.

If you or a "friend" tried to shift it into reverse when the motor was not running and tried to force it, the one of the parts on #8 could have cracked, thus not allowing total throw into reverse gear. http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...F50AY LRTA/ENGINE COVER LOWER CASE/parts.html

Mike

Just tried shifting it by hand with pliers-it doesn't seem to move into reverse. If I understand correct the prop should spin free in neutral...

Also, nothing is broken up top near the engine that I can see.

If it doesn't go into reverse by hand - is my lower unit broken? What can I check next?
I googled NO reverse bf50 and found you old post about the clutch dog- how can this be fixed?



Thanks for all your help again
Andrew

Is the prop "locked up"? If so, it is already in gear and you should not force it when trying to manipulate the shift rod or lever.

If the prop is spinning freely, then, yes, it is in neutral. It is supposed to spin freely in neutral.

When you are trying to shift it with pliers, I hope that you are turning the prop simultaneously. If you try to "dry shift" without turning the prop, you could damage or bend something. Turn the prop in the same direction as it would rotate for the gear you are trying to select. Usually right for forward and left for reverse.

If you are turning the prop ( having a helper do that while you do the shifting makes it easier) while moving the shift rod, the transmission should go into gear with a very positive "thunk" and lock up. Do that for forward by pulling up on the rod while turning the prop (usually to the right) and then select neutral. Reverse the rotation of the prop and try pushing down.

If you are trying to shift with the lower unit hooked up and using the shift lever as you normally would just modify these directions to read; move the lever forward while rotating the prop to the right. Select neutral. Then reverse the prop's rotation while moving the shift lever to the rear to select reverse.

If it doesn't positively "thunk" or 'clunk" into gear with the prop locking up, then yes, something is wrong. It is either still out of adjustment or there may be something bent or broken in the lower unit.

The clutch dog is in the gear case and it can get worn so that it won't allow the outboard to go into gear with the engine running. It will "chatter" and make shifting difficult. But, I don't believe even a badly worn one would keep you from shifting the transmission by hand unless something else is wrong too.

If you grasp the prop and push and then pull on the shaft, does it move back and forth? It should move a very small amount...say 1/16 of an inch or so but no more than 1/8" "lateral" movement. If it has a lot of "slop" then there are worn components in the transmission.

Something's gotta be bent or broken in lower unit...

The guy I have looking at it hasn't opened it up because he doesn't have the tool supposedly.... So I'm going to pick it up and bring it somewhere else. He says I'm looking at at least $1200 for parts and labor. Does this sound about right? What could be broken in there?
How difficult are lower units to rebuild? Ive always done my own maintenance on my cars, and I'm used to turning a wrench. How technical of a job is it? I'd like to save some money if possible.

Thanks again

Andrew

A complete new unit with new water pump and filled with lube is about $1200.

You can only guess what is wrong inside until you take it apart. So get it taken apart and see...it might be something simple.

If it is a real mess and you have to replace all the gears and bearings, reseal it, and install a new water pump.....the parts alone total to between $700 - $800. Add a manual and gearlube......well you do the math....

What is your time worth? Will you get it shimmed correctly????.


Mike

You ask a "relative" question. As in...do you have a rich relative that you can ask to get it repaired for you?....

KIDDING! JUST KIDDING!

But, the answer to "how hard is it" IS relative. For some it will be EZ. You are dealing with about the SIMPLEST form of transmission there is. Just a drive gear at the end of the main shaft and a forward gear at the front of the prop shaft and reverse gear at the back of the prop shaft with a simple "dog" clutch between them. here's the picture.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2000/BF50AY LRA/PROPELLER/parts.html

Once you take the prop and thrust washer off, bend back the ears on the "claw washer" (#19) that are securing the gear case nut (#7) and use the special "spanner socket" to rotate the nut counter clockwise and unscrew it from the case...the transmission will come out all in one piece except for the spring (#6) holder (#4) ball (#29) and the pin (#5). Those parts will probably "boing" out in the case and need to be retrieved but, as long as you know they are there, they ain't goin' no place and you can get them and put them back. As a matter of fact, that MAY be where your problem is. I don't know. But, the pin and the ball and the holder all can wear down and cause too much clearance.

If you're going to do this yourself, you NEED THE MANUAL. The HELM INC manual. AND THAT MANUAL ONLY. If you look at the parts list, you will see some "selective" parts. Meaning? There are SHIMS (#20) and (#21) that you will need to measure for so that the transmission works correctly when you're finished.

The socket for the case nut is necessary for REASSEMBLY purposes. So that you can TORQUE the nut to specs and have the SEAL hold and not leak water into your gearcase. Most of those nuts are frozen in there anyway and usually need to be CAREFULLY cut out so you can disassemble without the socket. Sometimes a healthy dose of PB Blaster and a pin punch and hammer can work to turn the nut to get it off.

As you can readily see, the cost for this job is NOT in the parts, it is in the LABOR and KNOW HOW. The problem here is that you really don't KNOW what's wrong yet. It could (and probably is) be something simple.

If you compare the price of the Helm manual (around $120 or so) and the socket ($60??) Vacuum/pressure test tool ($80??) That's a LONG way from $1200. The parts you need will have to be determined after you get in and take a look.


BUT...YOU HAVE TO DO THIS RIGHT... the first time! OR, it turns into a bag of worms with a leaky gearcase and ruined lower end.

Below is the picture of the lower shift rod and the vertical shaft with the drive gear on the end. Mostly I added it for reference. BUT.... Note Item 16..the "pushrod" That little item is what pushes on the "pin" that is on the prop shaft to shift into reverse. It can get a "groove" worn into it and cause the problem you're having. It's either a LOT of wear on one or more parts or the lower shift rod is badly bent for some reason.

I suppose it could be that the shift rod seal holder assembly (#17) could have come loose or broken in some way and is allowing the lower rod to "flop" around or deflect enough so that it can't push the shift pin properly. Those are the things you need to be looking for when you "go in".

Good luck.
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2000/BF50AY LRA/WATER PUMP/parts.html

hondadude said:

A complete new unit with new water pump and filled with lube is about $1200.

You can only guess what is wrong inside until you take it apart. So get it taken apart and see...it might be something simple.

If it is a real mess and you have to replace all the gears and bearings, reseal it, and install a new water pump.....the parts alone total to between $700 - $800. Add a manual and gearlube......well you do the math....

What is your time worth? Will you get it shimmed correctly????.


Mike

Click to expand...

so the $1200 the boat mechanic quoted me sounds spot on with your figure..
I'm likely going to have it rebuilt by a certified Honda tech, I don't have the time to fiddle with it at this point.
where could I find a used rebuilt one for possibly less?

Thanks you all for your informative replies.

There is a used long shaft on ebay for $995. Be sure to check out seller etc, as you should on any purchase on ebay. I can not say if this is a good one or not, but you can call them an discuss.

Just keep in mind, that the Honda tech may find something simple with your unit and save you a bundle. So it might be worth a inspection fee.

Mike

We rebuilt a couple of them a few months back. Both had had water in oil damage. They are slightly fiddly things to rebuild and I would use a mechanic who knows them. Getting the lower drive shaft bearing back in and properly aligned was a serious mission on both of ours.

Thanks for all of your help , greatly appreciated.

i decided to go with a new unit, which is going to run $1135 from a reputable shop here in so cal, Tradewind Inflatables. saves me some headaches. The Honda certified tech over there said that there was a high chance that the nut requiring a special tool could be seized if it's a saltwater boat-and Honda told them they are throw aways, but with that said he hasn't physically seen mine, mine is a sw boat.

The guy I had fixing it wasn't even working on it so he wasted a week of my time, I got my unit back and that headache is over. There was no water in the gear oil, but reverse is still not working. I may be looking to sell if anybody is looking to rebuild one.

Andrew
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Update- I installed brand new lower unit today and ran it and adjusted the shift lever. It seems to be going into all gears just fine. I hooked it up to the ear muffs while running it and shifted through gears, when I shift into forwatd or reverser it makes a pronounced " clack". Is this noise normal? I don't remember shifting it with the old unit on the muffs.....Also -how tight do you torque the prop nut? I know not to torque it down but my question is do you want any forward to backward play on the prop?Andrew

Look in your owner's manual!

But most of these Hondas tell you to hand tighten, then tighten a bit more to line up the hole for the cotter pin to be inserted. Realistically, I tighten mine with a crescent wrench with a little pressure to make sure that every thing is seated, then back it off to line up the hole for the cotter pin. There should not be any play or wobble in the prop at all. Be sure you have all the washers in place. There is a thrust washer behind the prop (grooved side toward the gear box), then the prop, then the spline washer, then the plain washer, then the castle nut.