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Hydro Electric Shift

Hey there. I am looking for some assitance in sorting out a shift issue on my 1971, 60 HP Evinrude. I am tring to get the motor to shift out of forward and into neutral. No luck though. I checked the voltage, and they are both what they should be on blue and green lines. But engine remains in drive. Look at the oil in the lower unit and it was black with some water. Flushed out with some Dex 3 as describes in an earlier post. Still stuck in drive, prop is spinning when you try to start. Any idea on what to o next would be greatly appreciated!nh
 
Its always in gear till engine starts......

Hey there Faztbullet,

Thanks for the reply. So is the voltage check just to confirm the correct voltage at the green and blue terminals and doesn't actually put the motor into neutral/reverse until she's fired up? How Long does it take for the prop to stop once she's in neutral?

I was thinking it might be something with the relays or the pump in the lower end. Do you know if that's something thats common to fail?

Thanks,

CB
 
(Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE 1 -The ohm reading of the individual shift solenoids should be between 5 to 6 ohms. The ohm meter should be set to low ohms. The shift wires leading to the solenoids must be disconnected when being tested.

NOTE 2 - The solenoid plunger measurement must be made with the solenoid placed within the lower unit. The measurement must be approximately 1/64" beneath the top surface of the solenoid... NOT above the solenoid surface nor any lower than 1/64" of the solenoid surface. This factory measurement is critical and will not ever change
UNLESS someone has tinkered with it.

The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.

In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.

In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.

In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)
To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.

This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).

With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire.
Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:


http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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Awesome thanks for the great info! On a side note, can anyone tell me if there is a stream of cooling water that shoots off the back of the motor somewhere to let you know the cooling is working for sure, or does that not happen on this model? Thanks again!
 
I have a 1971 Johnson 50HP and it did not have a TellTail so I added one as per this forum:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-johnson-evinrude-adding-a-tell-tale?t=222677
The motor in the last thread is exactly like mine. I followed his directions and it went very well and works good.

As soon as my motor starts it is in neutral. Sounds like the switch in your remote control may be bad. Joe Reeves has a procedure for replacing it with a toggle switch.
Bill
 
(Exhaust Relief Ports - Exhaust Housing (Inner/Outer)
(J Reeves)

The long housing between the powerhead and the lower unit is called the exhaust housing. There is a inner housing within it that has a heavy duty seal around the bottom of it, or heavy duty seals around a inner extension between the housing and the lower unit.

The red hot exhaust travels down thru that inner tube and out the propeller with a somewhat supply of water to cool the propeller hub. A good amount of water surrounds and fills the space between the outer and inner tube, otherwise the outer housing would get so hot that the paint would burn off.

Some water pumps, for some reason (differing even when new) exert a great amount of water pressure, and if the exhaust housing seals are in perfect condition, the water fills the tube to a point of overflowing.

This brings into play those two holes or slots, whichever the engine might have, at the top rear portion of the exhaust housing just below the powerhead.

Now, if those two holes/slots weren't there, water would continue to flow up into the cylinders. Water not flowing out of those holes is no concern for alarm UNLESS that outer housing suddenly becomes extremely hot..... the warning horn should sound long before that happens.

The main reason for those holes being there (exhaust relief holes) is that when at an idle, there is an extreme amount of resistance encountered by the exhaust trying to escape due the fact that the outlet via the propeller is now blocked by a wall of water. The escape route in this case is for the exhaust to escape out those two holes, otherwise the engine would slow down quite quickly and die. If exhaust cannot escape, air/fuel cannot gain entrance to the engine.
Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:


http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

 
(Exhaust Relief Ports - Exhaust Housing (Inner/Outer)
(J Reeves)

The long housing between the powerhead and the lower unit is called the exhaust housing. There is a inner housing within it that has a heavy duty seal around the bottom of it, or heavy duty seals around a inner extension between the housing and the lower unit.

The red hot exhaust travels down thru that inner tube and out the propeller with a somewhat supply of water to cool the propeller hub. A good amount of water surrounds and fills the space between the outer and inner tube, otherwise the outer housing would get so hot that the paint would burn off.

Some water pumps, for some reason (differing even when new) exert a great amount of water pressure, and if the exhaust housing seals are in perfect condition, the water fills the tube to a point of overflowing.

This brings into play those two holes or slots, whichever the engine might have, at the top rear portion of the exhaust housing just below the powerhead.

Now, if those two holes/slots weren't there, water would continue to flow up into the cylinders. Water not flowing out of those holes is no concern for alarm UNLESS that outer housing suddenly becomes extremely hot..... the warning horn should sound long before that happens.

The main reason for those holes being there (exhaust relief holes) is that when at an idle, there is an extreme amount of resistance encountered by the exhaust trying to escape due the fact that the outlet via the propeller is now blocked by a wall of water. The escape route in this case is for the exhaust to escape out those two holes, otherwise the engine would slow down quite quickly and die. If exhaust cannot escape, air/fuel cannot gain entrance to the engine.
Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:


http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1


Thanks sgain again for all the great info. This site is truly amazing in the knowledge contained within its' users! Well, I finally got the ol girl sparked up yesterday, and what a beautiful sound! Love the sound out if the old two strokes. Sure enough as soon as she started, she went right into neutral, and the prop stopped spinning as advertised. One of the gents assisting me suggested it would be a good idea to pull the LU off to check out the impeller where it's been sitting so long and since there was no tell tail. So I did, ANC it looks pretty good but I think I'll throw a new one one there all the same and thanks to you all it looks like there isn't a tell tail anyway. Cool post on how to add one though.

J Reeves is there any way to test the warning horn to make sure it works? What's your thoughts on adding the tell tail mode?

One final question, does anyone know the torque spec for putting the bolts back on the LU?

Thanks again!
 
Testing warning horn... Key in RUN posiiton (engine NOT riunning)... ground out TAN (heat sensor) wire protruding from cylinder head. Horn should sound.

Adding a water tell tale outlet is a good idea but don't ask me how to do that. Another member will fill you in.

L/Unit bolts... Just put a little grease on them and tighten them securely.
 
Thanks again for all the awesome info. Tried the continuity for the overheat circuit and all seems good. New problem though. Bought shifts fine on land, but when I put her in the water, no joy. I only have forward, regardless of what gear I'm in. I understand this is a safety feature to get you home in the event hydro shift packs it in. So I took her back to the house, fully know what I was going to see....water in the oil, and sure enough there it was. When I took a closer look I noticed there was no washer on one of the gear case oil screws so I thought that may be the problem, so I put in two new gaskets and flushed it out with Dext 3, filled it bak up with oil and headed back out to the water. Same problem, only forward. On an up note I took it for a little spin and the engine seems to be running very well. Took her bak home and sure nough as expected again, there was the water in the oil. So it looks like a LU seal change. I think there's a kit you can get for all the seals. Any advice on how to do this woul be truly appreciated. Thanks!
 
So this afternoon I pulled the LU and the prop of to do some test. I pressure tested the gear case. Wouldn't even hold 5 psi though. Could see air bubbling up around the drive shaft bearing and housing seals. Interesting point my manual says there should be an o ring below his unit, but there I none in actl fact so I think I'll order one along with the two seals. Spray the ret of he Lu down with soapy water n the rest look really good, so well see when the rest of the parts come in.

Checked the ohm reading on the shift snoods epwhihnare supposed to be 5-6 ohms but they were no where's near this, although the voltages were good.m anyone have ny thoughts on this?
 
Tahe bearing housing and seal assembly under the waterpump..... before you remove the retaining bolts to that housing, grab the driveshaft to see if it can be moved back and forth in any direction. If it can, the bearing is shot and will require replacing. If the bearing is a non replacable part, replace the entire bearing housing.
 
Hey there again. Thanks for all the info. Joereeves, I took your advice and when I tried to move the drive shaft prior to pulling the bearing housing and there was a little movement. Each time a little shot of air would leak out. So looks like I need a new bearing and seals.

Racerone, I figured the same thing that the O ring should be there but it wasn't when I pulled the housing. I've read that in some instances O rings have been left out on new parts, so there's times that people leave them out when repairing things, I was just wondering if this was one of those times?
When you say a standard bearing, what exactly do you mean and do you have any advice on the job?

I'd love to get the ol girl back in the water! Thanks again.
 
I was looking at the manual, and it looks like you have to pull the drive shaft right out to change that bearing. Is that correct? As well it refers to an omc special tool 383173, can you make one of these or get by without it?

Thanks
Z
 
No need to pull the driveshaft. Just remove the 4 bolts retaining that bearing housing, then if needed, use two screwdrivers on the side edges of that housing to work it up and away.
 
Tahe bearing housing and seal assembly under the waterpump..... before you remove the retaining bolts to that housing, grab the driveshaft to see if it can be moved back and forth in any direction. If it can, the bearing is shot and will require replacing. If the bearing is a non replacable part, replace the entire bearing housing.

Joe, how much movement are we talking here? If the movement is really not apparent, but some air escapes out when try to move the drive shaft when it's pressurized, is there any chance it might not need a new bearing and just new seals? Could the O ring missing below the unit cause this as it's not there? Someone mentioned using some sealant to seal where the O ring should be any thoughts on this? Any ideas on how to pull the bearing out of the housing?
 
Very strange if that large O Ring isn't in the groove of that housing. Without it, I would think that oil would be flying all over the place past that housing. You can use regular gasket sealing compound or grease on the O Ring... either one would cause it to seal.

The only thing that would allow the driveshaft to move sideways is a worn bearing UNLESS the drive shaft itself is worn (not likely though).

I always heat the housing somewhat with a hand help propane torch to expand the aluminum surrounding the bearing, then it can be easily tapped out with a punch.

Usually one end of the bearing is flat, the other end rounded, when installing, press only on the flat portion of the bearing.

To replace or not to replace the bearing will have to be your judgement call. Does it appear to have been leaking at the seal area?
 
Very strange if that large O Ring isn't in the groove of that housing. Without it, I would think that oil would be flying all over the place past that housing. You can use regular gasket sealing compound or grease on the O Ring... either one would cause it to seal.

The only thing that would allow the driveshaft to move sideways is a worn bearing UNLESS the drive shaft itself is worn (not likely though).

I always heat the housing somewhat with a hand help propane torch to expand the aluminum surrounding the bearing, then it can be easily tapped out with a punch.

Usually one end of the bearing is flat, the other end rounded, when installing, press only on the flat portion of the bearing.

To replace or not to replace the bearing will have to be your judgement call. Does it appear to have been leaking at the seal area?

Hey Joe thanks for all the info. I'm not sure what to think about this bearing. It very may well have been spraying oil out with it not there. Do you know the size of that O ring by chance? I know I can't seem to find it anywhere. Is there anything to seal it up in there in place of the O ring? Someone mentioned some sealant but not what type. I'd love to sort this one out because it's all that's keeping me from the water. Love to hear back. Thanks.
 

Hi Bill and thanks for the info. I'm going to order the parts but they won't get to me until 29 Aug. In the meantime I was trying to track down the size of the bearing housing O ring. There's a local shop that can make one up for me in the meantime so I can hopefully get back on the water a little earlier.
To do that I need to find out the dimensions of that specific O ring but i'm not having very much luck. Or possibly an alternative I can use until then (some kind of sealant). Any suggestions?
 
I would wait for the O-Ring. Sealant would most likely wash out and/or get in the bearing. That would cause you even more problems.

Bill
 
Any ideas on how I could find out the exact size of the O ring?

I'm a little lost on the talk about this housing's "O Ring". Are you having a problem finding one? The part number is 313340 and lists for about $6.00 or so. I have four of them left in my remaining stock.

And if you're thinking about installing that housing without the O Ring..... don't!
 
I'm a little lost on the talk about this housing's "O Ring". Are you having a problem finding one? The part number is 313340 and lists for about $6.00 or so. I have four of them left in my remaining stock.

And if you're thinking about installing that housing without the O Ring..... don't!

I hear ya! O ring is on the way.
 
Any idea what size that bearing is Joe?

No, not really, and it isn't listed as being separate from the housing. However, look closely at the flat surface of the bearing for a number. With that number, you'll be able to have a company that deals in bearings among other things who can match it up easily for you.
 
No, not really, and it isn't listed as being separate from the housing. However, look closely at the flat surface of the bearing for a number. With that number, you'll be able to have a company that deals in bearings among other things who can match it up easily for you.

Right on thanks Joe. I was able to scrounge the parts to get it back together. Pressure tested, held pressure at 16 psi with no leakage! Flushed out the gear case a few times with Dex 3 and then filled it up with the proper oil and tested with the snorkel everything ran like it should. Put in the water, and for what ever reason, no neutral, no reverse? Took her back home, put it on the snorkel again, worked as advertised. Put the prop in a large bucket of water tested fine. Back to the lake, same thing no neutral or reverse! All the voltage at the green and blue wires are what they should be both in and out of the water, but for whatever reason, the ol girl won't go into neutral or reverse unless she's on dry land on a snorkel or in a bucket of water. The only thing that is slightly different in the water is that the lake is slightly brackish. You seem to be pretty well versed on the old electric shift, have you ever seen this one before? So close, but yet so far.
 
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