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HP50 -- Oil film on lower leg? Oil filter issues?

E

eeberhar

New member
Hi,

Thanks in advance for any insights. I dont know why I keep referring to it as HP...

2000 Honda BF50

I noticed a little oil film the other day on the lower leg. I went with the brush it off and hope it doesnt return approach but it was back. The motor and boat are kept in the water and the motor is kept up out of the water.

Its just a thin film but its there...

Any connections to the oil filters? I now have 2 different Honda oil filters - I believe part number 15400-PFB-007 (black) is recommended but one dealer sold me a blue one part number 15400PFB-014 (which is now installed - maybe first blue one ever on this motor).

I am assuming the only way to get oil there based on gravity - the grey plastic rectangle I believe is the water intake so the water is going (pushed/pumped) up and circulates in the engine. If a gasket is weak/gone in the engine perhaps a bit of oil is leaking back down to the grey plastic intake and onto the blue spot in the image below?

Anyway the blue oil filter is causing to much pressure in the engine?

I have only had the engine 1.5 years so it was my first oil change as it had fresh oil in it when I bought it.

thoughts? Ideas? next steps?

lowerleg.jpg
 
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If you can see the oil coming out with the engine tilted up, see if you can get a sample on your finger and smell it. It might be gear lube. If it has a pungent smell, it is gear lube. If it has little smell, it is motor oil.

The blue oil filter should not cause you any issues as long as you have tightened it down. It should be more than just hand tight or else it will leak. That is tightened with an oil filter wrench.

If the substance is coming out the intake, you most likely have a bad seal under the water pump.

Mike
 
So I checked the boat this am. 12 hrs later.

there was only a very small dot of oil. I think it's gear oil.

there is no cracks but only a few imperfections....it would appear its seeping through the alloy....is that possible? Any non drastic solutions?

i will give it a few days and smell the oil again. Gravity would say its coming from the intake but there is no sign of water/ oil from the intake ....just this little dot of oil maybe coming from a small hole/imperfection.

i will take a close up later. Thanks
 
It is entirely possible that you could have a porous area in the casting. It happens sometimes with aluminum forged parts. If you think that's what it might be, you could try to clean it real well and maybe place a dab of clear epoxy on the spot.
It would be even better to drain the gear case and then use carb spray or brake kleen to ensure a good bond.

If that doesn't do it, it may take replacing the case. The real issue is that if gear oil can find it's way out then water can surely find it's way in. If that is happening it will eventually cause you more problems.
 
Re: HP50 -- Oil film on lower leg? Oil filter issues? (new pic)

hole in lowerunit.jpg

Not sure if this will show up. See the two dots in the centre.

Casting? I gently poked around with a nail and there seemed to be a soft spot. Its the lower hole

I have some 'cold weld' and will try it but I dont like the idea of a thin epoxy holding this together when I in the open water.

Welding? Buy a used lower unit? If the epoxy works - should I trust it?

Ideas?
 
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Do you ever watch "DEADLIEST CATCH" on television? Twice now I've seen Edgar of the NORTWESTERN use INDUSTRIAL EPOXY to fix hydraulic leaks at sea. THE BEARING SEA! One instance, it was a pipe for their crane system and the most recent was when they lost their steering and discovered a cracked solenoid valve assembly. I couldn't believe it worked! But it did.
If it were me, I might consider a new gear case. But, if I were to try the epoxy, I would do some more "probing". I would probe harder and more extensively to see if it will fail or "fall through" in that particular area of the casting. If not, then the epoxy might be an easy, inexpensive way to go.

But, what you always need to keep in mind is that the casting has internal bracing built in to support the prop shaft, gears and bearings. If the structural integrity of that support complex is compromised, it could lead to the dang-thang coming apart at high speed!

Not likely but possible. That's why a new case would bring "more" piece of mind if offshore is your deal.
 
Hi,

So I cleaned the area (size of a dime)with brake cleaner, sandpaper and used some epoxy (cold weld). It slowed the leak down but the oil is weeping through the epoxy. Not enough for a drip over a 3-4 days but enough you can run your finger on it and smell the gear oil.

Whats really weird - if you look at my original picture - the same thing seems to be happening on the exact spot on the other side. Whats going on inside the gear case right there?

I am pretty disappointed, the motor has less than 200 hrs, mint shape, I bought the honda name...I did that before once with a year 2000 honda odyssey - google transmission honda odyssey...

I am not saying I wont buy honda because they make good stuff but they have issue just like everyone else and based on this experience they definitely appear to have gear case issues for this motor run serial number 300xxxx.

Anyone with a line on a good dealer who will ship lower gear case to canada? j9b2m4?

thanks
 
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It's hard to be sure without taking the propshaft and holder out, cleaning the interior wall and inspecting carefully But, it is probably 1 of 2 possibilites.

There is a common occurence in casting aluminum called porosity. It's a flaw that is introduced at the foundry. It affects aluminum engine blocks cylinder heads and almost anything made of cast aluminum. If you did not do some extensive probing to find the weak area and then sand and prep the area for good adhesion, you may have just missed getting it to seal. If you were able to pressurize the housing (not so easy to do) with compressed air, you could submerge it a tub of water and watch for bubbles to find all the porous areas.
Most of us just aren't equipped to be able to pull that off.

The other thing that comes to mind is a structural failure of the gear housing that, as I've indicated before, could cause catastrophic failure under load.
 
So they want 1700 cDn at the dealer for the part. I found someone who will weld put new seals in etc but it's a shipping situation and would be 750. He says he has half a dozen Hondas with lower gear case issues that owners have walked away from.

Not sure what to do.
 
That's an awfully high shipping cost. Seems like there ought to be some alternative that is much cheaper. In the past, I've shipped and receive large parts, including an entire Volvo outdrive, via UPS for under $100.
 
It was 650 for the rebuild and 100 for shipping on the 750 option. It's 1700 new Canadian at dealership.

Its just do you put 1k into a rebuild or 2k for a new one on a motor that's worth 3k...

i do like the motor and don't really want to buy another used one. I will add my 8 hp Yamaha went 10 yrs without a single issue and I sold it to a buddy and it continues to run strong. Maybe there larger hp models have some issues to though.

my buddy said welcome to the ' Boat' ing world bust out another thousand :)
 
I can certainly understand your frustration with the problem. But, I really don't understand how you can honestly denigrate Honda's quality when, by your own admission, you bought a 12 1/2 year old, used outboard. Although the previous owner, I'm sure, told you that it had always been babied and NEVER grounded or hit a stump or a floater, the truth of the matter is, you have no way of knowing what it went through before you got it.

In my short little 1/2 century stay on the planet I've owned just about every brand of outboard there is, including the DREADED CHRYSLER. And, I've had trouble with pretty much every one of them at one time or another.

That's why I can say, with SUPREME confidence...You can't purchase a better quality outboard than a Honda.
As our illustrious President would say...PERIOD!
 
Easy with the comments. I had a honda odyssey with less than 60 miles that needed a 4k transmission....no trailer hitch. Hondas are great but they to have issues just like every manufacturer. We actually just got a 2014 hybrid accord in the family - now there is a piece of technology.

from spending enough time talking to marinas and folks that have had them just like every motor they have issues and one issue appears to be their lower units. If you could see my flawless lower unit actually whole motor and then to see gear oil weeping out the middle part of the alloy....you would wonder too! In my non boat mechanical mind it's like having the frame break. I get when moving parts break not th general structure frame should be good for many many years IMO.

i am choosing to stick with Hondas issues but and am looking for opinions on a rewelded unit with new seals etc for 750k or new unit for 1700 k on a motor worth 3k
 
We have put 1000's of hours on 6 BF50's that live in the water on our charter boats. One of them has a crack in the cav plate that looks like a weakness in the alloy, but the rest have been fine other than when fishing line in the seals has let water into them. One that chipped a gear due to water put a hole a bit like yours in the casing. We had that 'tigged' up with no issues. Should be absolutely fine for you to get it welded as long as the person doing it knows gearboxes and how to set them up.
 
Hi,

Thanks for the input, here is an update. I took the lower end to a local shop. They said get a 'new lower unit'...after a bit of back and forth they decided they would dremel it a bit and then us some jb weld. They did drain the oil and there was no signs of metal shavings etc.

You can see the jb weld in the picture - I put it back together a month or so ago and probably have 10-15 hrs on it...so far no sign of any oil. The guy w the dreml said he kept finding new little 'air bubbles' - who knows....
boat.jpg
 
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A Professional Marine repair shop fixed it with a Dremel & JB Weld!! WOW! I gotta know how much you paid these "professionals" to hack up your casing for you!!
 
saltydogsc....welcome to the forum although, I gotta say, you have a funny way of introducing yourself!

ANYWHO, you may have noticed that they DID suggest a new case to him but he obviously declined and, instead, did as he wished.
Which was...made it stop leaking. What's your BEEF with the "CUSTOMER'S ALWAYS RIGHT" rule?

As a "PROFESSIONAL" (and I will compare notes on talent, training and ability with ANYONE) I have done many projects in ways that I did not necessarily agree with or recommend but, in the interest of CUSTOMER SATISFACTION, preference AND budget....we did it their way.

One thing I learned over a career of nearly 40 years working on everything that MOVED on land and sea is that YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH SUCCESS!

GDAY!
 
I will second jgmo - the shop didnt want to do it...but I wanted to try a hundred dollar fix vs the 1800 for a lower end. Murphy's law would have kicked in once I bought the new unit and I would have found a rock or a rope...

I will keep my eye on it but the shop said it may very well last 'forever'.

The honda motor has been excellent - this is obviously a blip.

This forum has been very helpful.

thanks

btw - I did find a few used lower ends but they looked beat compared to mine and they wanted 900 bucks....
 
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