1989 85 HP Force

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum and have little knowledge about my outboard but learning quick about it. I hate to over whelm you all, but I really need some help. To start I can't find the serial or model number anywhere. The tag sticker only says VOID, VOID, VOID. I think it's an 1989 because that's what's on the title. Here are my problems: It starts right up when launching off the trailer. After running to earthier the dock or fishing spot once I shut down, it has a hard time to restart ( motor warmed up or cold ). It takes several cranks and once it starts I have to quickly go to almost full throttle to keep it running. At full throttle it feels sluggish and doesn't feel 100% ( At times it runs great and at times it doesn't and the throttle is in the same position). I have had the boat for two years. It's a 20' Beachcomber Pontoon. When I bought it the compression was at 130-132 psi. and ran great. The carbs had been rebuilt (carb kit). This is what I have done so far: Change plugs, primer bulb(attwood from Wal-Mart), reset air fuel mix screw, reset carb throttle linkage for all three to be equal, checked timing, (Note on timing. I was checking it running. It was way off. I have seen videos and read up on the timing. I cannot get the timing into spec due to I run out of adjustment and the throttle tower shaft hits the gear shift arm also.) I do not have a tach on this motor. I'm not even sure this motor is for this boat. I do believe and feel that the motor stills has life and plenty of power. I'm just not sure how to go about adjusting everything such as throttle cables and timing. I also feel a misfire but I can't find it. I read about changing the spark plug wire end to automotive style instead of that spring style. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for helping. I use this boat in the DFW area. Lake Lewisville if that helps or means anything.

Check to see if the flywheel key is sheared : It can be sheared and the motor still run. Alfredo rough.

Thanks, I checked it. and it is good.

Do another comp test.
Then check the fuel pump diaphragm.
Any water on the plugs?
One plug clean/ or no carbon or not as much as the other cylinders?
If you can't adjust the timing? Then your doing something wrong???
To figure out the year, take the power pack, coil assy. off.
Under there on the block is a foundry stamp with the year in the middle.

Thanks guy's. Here is want I have found. I rechecked the key for the flywheel since my last outing. Yes the key has broke and damaged the flywheel. Before my last ride a few days ago the key was good. Not sure if I caused it.
Water was not found in the plugs, just fuel.
#3 (bottom) plug and cylinder has more fuel than the other two.
The number I have found on the block are:
658746 located above the fuel pump under power pack. (possible 1987?)
M600329 located near #3 spark plug.
498167 located between carb 1 and 2.
498150-1 located under flywheel.
As far as the timing! Not sure what I could be doing wrong. Do the throttle and drive cable play a part in this adjustment?
I need to fix the flywheel before I can test the compression again.

Shift/ throttle cable have no affect on timing.
I believe on the top cyl. under the pack assy. there is a foundry stamp.
In the center of the stamp is the year of manufacture.
The stamp is round.
If the key's sheared or screwed up you can't set the timing.
The timing: the plugs need to be taken out and grounded, the throttle all the way forward.
The pics are a wire setup to ground the plugs.
Sent you a PM.

Thanks. Jerry PM sent.

Ok found some new parts. I will be replacing the fuel pump diagram and gaskets, gaskets for the lower carb and check float level, All fuel lines. I'll post the update once I'm done.

I've found the stamp on the motor. It's an 1988 85HP force. I still don't know what model number it is.

The only thing you really need is the year.
The difference in model#'s is very tiny changes.
You wouldn't be able to tell by looking at them.
Changes as small as changing the wire connectors warrant a model change.
The hard parts are all the same. The impeller, the plugs etc. are all the same.

Jerry thanks for that info. on finding the year. Once the flywheel arrives I'll continue to work on it and try and get that timing correct.

So here is the latest. I got all the new parts in. Recheck compression 130-135psi on all three. Spark also check out good. Fuel filter filled up with in 3-4 cranks, so the pumps good. Now back to setting the timing.

Make sure that you ground the plug wires.
Remove the plugs, Open the throttle all the way.

I started to check timing today. I removed all plugs and then snapped plugs back into the plug boot and grounded the plugs. This way I can check the spark and it's strength. With throttle wide open as well. My first problem is the new (used) flywheel has different timing marks( it has two marks about 2 inched apart)( not sure what degrees the marks are). My old flywheel has four marks. (3 of them are about 1\8 in. apart and the 4th mark about 2in. away)( single mark is 0 and top dead center then the 3 are 32 30 28 degree marks, is this correct?)
The new (used) flywheel marks don't line up to the old FW. So I copied the marks from the old to new.
Now when cranking the motor I see the right side mark of the new FW at the timing tab and I cannot adjust that mark to the tab mark. Thanks for all the help in advance.

Jerryjerry05 said:

Make sure that you ground the plug wires.
Remove the plugs, Open the throttle all the way.

Click to expand...

Does the plug wire have to be grounded directly? Or can I ground the spark plug and have the spark plug in the boot so I can also see the spark?

Ok I tried the plug wire direct to ground and it didn't work. Also I felt like I was doing something wrong. Me talking to myself I say this can't be this complicated. I move my timing light to the bottom spark plug wire and cranked. Well SOB there is the timing mark on top of the timing tab mark on the block. So my new question is? The bottom cylinder #1 and top cylinder #3 and of course the middle cylinder #2????
I'll be taking it to the lake tomorrow after work and let you all know how it goes..

No the top is #1
You have the throttle pushed all the way forward?
The timing marks on the flywheel. They are the 3 slash marks.

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chry...iming-75-150-chrysler-early-force-431021.html
Go here to get help in timing.

Ok top is #1. Yes throttle is all the way forward. And the new FW didn't have the 3 marks so I lined up both FW's and copied the marks. Now when cranking the marks are no where near the timing mark on the block. Thanks for the link I'm going to read it now.

I read up on the link and I 've synced all 3 carbs, I just don't know what my RPM's are due to no tachometer. So what's a good tachometer to buy and where for this Force outboard? Thanks

You have the throttle fully advanced?
The plugs out and grounded?
I believe Teleflex has tachs for the Force.
It HAS to be for the 20 pole tach.
You can try posting on that other forum to see where others buy tachs.

I read up on tiny tach. They look like what I could use right about now. Yes throttle is fully advance (forward). Plugs are out and grounded also. I went back to look over everything again and rechecked the timing. At cranking, the FW marks are way off. so far the adjustment runs outs. I'm still trying to figure this out before I send it to a shop due to there $100 hour fee.

Well I took it out to the lake to run it. It wouldn't start at all. I check and check things, recheck all the carbs, fuel lines and clamps. After and 1 1/2 hours I just went back home. I'm going to start over and recheck everything again. Am I wasting my time going to the lake to start the motor in the water or are the rabbit ears good enough?

On the muffs if you've got enough water pressure.
Or in a DEEP bucket.
At least 2-3 inches OVER the cavitation plate.

Ok, I went to recheck the spark, comp., and fuel filter. everything checks good. I tried starting it with the muffs and didn't, but it started to backfire when cranking (loud). So I removed all 3 carbs to check the bowls and floats. They all look good as well, not clogged or sticking. I check the measurement on the float levels just for kicks and found all 3 different. top = .641", mid = .675", bot = .630 Is this correct?
Here is a photo of the timing adjustment screw, Does it look correct?

Well after a few day of looking everything over and reinstalling everything back to what it was. When cranking the motor it will not start and it will back fire out the exhaust. any ideas on what to do next? Thanks in advance.

Back firing could mean the flywheel key's sheared.
Take the flywheel off and turn it upside down.
Compare it to the old one.
See if the timer(center) matches the old?

The key is still good. The used flywheel I purchased was the same size in diameter and teeth count. But when lining up the key slots(pointing at 12 O'clock) the timing marks are different. Also the new one only has two marks about 2 inches apart and the damaged one has three all next to each other.

Does it matter that there different?

Does the flywheel control the spark?

I will take a photo also.

The wheel has a magnet/timer where it mounts on the top of the crank.
I'm wondering if I sent the wrong wheel?
I might have grabbed the wrong one?

Ok. I think the FW is the problem. I'll take photos of it today and post them later. Thanks

Here is the photo. Yes the Timer/Magnet are different. 180 degrees off.